When is Satan bound?

[Eloy Craft]

BaB2, I highlighted part of your text. Revelation 11:11-12 shows the two witnesses being resurrected back to life. But not it is not the resurrection/rapture of 1Thess4:15-18.

What does the resurrection of the two witnesses martyred by the beast show? It shows them who sadly will be martyred by the beast during the great tribulation will be resurrected.

The resurrection of the tribulation saints martyred for not worshiping the beast, nor taking his mark, nor worshiping his image, is in Revelation 20:4-6, called the first resurrection, as there is a second universal type for all the remaining dead resurrection later on at the end of the millennium.

Hi Doug. What do you make of these Saints? I think they bested the beast too. No?

Matthew 27; 50-53

50 Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.

 

[Douggg]

Hi Doug. What do you make of these Saints? I think they bested the beast too. No?

Matthew 27; 50-53

50 Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Eloy, I think they were probably like Lazarus, to verify that Jesus has the power to resurrect.

 

[BABerean2]

Eloy, I think they were probably like Lazarus, to verify that Jesus has the power to resurrect.

It may also have been a foreshadow of what will occur at "the time of the judgment of the dead" found in Revelation 11:18, which was described by Christ in John 5:27-30.


2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

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[BABerean2]

BaB2, I highlighted part of your text. Revelation 11:11-12 shows the two witnesses being resurrected back to life. But not it is not the resurrection/rapture of 1Thess4:15-18.

What does the resurrection of the two witnesses martyred by the beast show? It shows them who sadly will be martyred by the beast during the great tribulation will be resurrected.

The resurrection of the tribulation saints martyred for not worshiping the beast, nor taking his mark, nor worshiping his image, is in Revelation 20:4-6, called the first resurrection, as there is a second universal type for all the remaining dead resurrection later on at the end of the millennium.

You must have skipped over the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15.

This is the point in time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".
How long is "forever"?

In Revelation 10:7 we find that the "mystery" is finished at the 7th trumpet.

Shortly after we find "the time of the judgment of the dead", with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18. Christ described the event in John 5:27-30.

If you would quit attempting to force the text of scripture to fit your man-made doctrine, you could accept the text for what it says.

The Book of Revelation is clearly not in chronological order, since Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19.

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[Eloy Craft]

Eloy, I think they were probably like Lazarus, to verify that Jesus has the power to resurrect.

Doug, I think if they were like Lazarus they would have remained with their relatives on earth until they died again. I do think it was about assurance for the believers though. Also a witness for the Jews of the reality of resurrection since most of them believed in it already.

The gifts He brought to Hades. I guess many had paid that last penny and got their get out of jail card..

 

[Douggg]

Doug, I think if they were like Lazarus they would have remained with their relatives on earth until they died again. I do think it was about assurance for the believers though. Also a witness for the Jews of the reality of resurrection since most of them believed in it already.

The gifts He brought to Hades. I guess many had paid that last penny and got their get out of jail card..

Eloy, not arguing, but do you recall when Jesus was about to be arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for - and they said Jesus of Nazareth... and when Jesus answered I am "He", they fell backwards to the ground.

That's how powerful Jesus is, that they were moved by him saying his name. I am thinking the dead seen come out of the grave is similar. That Christ after His resurrection, it was so powerful, that there was residual effect.

The other reason I am thinking - like Lazurus as far as their bodies, the fact that they were recognized for who they were, leads me to think they were not in eternal bodies. We don't have enough information to say whether they stayed will relatives or not, or what became of them.

And you do make a good point about it being assurance though of the resurrection forthcoming.

 

[Douggg]

You must have skipped over the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15.

This is the point in time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".
How long is "forever"?

I am not skipping over Revelation 11:15. But I am also not skipping over Revelation 20. And the second half of the seven years - prophecies.

It is not that it is a single event with everything thing taking place at the very moment the 7th trumpet sounds.

Instead, when 7th trumpet sounds, the plan of taking the kingdoms of this world and placing them under dominion of the Kingdom of God, with Jesus ruling this earth - from this earth - goes into action. It is the start of the second half of the seven years; and it the takes the second half of the seven years to dismantled and destroy Satan's kingdom of Mystery Babylon the great, and to bind Satan up.

For thousands of years, the question of when the dead will be judged was speculated on. But Revelation 11:15 indicates it will be once Jesus is ruling over the earth. Which Jesus will be ruling over the earth, from Jerusalem during the millennium. And Revelation 20 makes clear the resurrection of the dead will be in two resurrections during his millennium rule upon this earth. One resurrection at the beginning, and a second resurrection at the end.

 

[BABerean2]

For thousands of years, the question of when the dead will be judged was speculated on. But Revelation 11:15 indicates it will be once Jesus is ruling over the earth. Which Jesus will be ruling over the earth, from Jerusalem during the millennium. And Revelation 20 makes clear the resurrection of the dead will be in two resurrections during his millennium rule upon this earth. One resurrection at the beginning, and a second resurrection at the end.

In other words you are interpreting the whole Bible through your premill interpretation of Revelation chapter 20.

That requires you to either ignore or explain away Revelation 11:18, and Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.

All false doctrines are revealed by the scripture which must be ignored to make it work.
They are doctrines of ignorance.

 

[Douggg]

In other words you are interpreting the whole Bible through your premill interpretation of Revelation chapter 20.

Yes, I believe in the 1000 year reign of Jesus here on this present earth following the 70th week.

 

[shilohsfoal]

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-5.htm

There is a resurrection, which surely is the second resurrection, described in Revelation 20:12-13 : this last is a general resurrection of the dead, small and great. There seems no adequate reason to affirm that this first resurrection, then, must be physical. Our notions of life and death are so circumscribed by the geography of earth, that we seldom give to the word "life" in our thoughts its true richness and fulness of meaning. We fail to remember that the faithful ones who live, because Christ lives, have the promise of the life that now is, as well as that which is to come; we forget that God is not God of the dead, but of the living.

Yes,there is a second resurreaction 1000 years after the first resurrection.
The saints who do not worship the beast ,or his image,and who are killed for thier testimony of Jesus are resurrected first.The rest of those who have died are not resurrected for another 1000 years.That is thesecond resurrection.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You did not answer the question.
What would you call it when a person is passed from death to life, as in John 5:24?

There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.

The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is the spiritual resurrection from the dead found in John 5:24. I was spiritually dead, and now I am alive, after being "born again" of the
Spirit of God. (John 3:1-16)

The second resurrection in John chapter 5 is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead found in John 5:27-30. The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:18.

The Apostle John recorded both John chapter 5 and Revelation chapter 20.

John saw "souls" at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Where are "souls" found?

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

So you are claiming to hhave been resurrected like Jesus .
Tell me.Were you beheaded as these saints were in this first resurrection?

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

 

[BABerean2]

So you are claiming to hhave been resurrected like Jesus .
Tell me.Were you beheaded as these saints were in this first resurrection?

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

You know I am not claiming any such thing.

You are pulling the old "Bait and Switch" strategy.

You still continue an attempt to ignore John 5:24.
Why don't you explain the verse for us?
If someone is spiritually passed from death unto life, what does that mean to you?

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[DavidPT]

You did not answer the question.
What would you call it when a person is passed from death to life, as in John 5:24?

There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.

The first resurrection in John chapter 5 is the spiritual resurrection from the dead found in John 5:24. I was spiritually dead, and now I am alive, after being "born again" of the
Spirit of God. (John 3:1-16)

The second resurrection in John chapter 5 is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead found in John 5:27-30. The timing of this event is found in Revelation 11:18.

The Apostle John recorded both John chapter 5 and Revelation chapter 20.

John saw "souls" at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Where are "souls" found?

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

Those of the first resurrection already rise and live again before those of the 2nd resurrection do. Therefore they don't do that twice, rise and live again, then later on, rise yet again and live yet again. Revelation 20 makes it perfectly clear that it is ONLY the rest of the dead who rise in the 2nd resurrection. Those of the first resurrection are not also those of the 2nd resurrection. If they were, they would not live again during the thousand years, they would remain dead like the rest of the dead remain dead during that time.

Initially there is one group of the dead, meaning everyone who are dead in their graves at the time, both good and bad. Out of this group some rise, the good who are in their graves, thus live again at the time, but some don't. These others are rest of the dead, the bad still remaining in their graves when just the good rise, meaning the first resurrection.

In order to make your doctrine work, you have to do it by not interpreting things in a consistent manner. If the 2nd resurrection is a bodily resurrection, then so must the first one be, thus interpreting things in a consistent manner, something which you are not doing in this case though. And we all know why. That's the only way you can get your doctrine to allegedly work.

 

[BABerean2]

In order to make your doctrine work, you have to do it by not interpreting things in a consistent manner.

I do not ignore "the time of the judgment of the dead" with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, and Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Timothy 4:1, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

How many passages do you have to ignore to interpret things "in a consistent matter"?

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[shilohsfoal]

You know I am not claiming any such thing.

You are pulling the old "Bait and Switch" strategy.

You still continue an attempt to ignore John 5:24.
Why don't you explain the verse for us?
If someone is spiritually passed from death unto life, what does that mean to you?

.

Keeping the verse in the context of the thread,Jesus is talking about the resurrection.

https://biblehub.com/john/5-28.htm


And please dont overlook what day Jesus said this.

 

[BABerean2]

Keeping the verse in the context of the thread,Jesus is talking about the resurrection.

https://biblehub.com/john/5-28.htm


And please dont overlook what day Jesus said this.

And the timing of the bodily resurrection, and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30 is found below.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Your Bible says the same thing.

.

 

[shilohsfoal]

And the timing of the bodily resurrection, and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30 is found below.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Your Bible says the same thing.

.

My ,howyou just love adding to the word of God.
Just had to throw your word "all" in there with Gods word.

 

[BABerean2]

My ,howyou just love adding to the word of God.
Just had to throw your word "all" in there with Gods word.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

That would be Christ's word, which is found above.

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[shilohsfoal]

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

That would be Christ's word, which is found above.

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Then that would have to be the second resurrection and not the ffirst.The first resurrection is only the martyrs who die during the tribulation.
The one who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

The rest of the dead are not raised till after the 1000 years are fulfilled.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-5.htm


That second resurrection would include all the rest.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-12.htm

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-13.htm

 

[BABerean2]

Then that would have to be the second resurrection and not the ffirst.The first resurrection is only the martyrs who die during the tribulation.
The one who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

The rest of the dead are not raised till after the 1000 years are fulfilled.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-5.htm


That second resurrection would include all the rest.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-12.htm

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-13.htm

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Cut all the above out of your Bible and then maybe you can make your interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 work.

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