When Exactly Is the Rapture?

[exodus19]

while you dance, around much is said that is of course, accurate and much which is again simply guess work.

all life that is not in God is in turbulence to some degree. truibulation may not be in western countries, but consider the world and the 3rd world and all the difficulties, can you sense tribulation?

consider all the plagues and pestilence and all the going ons in nature, can you feel the wrath, or at least see it?

do not think that the world is just you and me and these few internet chat rooms.

the world is filled with souls lost, to cultures of evil, deserts, wilderness, famine and war. Even america media, blinds the americans of what's really going on.

why does the world hate america soooooomuch?

now because of the people , but b/c of the leaders.

well there has to be a head and it so happens that this head can wail it's army, mouth and clout, like no other.

like a God, rev. repeats, the OT, Oh she sits a Queen amongst harlots and all the merchants and countries are having to cooperate, think on this .

see how the babylon of old is repeating.

now i now you are discussing the restrainer but what restrains except it be you, your self,

contain and contro yourself, maintain balance, keep sober, here God's Word, Will and Way. ie Path, there comes a time when you will have to decide your on fate and the path you want to follow,.

so who restrains you?

do i , does your wife, does the gove, do your peers, when you choose a course of action who is choosing/

who is restraining.?

to be counted worthy........what does it mean? what are you counted worthy by your words or by your actions?

though words are actions, what is more representative of your words or heart?

you can say love and faith all day long , right?

but are you worthy?

to escape what? from who and what?

born in sin , always remember the famous words born in sin, designated with all kinds of bodily characteristics, raised accordingly in corrupt cultures.

escape from what? escape from corruption, how corrupt? you tell me.

how corrupt is africa, any more than canada?

perhpaps there is more tribulation, but perhaps not , perhaps relative to ones personal feelings, according to their birth and customs and culture.

learn to step outside the self and look at yourself and look around.

so the end times are increasing in corruption, hear carefully from God's sons.

almost every day i get to speak to people one on one, people are hearing all the time.

not me but God, God speaks through if you become a transparent medium, you must free your spirit to be a conduit for God's love and perfect Word.
God does not think, nor say i think, God speaks and so do his sons.

several of you are still try to intellectualize times and God, but God is known through love, based in pure desire.

so liberation, is about removing self restraints and allowing God to flow.

remember, there are no jews, no christians, no hindu's. only if you look at people this way will they appear allready clothed and covered.

however since they are themsleves attached due to born in sin and filled with varying forms of idolatry, the end times you will be declothed from all these bodily designations and put on the

white garments of love of God. That is the perfect new spirit repeated throughout the Text and therein all your restraining habits will be removed from you.

first it takes faith, and then the transformation can take place.

it's up to you and you only how fast you shed all your coverings.

they are all in spirit, therefore purge your conscience, that implies cleanse your heart from all sin and sin desires, then all these details will be realized and you will no longer need to think, you will know.

red rev 3:18- 21 a few times, and here the voice of the Holy Spirit.

good am my friends

 

[bertie]

Gnight Bud...
Just Dont Go To Sleep Thinking That We Are Somehow Immune To The 3rd World Plagues And Famines.yes,we Been Blessed,no We Didnt Deserve It.yes,
We Deserve It Less Each Day.no It Wont Last For Ever....

 

[ross3421]

You are in error sir, this is part of the great Olivet Discourse and according to Matt 24:1; Mk. 13:1, they (Jesus and the disciples) were already outside of the temple. You better read that passage again.

Lu 20:1And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

Lu 21:1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

Lu 21:37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.

Lu 21:38And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

After this verse in chapter 20 the scene does not change until chapter 22. Clearly he was teaching in the temple.


Christ taught during the day in the temple to the people but went to the mount of Olives at night where he spoke with his disciples privately.

Mt 23:1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mt 23:39For I say unto you, Ye (multitude) shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mt 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple.

Mt 24:3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Sorry sir but you are the one which is in error. Regardless of when and with whom he spoke escape does not mean to be raptured.

Mark.

 

[Affinity]

According to Rev. 3.10, only those Christians who keep the word of His patience will be raptured before the Tribulation.

"Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev. 3.10).

When do we see the rapture? Before the trumpets start in Revelation 8.

"...stood before the throne" (Rev. 7.9).

This is a vision of the raptured ones from which they first commence to enter into 3rd heaven before the trumpets of the Tribulation.

When are the Christians who are "left" (Matt. 24.40-41) to be raptured?

"...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible..." (1 Cor. 15.52).

Do you see the picture of trumpets from the first rapture to the rapture at the 7th trumpet?

Lord may others see this truth also and stop arguing with each other. There ought to be noone here who will argue with this truth, so before posting please humble yourselves by the grace of God before.

The first quote was directed to that church at that time. To say it literally applies to all Christians is to ignore the historical context of that passage. As for the second quote (1 Cor. 15:52), that clearly coinsides with the first resurrection, which doesn't happen till after Christ's returns. Plain and simple. Any other added meaning applied to this passage is nothing more than an allegorization. Now, in regards to the plea you make at the end of your post, I find it to be a clear indication that your position on this subject is weak, do to a considerable lack of substantial scriptural proof, making it somewhat akin to wishful thinking.

 

[exodus19]

The first quote was directed to that church at that time. To say it literally applies to all Christians is to ignore the historical context of that passage. As for the second quote (1 Cor. 15:52), that clearly coinsides with the first resurrection, which doesn't happen till after Christ's returns. Plain and simple. Any other added meaning applied to this passage is nothing more than an allegorization. Now, in regards to the plea you make at the end of your post, I find it to be a clear indication that your position on this subject is weak, do to a considerable lack of substantial scriptural proof, making it somewhat akin to wishful thinking.

it appears that both of you are debate details here otherwise crossing over each other.

NOte at the 6th seal you have mention of the 144,000 which is the same mentioned at 14:3 those not defiled with the heads of gove, those not sold out to the false religions or faiths, or gove's

agree with this?
at the 7 th seal you have mention of the 7 angels or trumpets which follow , see rev 8:1,

NOW HERE THIS , THIS IS ALL DURING THE LAST DAYS AND DURING THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT,

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT IS THE GIVING OF THE WHITE GARMENTS, WHICH IS THE ANOINTING OF THE SPIRIT,cleansing, OR THE FIRST RESSURRECTION OR IN PART OF THE THE 144,000.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS OR ARE YOU LOST HERE?

EXODUS19

 

[bertie]

it appears that both of you are debate details here otherwise crossing over each other.

NOte at the 6th seal you have mention of the 144,000 which is the same mentioned at 14:3 those not defiled with the heads of gove, those not sold out to the false religions or faiths, or gove's

agree with this?
at the 7 th seal you have mention of the 7 angels or trumpets which follow , see rev 8:1,

NOW HERE THIS , THIS IS ALL DURING THE LAST DAYS AND DURING THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT,

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT IS THE GIVING OF THE WHITE GARMENTS, WHICH IS THE ANOINTING OF THE SPIRIT,cleansing, OR THE FIRST RESSURRECTION OR IN PART OF THE THE 144,000.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS OR ARE YOU LOST HERE?

EXODUS19

The 144,000 are the millenium rulers?the re will be no souls resurrected but these till after the millenium?And they will bring the last of the humans left standing to Christ after the first res.?

 

[Affinity]

it appears that both of you are debate details here otherwise crossing over each other.

NOte at the 6th seal you have mention of the 144,000 which is the same mentioned at 14:3 those not defiled with the heads of gove, those not sold out to the false religions or faiths, or gove's

agree with this?
at the 7 th seal you have mention of the 7 angels or trumpets which follow , see rev 8:1,

NOW HERE THIS , THIS IS ALL DURING THE LAST DAYS AND DURING THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT,

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT IS THE GIVING OF THE WHITE GARMENTS, WHICH IS THE ANOINTING OF THE SPIRIT,cleansing, OR THE FIRST RESSURRECTION OR IN PART OF THE THE 144,000.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS OR ARE YOU LOST HERE?

EXODUS19

It takes a whole lot of baseless supposition to counter the plain sense meaning of the scriptures.

 

[calidog]

According to Rev. 3.10, only those Christians who keep the word of His patience will be raptured before the Tribulation.

"Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev. 3.10).

When do we see the rapture? Before the trumpets start in Revelation 8.

"...stood before the throne" (Rev. 7.9).

This is a vision of the raptured ones from which they first commence to enter into 3rd heaven before the trumpets of the Tribulation.

When are the Christians who are "left" (Matt. 24.40-41) to be raptured?

"...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible..." (1 Cor. 15.52).

Do you see the picture of trumpets from the first rapture to the rapture at the 7th trumpet?

Lord may others see this truth also and stop arguing with each other. There ought to be noone here who will argue with this truth, so before posting please humble yourselves by the grace of God before.

When do we see the rapture? Rev 4:1

 

[lecoop]

When do we see the rapture? Rev 4:1

There can be no greater stretch of scripture than to make Rev 4:1 be the rapture. Sure, we want to find the rapture somewhere before the week starts, but come on - let's not grasp at straws. A five year old (that could read) would tell us that this was God calling John to heaven. Nothing more. Why would one see the rapture here?

Coop

 

[FreeinChrist]

When do we see the rapture? Rev 4:1

I agree.

 

[Kingdom_Come]

When do we see the rapture? Rev 4:1

Actually there is no mention of the rapture in the verse. It’s quite plain really. John is being taken so he can witness the things which must happen. To read anything more into this verse is to ascribe meaning not given to us by the text.

 

[lecoop]

May people like to see "after this," to mean "after the church age," and then the voice saying "Come up hither" to mean the rapture. I said this is an extreme stretch, because this is not the first meaning of these verses; indeed, it is not even a distant meaning. First let's look at the "after this."

Revelation 4:1
After this I looked,...

You are trying to make this say "after the church age..."

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw...

John uses this as a transition into the first intermission after the 6th seal.

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld,...

This is the transition from the sealing of the 144,000 to the great crowd.

Revelation 15:5
And after that I looked,...

A transition between a song of praise and John seeing the 7 angels with the 7 vials.

Revelation 18:1
And after these things I saw...

This is a transition between the angel instruction John on what he saw concerning the woman riding the beast, and another angel declaring that Babylon is fallen.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard...

This is the transition between the discription of the fall of Babylon and praise to God about the destruction of Babylon.

Here are 6 phrases, all almost identical. In five of these, I would hope that you would describe the phrase as being merely a transitional phrase that John used to start another line of thought: a break from one part of the vision to another. Therefore, I declare that it is silliness to make one of these phrases into something it isn't, just because we want it to say something it doesn't, or because hundreds of others have done it before us. This kind of expositon gives ground to post and prewrath people, because they can read too. Do we have to bend the normal meaning of something to make it say what we want? I don't think so. Therefore, the "After this" is mearly John's transition from the visions concerning the 7 churchs to the next vision he will see.

Rev 4
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

What is the purpose of the rapture? It is to remove us from the earth, take us to Him and the abodes that He has prepared for us, and so that we will always be with the Lord. Why is John called up here in Reve 4:1? It was for one purpose: so that John could receive revelation of the things that would take place in his future. Why would God do this? One big reason was so that John could write the book of Revelation. In other words, the purpose John was called up is entirely different than the rapture. The church is not being called to heaven to find out what will take place in our future - although we will surely find out, sooner or later.

If God had wanted to make the time of the rapture plain, He could have. However, the rapture was a mystery shown only to Paul. It is apparent that God wants the timing to be a mystery also.

Many people quote verses like these, and try to make them fit the rapture.

Matt 24
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

These verses, taken in context, are speaking of the time of the physical return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, when He will set His feet down on Mt. Olivet. The rapture will have taken place long before the time that these verses are speaking of. However, these verses do show a principle. The time of Jesus second coming is and will remain, a secret because that is the way the Father has decreed it. We know that it will be "immediately after" the tribulation of those days, but that is as close as we can get. Therefore, those that understand the scriptures, and are living through the tribulation, will know the year, and will even be able to count the days after the abomination, and will know exactly when the 70th week will finish. But they will not know the day or the hour. Neither will we know the day nor hour of the rapture.

Coop

 

[Bethshaya]

I used to believe in Pre Trib, but now I can honestly say, I believe in "He-Trib". He will take us when he takes us. I hope for the blessing to be taken before, but prepare spiritually and physically for the possibility he wont.

The scriptures we have can be interpreted different ways, I can see most of the views (not all). So, my best answer as to when the Rapture will occur is:....Anytime now.

The one view I do feel the strongest about is that He will come on the Feast of Trumpets. What year, I do not know, what day, specifically, I do not know. That is the one feast that the scriptures declare "the day and hour" no one knows. All of Christs life on earth lines up perfectly to the day of the Jewish feasts. He came on Tabernacles (He dwells among us), we were "passed over for the price of sin" on Passover, Jesus was buried on Unleavened bread (sin cleansed), He rose on the feast of "First Fruits" (he was the first to rise), The Holy Spirit came on the feast of "Pentecost". The next festival to be fullfilled in order is the Feast of Trumpets - Rosh Hoshanah...what does Christ come back to the sound of in Rev? A Trumpet, the Shofar.

Rosh Hoshanah - In Talmudic times, Rosh HaShana became a celebration of the anniversary of the world's creation and a day of self-examination, repentance and judgment. (which took 6 days and 1 to rest, 7 days in all) While the day was called Yom HaZikaron (Day of Remembrance) and Yom HaDin (Judgment Day), the name Rosh HaShana (Head of the Year) which was first used in the Mishnah has become the most prevalent.

The Feast after that is Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the holiest day in the Jewish year. Could this be the great "Judgement" and "Atonement?"

I dont know, but it sure does seem to make sense that if all His life lined up, than His second coming will continue the pattern.

After Yom Kippur, the cycle starts over again, Tabernacles! He dwells among us again! In HIS Kingdom this time. It is a feast of harvest. He has harvested His people and they now dwell with Him in His Kingdom.

I dont believe God gave the feasts to man in the OT just to give them. He had a plan. For every question in the OT, there is an answer in the NT. The same goes for the festivals. Their answers are in the NT...Jesus!

 

[calidog]

??rev 12:5. She is Israel, a son, male is Jesus. This is'nt the rapture.

 

[Jesusmyfriend]

.

 

[L0U]

All this testimony against "pre-trib" rapture theory. Answer me this, if there isn't any pre-trib rapture, then why did Jesus say:

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36)

If we are going to go through it (the great tribulation), then why would we have to pray to be accounted worthy to escape it? And if it isn't the great tribulation then what are we to escape from?

First of all, the context of the Lord message here is the Son of man's coming AFTER the great tribulation (see Luke 21:25-27)
But especially verse 28:
"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

Secondly, we have the very same author, Luke using this very same verb ('ekpheugo') in two other places:

1) Acts 16:27

"When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped."
(They were in prison and they 'escaped' from the midst of prison.)

2) Acts 19:16

"And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded."
(They were in the house and then 'fled' from the midst of the house)

Luke also uses this word (withou the prefix 'ek') in verse 21 of the same passage:

"Then let them which are in Judaea flee ('pheugo') to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out ('ek'choreo'); and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

Thirdly, how is it that most pre-tribulationalists will tell us that, "Oh, the olivet discourse is speaking to the Jews, its on 'Jewish Ground', its not talking about the church." But when you come to a verse like this that talks about 'escaping' something, all of a sudden, "He speaking to the church."???????????????????????????

Are we hearing only that which we want to hear? Do we gather around ourselves teachers who will tell us what we want to hear?(2 Timothy 4)

 

[L0U]

Now, in your mind, when does this great affliction start? Can we identify this time in the book of Revelation?

I believe so.





Jesus said that the great tribulation would begin following the abomination of desolation, when that abomination will "stand in the Holy Place":

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."




​

Paul said that the man of sin will sit in the temple of God claiming himself to be God.






Paul said that this is to occur before the Day of the Lord:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."




​

Jesus also said that this would occur before His coming:

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."




​

What Jesus is confirming here is the very thing that the prophets spoke of that would be prior to the Day of the Lord, in answer to the disciples question concerning "the sign of Thy coming."


And that sign occurrs at the openning of the sixth seal.

At this point, without any pre-concieved notions, it is therefore both logical and Biblical to place the 'great tribulation' before the openning of the sixth seal.

But we have no need to rely on these things alone for the 'great multitude' of Revelation 7 is seen coming "out of ('ek') THE great tribulation" before the wrath of the Lamb ("great Day of His wrath" "Day of the Lord") which begins at the openning of the seventh seal, well into the second half of the seventieth week.





"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..."

"..."Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:.."




​

Apparently these will have seen something.....



"....and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."





This is both His being "revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" and His "{appearing, when we} shall also appear with Him in glory".

"Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."

​

It is not that "two comings" are spoken of in Scriptures but that two perspectives are being shown.
Like the Day of the Lord passages. It is coming on those in darkness as a thief in the night. But since we are not in darkness, "when {we} shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

​

​

 

[L0U]

It is the church, with the anointing of the HS upon us, that is restraining the antichrist. When we go, the anointing goes with us, but of course the HS stays here. He is omnipresent.

If what you say is the case, then could you please explain to me what HE said here in the Olivet Discourse:

"And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
​

 

[L0U]

Biblically, we can see that the following is in direct context to the time period following the openning of the sixth seal and the introduction of the Day of the Lord which will have suddenly come upon the earth. A day which we know from Pauls writtings will not come until after the revealing of the man of sin.

Luke 21:26

"Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

"LOOKING AFTER THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE COMING"
Literally:
"expectation of the things coming"

Luke 21:26, RV, "expectation," KJV, "looking for," regarding IMPENDING CALAMITIES. (W.E.Vine)

impending- to be about to occur. Imminent.

When a woman is in labor she and all around her are in 'expectation' of the birth of a child. Once the child is born she and those around her are no longer in 'expectation' of that which has already occurred.

Revelation 6:17

"For the great day of his wrath IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

Notice that this was said only after the sign which Scriptures declare would precede (come before) the Day of the Lord

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, ----BEFORE----- the great and the terrible day of the Lord come." (Joel 2:31, Matthew 24:29-31)

Just as Jesus said would occurr, men will be in fearful 'expectation' of the Day of the Lord.

Just as Adam and Eve sought to hide from the presence of God for fear because of their sin, so also the world at the Coming of Christ, at the Day of the Lord.

 

[calidog]

we don't know the day nor the hour, but those left in the tribulation will be able to figure out the day.