When is it gonna be enough?

[dogs4thewin]

major drug crisis we have now is due to overprescription of addictive drugs by physicians
even back when I was a teen, one of the women I babysat for had back problems and got addicted on pain killers
she was a Christian, too

I did not say it was or was not due to anything in particular. I said if banning things worked we would not have nearly as many drugs. The safest cities would be those with high gun control ( yet those cities have some of the highest rates of homicide in the country. For that matter alcohol may still be illegal and that lasted not even 20 years. I have also noticed that shootings happen in gun free zones not in places where good people are likely to be armed.

 

[mama2one]

The safest cities would be those with high gun control .

depends on what sites one gets their statistics from

have seen charts showing that states with most gun control ARE safer
this was when part of another forum/same type of discussion
those for gun control have the statistics to prove it works
those against have statistics to prove otherwise

conclusion: can't rely on statistics unless you analyze and see exactly how they are obtained, what is in the numbers, who is collecting numbers, and if that agency/group proven reliable

 

[dogs4thewin]

depends on what sites one gets their statistics from

have seen charts showing that states with most gun control ARE safer
this was when part of another forum/same type of discussion
those for gun control have the statistics to prove it works
those against have statistics to prove otherwise

conclusion: can't rely on statistics unless you analyze and see exactly how they are obtained, what is in the numbers, who is collecting numbers, and if that agency/group proven reliable

As it relates to cigarettes it is interesting to note that the VAST majority of new smokers are under the legal age. The fact that they have to get someone to buy it for them does not seem to change that. Same with alcohol. I am 26 ( of legal age) suppose I went into a package store and the ONLY alcohol I purchased I intended to give my 20 year old cousin J. Well, J is not in the store ( often if she was they would request her ID. Once I purchase the booze and leave they have no control over what I do with the booze and if I allow underage kids to drink it. Same with cigarettes I buy a pack of cigarettes (lawfully with my ID and say this time I give them to my 16 year old cousin, K well, I lawfully bought the cigarettes after that they really cannot really control if I turn around and give them to an underage person. Now, IF I get caught in either of those situations I CAN get in trouble, but unless the actually see me give them to the underage person (or in the case of alcohol the minor gets drunk and say causes damage there is really no way to prove that. Same with guns people will get them from the black market or in some cases from people ( sometimes who do not know the gun was stolen who do have the legally. Most of the recent shooters have been underage and/or otherwise not allowed to legally have a gun. What if instead of gun control we allowed people to carry EVERYWHERE ( with the exception of prisons and mental hospitals provided they passed a safety course and a shooting course ( testing to ensure they were actuate, and merely otherwise had TOUGHER penalties for those who committed gun crimes were felons ECT.

 

[mama2one]

Same with cigarettes I buy a pack of cigarettes (lawfully with my ID and say this time I give them to my 16 year old cousin, K well, I lawfully bought the cigarettes after that they really cannot really control if I turn around and give them to an underage person..

cigarettes, drugs, alcohol problems are NOT equal to kids being shot at school/mass shootings

fwiw, the show "what would u do?" did a segment on underage kids asking people to buy them cigarettes or alcohol (forget which) but do remember person after person shook their head no as they went into store

 

[Aldebaran]

cigarettes, drugs, alcohol problems are NOT equal to kids being shot at school/mass shootings

But the ability of them being able to buy them are. So is the effectiveness of laws telling them what they can buy and at what age they can buy it.

 

[Archivist]

It still would not work. Number one there are so many of them and there is a black market ( which people WILL turn to ( they always have and always will and number two as PROOF of that recall that the Texas shooter actually used a sewed off shotgun ( which is illegal.)

Instead of just saying it won’t work and sitting around while more kids did, why don’t we give it a try and see what happens?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Instead of just saying it won’t work and sitting around while more kids did, why don’t we give it a try and see what happens?

because it has been SHOWN to not work both with guns and any number of other things it has been tried with.

 

[Archivist]

because it has been SHOWN to not work both with guns and any number of other things it has been tried with.

But it has worked in other countries such as Australia.

You are saying it didn’t work in the past so we shouldn’t ever try it again. I care to much about the lives of the young people to adopt that attitude.

 

[dogs4thewin]

But it has worked in other countries such as Australia.

I ssentially you are saying it didn’t work in the past so we shouldn’t ever try it again. I care to much about the lives of the young people to adopt that attitude.

What about the fact that most schools are already gun free zones and yet we have shootings in the schools. I propose the following instead Do NOT have schools be gun free zones rather allow people to carry who have passed a safety course and other requirements ( such as range time.) Note, I did NOT say that it should be MANDATORY for people to carry only that people who have met the requirements MAY carry. Additionally, what if instead of banning certain guns from people who will follow the law what if we had harsher PENALTIES ( such as mandatory prison sentences for those who commit weapons related crimes.

 

[Ringo84]

because it has been SHOWN to not work both with guns and any number of other things it has been tried with.

What, gun control? Source?

Here's a source for you: The research is clear: gun control saves lives
Ringo

 

[Archivist]

What about the fact that most schools are already gun free zones and yet we have shootings in the schools. I propose the following instead Do NOT have schools be gun free zones rather allow people to carry who have passed a safety course and other requirements ( such as range time.) Note, I did NOT say that it should be MANDATORY for people to carry only that people who have met the requirements MAY carry. Additionally, what if instead of banning certain guns from people who will follow the law what if we had harsher PENALTIES ( such as mandatory prison sentences for those who commit weapons related crimes.

As a professor, the last thing I want in my classroom are multiple students packing heat.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As a professor, the last thing I want in my classroom are multiple students packing heat.

Well, several states have it I KNOW Texas does and I KNOW GA does.

 

[dogs4thewin]

What, gun control? Source?

Here's a source for you: The research is clear: gun control saves lives
Ringo

How many people just change methods? In other words, people who want to do harm will that is why knife crime is up where there is few guns. Also, there is a second aspect to saving lives ( which i how often do guns in "good" hands prevent something from happening in the FIRST place?

 

[dogs4thewin]

As a professor, the last thing I want in my classroom are multiple students packing heat.

Why?

 

[mama2one]

( which i how often do guns in "good" hands prevent something fromhappening in the FIRST place?

and how did that work in Parkland?



did you read the article posted by Ringo?
enough said

 

[dogs4thewin]

and how did that work in Parkland?



did you read the article posted by Ringo?
enough said

I scanned it. As for how that worked at Parkland ho did what work?

 

[Ringo84]

How many people just change methods? In other words, people who want to do harm will that is why knife crime is up where there is few guns. Also, there is a second aspect to saving lives ( which i how often do guns in "good" hands prevent something from happening in the FIRST place?

Knife crime? Do you honestly think that if I wielded a knife and went on a rampage, I'd cause anywhere near as many casualties as if I wielded an automatic weapon?
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Also:
https://i.imgur.com/nnZE4eU.jpg

Credit to Ruben Bolling, one of the best editorial cartoonists.
Ringo

 

[Jay1971]

Came accross this today

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=157354614964596

 

[dogs4thewin]

Knife crime? Do you honestly think that if I wielded a knife and went on a rampage, I'd cause anywhere near as many casualties as if I wielded an automatic weapon?
Ringo

You can actually do quite a bit of damage with a knife and even more with a car ( which is becoming more common now). Again, people who mean harm will cause it one way or another and people who will not can be trusted with almost anything ( except bombs and the like.