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Look into this historically, if the information is available,Yet, no deception was intended.
Then there's the big deception of Gideon. And yes, in battle.There are some believers who might think that God approved of Rahab in lying; However, Rahab did not break the 9th Commandment and lie. She was using the art of war in protecting the interests of God's people. For she did not lie to protect herself or to cover up another sin or anything of that nature.
For in war time or in protecting your loved ones or God's people, a person can use the art of war to defend that which is good. This sometimes unfortunately involves deceiving and or eliminating your enemy; However, these things are not done out of selfish ambition, but they are done in order to preserve innocent lives or to protect the common good.
For the Hebrew midwives had lied to the Pharoah's servants to protect the innocent (Exodus 1).
And King David pretended he was crazy when he was not crazy in front of the enemy king of Gath named "Achish" (1 Samuel 21:10-15).
Also, Elisha deceived the enemy when they were blinded by lying about where he was taking them. (2 Kings 6:19)
In addition in Joshua 8:
Joshua himself went in battle against the city of Ai, they pretended that they were being defeated and they retreated. They weren’t being defeated—it was a trap. The Israelites deceived them.
Please take note that God told Joshua to lay an ambush for the army at Ai. If you were to read the chapter, this ambush involved deception. In other words, God was telling Joshua to deceive their enemies as a part of the art of war.
However, if a certain spirit was telling Joshua to lie so as to cover up a sin and or his own embarrassment or shame about something, then that would be a wrong spirit who was trying to make Joshua break the 9th Commandment.
Think of it this way. When a person selfishly takes their own life, it is considered suicide.
But when a person throws themselves in harm's way so as to save a life like a father pushing his son out of the way of a moving car (with him being hit), it is considered great love. This is what Jesus has done for us. He has died in our place so as to give us eternal life and salvation so as to spend eternity with Him and His good ways.
Side Note:
Oh, and one more thing. I would like to add that believers today are not under the Old Covenant anymore. God is not telling His people to go to war with certain nations, and use deception as a part of the art of war, etc. Believers today are under the New Covenant with a different set of laws or commands that involves love and non violence. There is no command in the New Testament that gives believers today a loophole for lying to people. If a believer is in a difficult situation whereby they are forced to lie so as to protect a loved one today, I believe that they will repent of such a sin (i.e. confess it to the Lord Jesus Christ). For how often does a person run into this kind of scenario? If they repeatedly do so, then they need to stand up for what is good and right and trust in God's good ways. It is still always wrong to lie out of our own selfish motives and ambitions. There was a time and place for such things in the past, but we believers today are called to be imitators of Jesus Christ. We follow a higher calling of love and goodness. For do you think Jesus would lie to protect life? Maybe a play on words, but not a bold face lie.
For example: If I was hiding Jews during the time of the war, and Germans broke into my house, and they asked me, "Are there any Jews here?"
Instead of freezing up like a deer in headlights thinking about a "yes" or a "no", I could reply,
"Do you see any Jews around here?" "Please feel free to look around."
...
Did Jesus ever lie? I want to have the wisdom that Jesus had to be discrete and know how to answer every man truthfully without being entrapped.Is there ever a time that being dishonest is actually ok to God?
I ask because a few times in scripture we see very godly men being deceitful and it not being recorded as wrong. In fact a couple times God seems to bless them in spite of it.
Abraham when he went before Pharoah and Abimelek. Isaac before Abimelek. Jacob with his brother Esau, several times. Joseph when he acted as if he didn't know his brothers, gave them back their silver and said he hadn't, then set up Benjamin with the Silver Cup. David acting mentally ill in front of Achish
What about making silly noises then blaming them on a friend or family member?
Or for a more serious matter, hiding someone to save their life? Or lying so you don't hurt someone's feelings?
So is there ever a time that being dishonest is ok?
IOW, when is a lie not sin?
Did Jesus ever lie? I want to have the wisdom that Jesus had to be discrete and know how to answer every man truthfully without being entrapped.
Then there's the big deception of Gideon. And yes, in battle.
I know how God is and if I was there that day, I would have woken up that day with a sore back. I would not have been able to bent so would have been forced to pull the water to my mouth. Then I would have been chosen and my sore back would go away. See how He is?
This is an excellent example.
If a Christian German hid Jews in his secret basement for the duration of WWII and lied to suspicious Nazi officers about it, which would have saved the lives of several people, how on earth could anyone think that such a lie is sinful?
YesSo perhaps if I lie to save life that is ok, but to lie to avoid guilt or be treacherous is wrong?
AgreedLying isn’t sinful when it’s meant to save others from harm.
YesSo it is more about the intent then rather than the action?
That is what Rahab did, and James explicitly praises her specifically for her lie.
When someone (a religious leader or other person) lies to someone saying they want to save that person, or prevent harm or accident or illness,Agreed
I'm glad to hear that.But deception is not sinful in every instance
I was referring to "saving their life" (physically) not in the terms of salvation. I agree about a false doctrine/gospel or other information etc.When someone (a religious leader or other person) lies to someone saying they want to save that person, or prevent harm or accident or illness,
and they really really really "intend" (believe) they are helping,
but
unwittingly in reality are condemning them (i.e. like with a false gospel, or other false information/ doctrine/ idea) ,
that is sinful.
Then there's the stellar record called the Zodiac which speaks of a virgin woman who has a child(Virgo--late august, early September). A Lamb that is slaughtered(Aries--Easter). And His return as the Lion of Judah(Leo--late July, early August). That story has been told even before Adam and it is still unfolding!You may enjoy this:
God's Undercover AgentSource:
By Rev. Darren Edgington.
As a young child, the Mission Impossible television programs tantalized me. I couldn’t wait to watch the next nail-biting episode. I can recall the introductory music, and can visualize the puff of smoke as the mysterious tape self-destructed in five seconds. There was something delightfully intriguing about the life of a secret agent.
Our best efforts to portray the mystery of espionage cannot ever supercede God’s story. The unveiling of God’s undercover agent makes the best episode of Mission Impossible quite trivial.
The superstar of God’s story is of course Jesus of Nazareth. Those who came into contact with him often wondered out loud, “What manner of man is this?” *He appeared ordinary. But in reality, he was far from it.
In many Mission Impossible episodes a spy would peel off a fake mask. *Beneath they were really someone else. Jesus’ identity is far more mysterious.
In the fullness of time the Bible declares that the eternal Son of God took to himself a complete human nature, not a mere mask. In the manger in Bethlehem was what appeared to be just another baby. But Jesus was more than meets the eye. *God and man – the perfect union of two natures in one person - now that is some mystery!
God’s secret agent veiled his unique identity throughout his life. He even spoke to the masses in parabolic forms of speech so that, “though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand” (Luke 8:10). His Father also participated in the cover-up, hiding things from the wise and intelligent (Luke 10:21).
Frequently after performing some jaw-dropping miracle, Jesus stated that his identity must remain a secret. He repeated this order at one critical juncture. He had drawn his disciples aside to inquire about their opinion regarding his identity. Peter correctly asserted that the Jesus was the long-expected Jewish Messiah, the Christ. It is noteworthy that Jesus immediately “warned them not to tell anyone about him” (Mark 8:30).
Put yourself in one of the disciple’s sandals for a moment. Can you imagine knowing with certainty that Jesus was the Christ that everyone had been waiting for, then not being able to tell anyone? *This is front-page news! Why must they be silent?
At that time Jesus began to unravel the purpose of his undercover operation, but only to the inner circle. His mission to Jerusalem requires a special task: “He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this” (Mark 8:31-32).
Jesus sequestered the disciples on two more occasions and explained the details of God’s mysterious plan. It is obvious from the text that they remained in the dark.
Why was Jesus so careful to retain this undercover status?
The people wanted the messianic king to deliver them from Roman tyranny (and the disciples all wanted a prominent cabinet position!). The problem was that they had predetermined the nature of his mission. Jesus would not allow any man to dictate his role. He was God’s agent. He would not be deterred from God’s mission.
Jesus’ words in Mark 10:45 define why he came: “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
What the disciples failed to grasp is that the expected messianic Lion is also the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 – the Lamb of God who is pierced for our transgressions. The eternal Son went undercover so he could lay down his life on Calvary. *The ransom price for many had to be paid. *Prevailing misconceptions must not be allowed to keep him from fulfilling his mission.
After the resurrection and the Holy Spirit’s empowerment at Pentecost, the formerly confused disciples proclaimed Jesus’ identity and mission with vigor. And what was central in their message? Jesus Christ, and him crucified. No cross . . . no Christianity.
The undercover agent had a dual identity. The royal Lion is also the pierced Lamb. What an intriguing mystery!
LightHouseontheHill
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Then there's the stellar record called the Zodiac which speaks of a virgin woman who has a child(Virgo--late august, early September). A Lamb that is slaughtered(Aries--Easter). And His return as the Lion of Judah(Leo--late July, early August). That story has been told even before Adam and it is still unfolding!
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