When Exactly Is the Rapture?

[good4u]

Now "brother" I didn't start the question...you did.

Flaming me by name calling is not starting off correctly.

If you don't have a question, then forget I asked.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

No, you are in error. It is NOT the 7th trumpet -- that is during the Day of the Lord and believers are already GONE from earth. You misinterpret Scripture, as so many on this board do.

When are believers raptured? When the sun is darkened and the moon turns red as if it were blood...read what Jesus says in Matthew 24...He should know, don't you think?

Rapture is pretrib .. Matt 24:36 if post trib every one knows the day and hour

Matt 24:29 happens after the tribulation

during this time in Matt. the church is a mystery still 1 cor 15:51-54
reason for no moon or sun is in 2 peter 3:10-13

wanna explain your problem

what problem do you precieve that I have.?
or are you unlearned...

flaming...

what are you talking about...deal with the verses

 

[exodus19]

pre trib post trib what did jesus say ?

remember or did you forget read Luke 21:10 forward and see who things unfold and when you get to verses 22, 23 , these are the ones confirming the 7th trump..they happen and the confirmation takes place at the judgement of the harlot and the beast,
and the marriage is supper is a great party,

and then you have the following as the promise of God being filled

but not the latter verses that jesus warns take head that your hearts be not surcharged with surfeiting, ie lust of the flesh and you continue to be overcome by the lust of material life.

this is precisely what happens at the throne judgement where there are tens of thousands as confirmed in rev ch 5 ,

That is the week of the throne and many will come and be turned back into their ways of sin lfe, as it says so shall it be.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT REV CH 5 THROUGH 22 IS THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT, IT 'S ALL IN ONE WEEK REVEALLED THOUGH THEIR ARE TIMES THAT ARE SPOKEN OF THAT PERTAIN TO THE EVENTS PRIOR TO AND POST THE WEEK?

HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD THIS , IF YOU NEED CLARIFICATION

ASK.

 

[good4u]

Rapture is pretrib .. Matt 24:36 if post trib every one knows the day and hour

Well, if those who are post-tribbers (are you one?) care to tell me the day and hour? I'm certainly interested.

Matt 24:29 happens after the tribulation

during this time in Matt. the church is a mystery still 1 cor 15:51-54
reason for no moon or sun is in 2 peter 3:10-13

Maybe you care to explain exactly what your point is from every verse. I will not read your scriptural tea leaves.

what are you talking about...deal with the verses

Do you know what flaming is? Read the forum rules. You were very close to breaking it.

I will deal with verses when you give me something to talk about.

 

[frankDH]

Well, if those who are post-tribbers (are you one?) care to tell me the day and hour? I'm certainly interested.

I consider myself post trib.None of us can tell you the day or the hour. I do not believe the passing of days can be accurately counted in the 70th week. So the timing of the second coming cannot be derived by counting days until the"known day". There is no known day. Frank

 

[fwGod]

you talk like one of those who might be around through the tribulation.

are you Jewish? i was wondering.. if you might be one of the 12 tribes that are sealed by God to preach the gospel.

At this point our opinions diverge. I do not see anything about God telling me to hope anything in Rev. 7, nor in Matt 24.

Also, I am saved. No thought is going to damn me now. Moses and Abraham both argued with God, made their points, and God acceded. What we have is a relationship, first and foremost. It lives, grows, breathes and moves, and relationships are dynamic. Chuck Missler, an amazing teacher of scripture, calls it a "governing dynamic", a great way of putting it.

I am also reasonably sure that Christ sees my heart for what it is, understands why I feel a deeply personal need to serve as I do, and would never find fault with me for wanting to help people more than I want to be safe and sound.

Thirdly and finally: I do not serve God or Christ because of a promise of reward. That's nice and all, but even if the situation was somehow reversed, that serving the Lord was punished eternally instead of rewarded...I would still do it. I serve Him because He is God, He is Lord. The reward is a perk. Heaven is a perk. Serving God is what it is all about.

God bless!

 

[fwGod]

According to Rev. 3.10, only those Christians who keep the word of His patience will be raptured before the Tribulation.

"Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev. 3.10).

When do we see the rapture? Before the trumpets start in Revelation 8.

"...stood before the throne" (Rev. 7.9).

This is a vision of the raptured ones from which they first commence to enter into 3rd heaven before the trumpets of the Tribulation.

i have some disagreement with what you've said. i write this out to show where i get my position. i'm not intending to appear to know more than anyone else.

those of revelation7:9 were preached to by the 12 tribes. why? because they up to that point had not been saved.
the language througout the chapter is full of jewish references. so i am more inclined to believe that they were indeed jewish people in that group as seen to be in heaven after rev.7:8

no where in that chapter does it say they were raptured or that they were martyred as a means to be there. so i personally think that its presumptuous to assume that they were raptured because there's no clear usage of words that indicate rapture connected with how they got in heaven.

in fairness, neither does it say that they were martyred. so its a toss up.

When are the Christians who are "left" (Matt. 24.40-41) to be raptured?

here is another assumption. i do not see the words "left" and "taken away" necessarily mean "rapture".

the text says, "the coming of the Son of man will be just like the days of Noah."

there was no rapture at that time. they were only separated.. the good family of Noah.. from all the rest who did not go into the ark and were drowned.

the verses are talking about the people at large not understanding that a judgement of God is coming. and so not taking the offer of shelter that is provided.

so the "left" and "taken away" is talking about separation/ harvest / judgement.

if "taken away" is supposed to mean 'rapture'.. in the text.. no one was "taken away" from the earth.
and if "left" refers to unbelievers.. the text says that they died. yet the theme of rapture also speaks of many people during the tribulation being saved.

the events of "left" and "taken away" are also connected with "the coming of the Son of man". and not the Son of man come to take His bride.

so .. i do not believe that the matt text talks about rapture.

"...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible..." (1 Cor. 15.52).

Do you see the picture of trumpets from the first rapture to the rapture at the 7th trumpet?

i also believe that its a presumption to think that "the last trump" is the same as "the 7th trumpet" of revelation.

to the non-jewish mentality i can see why anyone would assume what many do. but to my mind it doesnt fit in there.
the Bible is a jewish book written by jews. so any thing spoken of has to first be looked at from the jewish point of view. (no offense to them by my using lowercase)

the common gentile view teachings concerning the last trump.. and the 7th trumpet. but the revel text has no language that indicates that there was a rapture. so its a big stretch to insert the 1cor15:52 in there.

however.. the jewish people have teachings about the last trump. so any understanding must be taken from that. and the last trump refers to the horn blown to call the beginning of one of the jewish feasts.
that jewish feast that is a connected to a season of harvest and type of the rapture.

i agree with you concerning your mention of revel.3:10.. the language indicates that the church will be taken out before any tribulation starts.

the church is to be kept from.. the hour (not literally 60 min) but meaning.. time of trial to come upon the whole world.. (not us, but) to them that dwell on the earth (differentiating between the church which shall not be upon the earth at that time).

Lord may others see this truth also and stop arguing with each other. There ought to be noone here who will argue with this truth, so before posting please humble yourselves by the grace of God before.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Well, if those who are post-tribbers (are you one?) care to tell me the day and hour? I'm certainly interested.

Only seven years during jacob trouble...
first 3 and half years ...7 seals
next 3 and half years ...1 trumpet, 1 vial, 2 trumpet, 2vial, 3rd trumpet, 3rd and 4th vails, 4th and 5th trumpets, 5th and 6th vial, 7th trumpet and then 7th vial .... intermix the 7 thunders... that John said was to terrible to tell us..

2 thes 2:3 Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come[2 thes 2:1], except there come a departure first, and that man of sin, be revealed, the son of perdition.

Maybe you care to explain exactly what your point is from every verse. I will not read your scriptural tea leaves.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

2 peter 3:But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy daily routine of life 12 Looking for and eager for the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the basic elements shall melt with fervent heat. 13 neverless we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

these are two verses that go together...pretty plain english for you... not in code..

Do you know what flaming is? Read the forum rules. You were very close to breaking it.

I will deal with verses when you give me something to talk about.

But I did not... one does or one does not

 

[good4u]

"Brother"

So what? You can quote Scripture. So can Satan.

You still expect me to do your work regarding correct understanding of Scripture. I will not.

You tell me what you disagree with me about my position. Then maybe we might discuss it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

pre trib post trib what did jesus say ?

remember or did you forget read Luke 21:10 forward and see who things unfold and when you get to verses 22, 23 , these are the ones confirming the 7th trump..they happen and the confirmation takes place at the judgement of the harlot and the beast,
and the marriage is supper is a great party,

and then you have the following as the promise of God being filled

but not the latter verses that jesus warns take head that your hearts be not surcharged with surfeiting, ie lust of the flesh and you continue to be overcome by the lust of material life.

this is precisely what happens at the throne judgement where there are tens of thousands as confirmed in rev ch 5 ,

That is the week of the throne and many will come and be turned back into their ways of sin lfe, as it says so shall it be.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT REV CH 5 THROUGH 22 IS THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT, IT 'S ALL IN ONE WEEK REVEALLED THOUGH THEIR ARE TIMES THAT ARE SPOKEN OF THAT PERTAIN TO THE EVENTS PRIOR TO AND POST THE WEEK?

HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD THIS , IF YOU NEED CLARIFICATION

ASK.

Yes, I understand I think, and I thought most everyone understood that .[at least that is what my Sunday School teacher told us]. She told us we are in Jesus, and He will always protect us no matter what. If Jesus could go through what He did, I would be glad to suffer for His Blessed Name. AMEN!!!!!

The same ones "standing" [note they are "not raised"] at the white throne, and are indeed the same ones in chapt 6 looking up at Him who sits on the THRONE!!!! WOW!!!!

The Good guys are standing with the Little Lambkin on Mt Zion feasting on fish and bread and drinking wine.

Mala 3:2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He [is] like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap[SIZE=+2].

[/SIZE] Reve 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the Throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Reve 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened,

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://www.wake-up.org/daystar/ds2005/Dec.htm


The Wake Up Report

A Pre-Tribulation Rapture: Fact or Fiction?

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev1.htm

The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire. These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages. Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world. Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted and Mistranslated!

http://www.scripture4all.org/index.htm

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Revelation 21:15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the City, its gates, and its wall.
(Young)

Matthew 8:12 "But the sons [#5207] of the kingdom [#932] shall be being "cast out" [#1544] into outer [#1857] darkness.

Revelation 14:20 and was trodden[#3961] the wine-press [#3025] outside [#1854] of the City

Matthew 26:3 Then the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the palace [#833] of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

 

[kw5kw]

Matt. xxiv:22 "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened." (NIV)

Right there in red and white.

I need no more or any less.

Russ

 

[Izzy23]

I'm a pre-tribber. I wanna go home.

 

[jeffweeder]

WHY ? what privalidge do you have over the early church? Paul wanted to go home to, but he was very much needed. How much more us, to this world.?

 

[Izzy23]

WHY ? what privalidge do you have over the early church? Paul wanted to go home to, but he was very much needed. How much more us, to this world.?

He will call me home in his due time. I am no more privileged then anyone else. But, that I am ready and packed, make no doubt about that. I believe that He will pick up his church before the tribulation.

 

[BarbB]

He will call me home in his due time. I am no more privileged then anyone else. But, that I am ready and packed, make no doubt about that. I believe that He will pick up his church before the tribulation.

Me, too! Ready and willing to fly outta here!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

WHY ? what privalidge do you have over the early church? Paul wanted to go home to, but he was very much needed. How much more us, to this world.?

He will call me home in his due time. I am no more privileged then anyone else. But, that I am ready and packed, make no doubt about that. I believe that He will pick up his church before the tribulation.

Me, too! Ready and willing to fly outta here!

I got a question.

Who are these Believers in Christ "left behind" to go through the Great Trib [just before the Wraths of course]

Revelation 2:10 "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw [some] of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a Time of Trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time Your People shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

Revelation 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred [and] forty-four thousand, 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from [among] men, [being] firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

(Rotherham) 1 Thessalonians 3:4 For, even when we were with you, we told you beforehand--we are destined to suffer tribulation! even as it also came to pass, and ye know.

 

[BarbB]

Well, I think the believers/martyrs in the tribulation are those who have been "left behind", not that I thought the books were anything but great fun! The 144,000 are Jewish who will be preaching to the Jews about the Messiah, whom they will finally recognize as Jesus. As firstfruits, would they be 1/10th of the final number?

The ones who come out of the great tribulation are those who are converted during the tribulation - the anti-Christ doesn't get everything his own way, right?

Did you catch the part about it being heads of the martyrs under the altar? Eerie considering the penchant for the Islamic jihadists to behead hostages with a knife.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I got a question.

Who are these Believers in Christ "left behind" to go through the Great Trib [just before the Wraths of course]

Revelation 2:10 "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw [some] of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Well, I think the believers/martyrs in the tribulation are those who have been "left behind", not that I thought the books were anything but great fun! The 144,000 are Jewish who will be preaching to the Jews about the Messiah, whom they will finally recognize as Jesus. As firstfruits, would they be 1/10th of the final number? The ones who come out of the great tribulation are those who are converted during the tribulation - the anti-Christ doesn't get everything his own way, right?

Did you catch the part about it being heads of the martyrs under the altar? Eerie considering the penchant for the Islamic jihadists to behead hostages with a knife.

"Beheading" is an interesting word, as it is a completely different greek word than the one used for JTB in the NT. In fact, it comes from the same root word as the word "plagues/Stripes" in revelation.
I am studying on this now. So when do you see the rapture of "us" in revelation?

reve 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded [#3990] for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God,

3990. pelekizo pel-ek-id'-zo from a derivative of 4141 (meaning an axe); to chop off (the head), i.e. truncate:--behead. 4141. plesso place'-so apparently another form of 4111 (through the idea of flattening out); to pound, i.e. (figuratively) to inflict with (calamity):--smite. Compare 5180. 5180. tupto toop'-to a primary verb (in a strengthened form); to "thump", i.e. cudgel or pummel (properly, with a stick or bastinado), but in any case by repeated blows; thus differing from 3817 and 3960, which denote a (usually single) blow with the hand or any instrument, or 4141 with the fist (or a hammer), or 4474 with the palm; as well as from 5177, an accidental collision); by implication, to punish; figuratively, to offend (the conscience):--beat, smite, strike, wound.

Acts 16:23 And when they had laid many stripes [#4127] on them, they threw [them] into prison, commanding the jailer to keep them securely.

Revelation 15:8 And the sanctuary was filled with smoke by reason of the glory of God, and by reason of his power; and, no one, was able to enter into the sanctuary, until the seven plagues/Stripes [#4127]

4127. plege play-gay' from 4141; a stroke; by implication, a wound; figuratively, a calamity:--plague, stripe, wound(-ed).

 

[icedtea]

When exactly will the rapture be?
When you come to this board, and almost all of us are gone and not posting anymore; then that will be the day.