When is it gonna be enough?

[HisPrincess710]

The most angry of all the Old Testament prophets, Jeremiah, singles out one thing the Israelites keep doing that God finds repulsive: they sacrifice their children. The Israelites are sacrificing them to their much loved traditional gods, but God makes it clear that He’s not a fan of the practice for any beliefs, including, presumably, that of the sanctity of the Second Amendment. Yet many Christians choose Second Amendment-worship over the safety of their children — and others’ children — everyday.

Jeremiah has a warning for his countrymen: change the way you’re doing things, he says, or the place you live will get a new name: the Valley of Slaughter. That’s a pretty apt description of that Florida high school on Valentine’s Day.

 

[Invalidusername]

To everyone who wants to know why I'm so passionate about this...

I have a niece who just turned three. I have a nephew who will be seven in this year. I have another nephew who just celebrated his first birthday and a third on the way.

I don't want to have to wake up or come home or receive a call to hear someone came in and shot them at school, in public, wherever. They may not be my children, but they're the children of my brother and sister. When someone you love hurts that badly, it will hurt you just as much.

I'm sick and tired of all the back and forth yelling instead of putting aside politics and talking about how we can protect innocent people. There's a difference between gun violence and gun warfare. People who do not have any military training, people who are ordinary civilians, should not be able to purchase military style weapons.

So what if knives, bats, and cars also kill? When doing it with a gun, you do it from a distance, you detach yourself, you become desensitized, you don't get any blood on you. Cars are not consciously designed to kill. There are kitchen knives and baseball bats. Guns by their very nature require you to view the world through a lethal lens to the point where you might murder someone who's just reaching for their phone.

I'm not saying stop the manufacturing of guns. I'm saying we need to take responsibility. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over again. Neither more guns nor less guns are the answer.

Here’s one thing all Evangelicals — and Christians of every stripe, actually — hold to be true: humans are sinful. They cannot stop being sinful. They will always be sinful. This is why, according to the Christian gospel, the Father deployed his Son and that Son died; to take the rap for sin. If any human could have found a way to live a perfect life, then that sacrifice would not have been necessary. The sinfulness of all humanity is one of Christianity’s foundational beliefs.

Given that, why do so many Christians, particularly those on the right, so steadfastly oppose any kind of meaningful gun control? It’s true that guns don’t kill people on their own. People kill people. But since Christians believe that people cannot be perfected this side of Glory, why not limit the harm we fallen people are able to do? We can only change one side of the equation, and that’s the gun side.

Compare the Christian attitude to guns to the Christian attitude to marriage. It is not in the nature of mammals to be monogamous, and yet churches support marriage, offer couples counseling, discourage the watching of pornography or the solicitation of prostitutes or the secret affair. Churches acknowledge people are not perfect, so they endorse the introduction of some guardrails to help them do less damage to those around them. They promote some limitations on freedom to stop people getting hurt. Yes, the Lord said go forth and multiply, but Christian people do not then take that to mean you have the right to have children with whomever you wish at any time, after a three-day waiting period.

Or let’s look at the Christian perspective on giving. Traditionally, Christians believe in the tithe. That is, they give up 10% of their income to the church or some godly purpose. The thinking behind this is that since everything humans have comes from God, they are merely returning to God what is God’s. To hoard money is to rely on something other than God. To give it away is to acknowledge that God is the ultimate provider. So why do Christians rely on guns for protection at all times? Do Christians believe guns are stronger than God?

Why not then give up even 10% of the access to guns — say, just the semi-automatics?

Even so, I still have faith in the Christian God, but I've lost my faith in Evangelicals. I'm neither left nor right, conservative or liberal. I radically disagree with both parties. Politics has become way too toxic. But this is something no one can stay silent on. Not when innocent lives are being threatened.

God loves children, he loves the brokenhearted, he loves those in suffering and mourning. Why can't we?

Yes, God is merciful but He isn't a sensitive crybaby when people die. In fact God knew exactly what was going to happen and He ALLOWED it to happen. God probably had a good reason for letting this happen. Stop projecting your own worldview on God.

 

[timewerx]

Prevent sexual immorality, prevent bullying, prevent favoritism, prevent abuse / harassment of all kinds in schools to solve shooting issues.

If you only take away the guns, people will only resort to knife / machete / acid and even bomb attacks.

Solve the problem at the root cause to make schools a safe place not just physically, but mentally, and spiritually as well.

 

[Hank77]

"Bigot", in this usage, is a word that means "person who says things I don't like but know I can't refute". Note how she calls me a bigot, but then goes on to say ACTUALLY bigoted stupidity like "religion is bad for society" and "religion says "us vs them", which is mad Dick Dawkins kind of anti-theist nonsense:

Religion says "the good people are in and the bad people are out"... you mean, like how you said I, the Big Bad Bigot, am OUT, and you refuse to associate with me?

Yeah, it's that old saying: If you want to know what a progressive is up to, just listen carefully to what she accuses her opposition of doing.

I wouldn't call you a bigot but I object to you blaming single moms for violent sons. She didn't get pregnant all on her own and she wasn't the one who abandoned their son or daughter.

 

[HisPrincess710]

Remember you are talking about the same God that commanded the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, livestock, and etc. in the countries that Israel defeated.

Yes, God is merciful but He isn't a sensitive crybaby when people die. In fact God knew exactly what was going to happen and He ALLOWED it to happen. God probably had a good reason for letting this happen. Stop projecting your own worldview on God.

Stop forcing your worldview on mine. God is sovereign, but he doesn't control every minute thing in our lives. He hates ALL loss of life, whether innocent or guilty. And those passages about warfare have been wildly misinterpreted and used to promote things like the crusades.

The Day of Reckoning is coming when God is going to ask all of us if we loved him. That involves protecting and loving the innocent, not telling them "everything happens for a reason." By that logic, we should just let "those" people die and not do anything.

The bible calls Satan the god of this world. He is the reason these mass shootings are happening. God values our free will more than his complete sovereignty.

 

[HisPrincess710]

Stop forcing your worldview on mine. God is sovereign, but he doesn't control every minute thing in our lives. He hates ALL loss of life, whether innocent or guilty. And those passages about warfare have been wildly misinterpreted and used to promote things like the crusades.

The Day of Reckoning is coming when God is going to ask all of us if we loved him. That involves protecting and loving the innocent, not telling them "everything happens for a reason." By that logic, we should just let "those" people die and not do anything.

The bible calls Satan the god of this world. He is the reason these mass shootings are happening. God values our free will more than his complete sovereignty.

This is just one of the many reasons I can no longer in good conscience call myself a Christian. I love the Christian God, but I refuse to accept this label, given we live in an age of #MeToo, hostility towards blacks and gays, and all these school shootings. Clearly evangelicals care more about power than about God.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This is just one of the many reasons I can no longer in good conscience call myself a Christian. I love the Christian God, but I refuse to accept this label, given we live in an age of #MeToo, hostility towards blacks and gays, and all these school shootings. Clearly evangelicals care more about power than about God.

They finally learned how to use the Left's playbook. About time !

 

[Invalidusername]

This is just one of the many reasons I can no longer in good conscience call myself a Christian. I love the Christian God, but I refuse to accept this label, given we live in an age of #MeToo, hostility towards blacks and gays, and all these school shootings. Clearly evangelicals care more about power than about God.

Oh boy. This explains a lot.

 

[Hank77]

more guns is NOT the solution re schools


there are teachers who have left their gun in the restroom and another teacher who shot his gun off at school injuring a student

Source? Or more information so I can google it.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

How are all these nut jobs (or rather people with evil hearts) able to get these guns? Are they just lying around waiting to be picked up? Just upholding the second amendment is not going to make these shootings go away. I agree, we need better law enforcement and mental health facilities. But we also need to keep out of these people's hands weapons that can be easily converted into semi-automatics.

Guns are never more important than people.

HisPrincess, yes, it be easy to get a gun and with the internet it's become a go to place to not only get connected...you can also find videos online that show you how to make a gun... use can make your own gun from plastic, cardboard/wood that fires real bullets. Prior to internet such information was available at the library and or local book stores...if you lived near a "Jump Street" you could get a gun for $20 bucks or a cartoon of smokes/or weed, even a case of beer...it's still like that where I live.
They can pass all the laws and ban guns...there just too many out there who are willing to either get you a gun or make one for you.

The church know there be evil people and such... many churches be doing something... years ago the DC sniper had people scared to pump gas and there was those from a certain church who went and volunteered to pump gas for people at the gas stations and other christians took up watch...there also be christians and veterans getting training so they can serve as guards at schools and churches.
There were christians at the school shooting in Florida that took bullets to save other students lives...let's not forget the ones who made the ultimate sacrifice to prevent loss of life.

Let's not forget the countless christians who serve as community watch around
area schools.
There be christians who reached out to help the families whose children were
killed, wounded/and or disabled...helping them with hospital, funeral, long term
care, and counseling costs.
Prayers and thoughts be with the families who lost they children and there also
be the christians who be in there doing whatever that needs to be done.
We also help out financially, prayerfully and have two at risk young people
we be keeping watch over.

 

[expos4ever]

Let me asks you this. If you were a criminal and meant harm would you rather go to a place where people were more likely to be able to defend themselves or less likely?

This line of reasoning simply has no merit. The data is clear: most people who live in free nations are safer than you are. So it is clearly possible to organize a free democratic society where people do not need guns to defend themselves.

 

[expos4ever]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed

Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[mama2one]

Source? Or more information so I can google it.

both heard on the news; sorry don't know the dates heard

 

[OzSpen]

The first high school shooting here in the US was Columbine. I was in high school then. 30 years prior, when my dad was in high school, it was not uncommon for them to have rifle clubs. There once existed a US where schools could literally hand the guns to the students and everything was fine. I'm always curious to ask people their thoughts: what changed?

Cowboy,

Proliferation of guns operated by sinful human beings who place no limit on what they do with guns.

It is moral relativism in action, i.e. there are no universal absolute values. You do what's right for you and I'll do what's right for me. If that means slaughtering 10 students and injuring 10 others at the Santa Fe High School, Santa Fe TX, we have a demonstration of this ethic.

There are so many other consequences that flow from moral relativism. Think about it!

Oz

 

[Invalidusername]

This line of reasoning simply has no merit. The data is clear: most people who live in free nations are safer than you are. So it is clearly possible to organize a free democratic society where people do not need guns to defend themselves.

 

[Anguspure]

Let me asks you this. If you were a criminal and meant harm would you rather go to a place where people were more likely to be able to defend themselves or less likely?

On your reasoning I can hardly conceive why New Zealand with its background of fierce warrior culture that is expressed in some of the hardest gangs on the planet is not overun by gun totting criminals. Especially when we consider that we have one of the higher per-capita (hunting and sport) gun ownership stats in the western world (currently placed at 21 on a list of 175 countries and number 10 in terms of western countries).
Doesn't really wash in the real world though does it?
The truth is that violence begets violence and a world in which people do not carry weapons to defend themselves is a far safer place to be in than the alternative.

 

[expos4ever]

Seriously, though. In the spirit of the OP, how much is too much? If 100 children were laid in their graves 80 years too soon ever day in a school shooting, would that be enough to convince you to unclench your hands from your precious guns?

 

[Invalidusername]

On your reasoning I can hardly conceive why New Zealand with its background of fierce warrior culture that is expressed in some of the hardest gangs on the planet is not overun by gun totting criminals. Especially when we consider that we have one of the higher per-capita (hunting and sport) gun ownership stats in the western world.
Doesn't really wash in the real world though does it?
The truth is that violence begets violence and a world in which people do not carry weapons to defend themselves is a far safer place to be in than the alternative.

 

[expos4ever]

View attachment 229095

Very funny.

Cherry-picking:

Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias.[1][2] Cherry picking may be committed intentionally or unintentionally. This fallacy is a major problem in public debate.

It may turn out that I am mistaken in my claim, although I doubt it. Remember that I restricted my claim to free nations. About half the countries in your chart are not free.

But it is very hard to believe that you are not aware that you are cherry-picking data to make your case. And that is deceptive, and therefore unethical.

 

[Toro]

Guns are a tool nothing more. If a man uses a chainsaw to cut down a tree and it lands on your car/house..... are you going to blame the chainsaw for cutting down your tree or are you going to go after the man and demand he make it right?

Guns aren't going away, even if you ban them by law...... criminals dont follow laws, otherwise they wouldn't be criminals. If criminals followed laws they would obey the law of not murdering people and then again that would cover the need of gun laws...... so if they arent willing to obey the "do not murder" law..... what are the odds they will suddenly respect the lesser law of "dont own a gun"....

Fix society, you fix the problem...... but since we as a society want to blame the tools rather than those wielding the tools and the hearts that our broken society produces continues to produce more and more hearts full of malice and anger..... it will continue to decline, more needless laws will be created only to fail until humanity has sunk lower than the days of Noah.

Til then the left and the right will be blaming each other while trying to push their own selfish agendas while more and more innocent lives are traded for said agenda all while calling it a "tragedy".