Whats your opinion?

Cactus Jack

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
1,459
111
somewhere
✟17,259.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Whats your opinion?
Pizza. Large, onions, bell peppers, mushrooms, hamburger, extra black olives, extra cheese. Goes great with Dr. Pepper. :clap:



What's YOUR opinion on why Christians should let CNN tell them what to say, think or do? Change the channel and let CNN do their own false prophesizing.


Should Christians support the death penalty today? I believe that we must, but with the considerations detailed above.
God Bless

I dunno. It's on a case by case scenario, and since I'm not the judge and I ain't on the jury I certainly refuse to be the executioner.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
We are commanded to kill the enemies of Jesus (Luke 19:27)

Could you give example of who the enemies of Jesus are?


How do you think Jesus would feel about this?

Don't you think Jesus wanting people killed in front of him, contradicts how he is portrayed in most of the NT?
 
Upvote 0

interpreter

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2004
6,309
157
76
Texas
✟7,377.00
Faith
Anglican
Could you give example of who the enemies of Jesus are?


How do you think Jesus would feel about this?

Don't you think Jesus wanting people killed in front of him, contradicts how he is portrayed in most of the NT?
An enemy of Jesus is anyone a Christian nation condemns to death.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
An enemy of Jesus is anyone a Christian nation condemns to death.

How do you define whether a nation is Christian or not?

What if someone does not believe Jesus was God, are they an enemy of Jesus as well and should be put to death?
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If I'm not mistaken, the Bible says "thou shalt not kill" and not "thou shalt not kill unless a person is really, really evil".

That pretty much settles the issue for me.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0

interpreter

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2004
6,309
157
76
Texas
✟7,377.00
Faith
Anglican
How do you define whether a nation is Christian or not?
A Christian nation is any nation where a majority of its citizens are Christians.

What if someone does not believe Jesus was God, are they an enemy of Jesus as well and should be put to death?
I am satisfied with the way the US carries out the death sentence, both in the courts and on the battlefield. Jesus is pleased too, otherwise He would not let the US rule the world as the earth's only superpower. We bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
A Christian nation is any nation where a majority of its citizens are Christians.

I am satisfied with the way the US carries out the death sentence, both in the courts and on the battlefield. Jesus is pleased too, otherwise He would not let the US rule the world as the earth's only superpower. We bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus.

Ok. There are many nations where the majority of the population are not Christian. In your opinion, what should the US do about the population in those countries?

Lastly, you are aware, that capital punishment has been abolished by some states. What do you think the US should do about that?
 
Upvote 0

interpreter

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2004
6,309
157
76
Texas
✟7,377.00
Faith
Anglican
Ok. There are many nations where the majority of the population are not Christian. In your opinion, what should the US do about the population in those countries?

Lastly, you are aware, that capital punishment has been abolished by some states. What do you think the US should do about that?
The US often intervenes in non-Christian nations, and those who do not wish to harm the US are left alone. I would not live in a state where the death penalty is not a deterant.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The US often intervenes in non-Christian nations, and those who do not wish to harm the US are left alone. I would not live in a state where the death penalty is not a deterant.

The vast majority of experts in this field, do not believe the death penalty is a deterent.

Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty
A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.
Similarly, 87% of the expert criminologists believe that abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on murder rates. In addition, 75% of the respondents agree that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.”
The survey relied on questionnaires completed by the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country, including Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. Respondents were not asked for their personal opinion about the death penalty, but instead to answer on the basis of their understandings of the empirical research.

Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
 
Upvote 0

Billnew

Legend
Apr 23, 2004
21,246
1,234
58
Ohio
Visit site
✟35,363.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
There are crimes worthy of the ultimate punishment.
Biblically there are many, many crimes that the bible says should be death.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21:12&version=ESV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21:12&version=ESV

We must use the executioner's blade sparringly and be in the most grievous of crimes, but the ultimate punishment must be available. Take no joy in the death or you become no better then the criminal, but know that some evil people do crimes that justify payment with their life.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+24:17&version=ESV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+24:17&version=ESV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21:17&version=ESV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21:17&version=ESV

I found many more, but here is three.

The death penalty is fully accepted in Christianity. It is used for far more then we use it today.
We must guard against abuses, bigotry, or killing for convience.

I wonder how many against the death penalty support abortion on demand for any reason, any point in pregnancy?
 
Upvote 0

Billnew

Legend
Apr 23, 2004
21,246
1,234
58
Ohio
Visit site
✟35,363.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
The vast majority of experts in this field, do not believe the death penalty is a deterent.


The survey relied on questionnaires completed by the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country, including Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. Respondents were not asked for their personal opinion about the death penalty, but instead to answer on the basis of their understandings of the empirical research.

Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
(edited quote only to reduce post size)

It is no deterant when the execution is a life time away from the crime. 20 yrs after the crime is not justice.

Someone thinking of murder will see:
1. they might not get caught, but if they do:
2. average sentence for killing someone is less then 8yrs?
3. they might not get the death sentence.
4. if they do get the death sentence, they will probably not actually get the punishment.
5. They will have lived more time in prison then out by the time they are executed. (Most murderers are under 25 yrs old.)

What is the statute of limitations? less then 15yrs for ost crimes. Why? Because people forget, evidence lost, people go on with their lives. Biggest is people forget. They forget the emotions of the crime, they forget the pain of the family. They only see the pathetic puppy dog face with crocodile tears of the condemned. They don't see the violent bloody face of the victim.

Any execution past 5yrs is not real justice. There has to be a limit to appeals and delays for any deterence to be realized.

As I said, limit it to the most horrible crimes, for the worst offenders, but carry out the sentence within 5 yrs.
 
Upvote 0

interpreter

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2004
6,309
157
76
Texas
✟7,377.00
Faith
Anglican
(edited quote only to reduce post size)

It is no deterant when the execution is a life time away from the crime. 20 yrs after the crime is not justice.

Someone thinking of murder will see:
1. they might not get caught, but if they do:
2. average sentence for killing someone is less then 8yrs?
3. they might not get the death sentence.
4. if they do get the death sentence, they will probably not actually get the punishment.
5. They will have lived more time in prison then out by the time they are executed. (Most murderers are under 25 yrs old.)

What is the statute of limitations? less then 15yrs for ost crimes. Why? Because people forget, evidence lost, people go on with their lives. Biggest is people forget. They forget the emotions of the crime, they forget the pain of the family. They only see the pathetic puppy dog face with crocodile tears of the condemned. They don't see the violent bloody face of the victim.

Any execution past 5yrs is not real justice. There has to be a limit to appeals and delays for any deterence to be realized.

As I said, limit it to the most horrible crimes, for the worst offenders, but carry out the sentence within 5 yrs.
:amen:
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Saying that the Old Testament justifies murder is problematic for several reasons:
1. If we start basing our laws off of Levitical law, where do we draw the line? I know it gets brought up in every thread on this subject, but does that mean that laws permitting the stoning of disobedient children become justified also?

2. Our government is Constitutionally required to remain religiously neutral. Thus, basing our justifications (rationalizations) for the death penalty is an intermingling of two things that should be separate: church and state.

3. The Bible also says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord". As much as you can find rationalizations for putting criminals to death, you can find an equal number of verses saying the opposite.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

StephanieSomer

Regular Member
Mar 16, 2014
2,065
512
67
Chesapeake, VA
✟12,328.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Saying that the Old Testament justifies murder is problematic for several reasons:
1. If we start basing our laws off of Levitical law, where do we draw the line? I know it gets brought up in every thread on this subject, but does that mean that laws permitting the stoning of disobedient children become justified also?

2. Our government is Constitutionally required to remain religiously neutral. Thus, basing our justifications (rationalizations) for the death penalty is an intermingling of two things that should be separate: church and state.

3. The Bible also says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord". As much as you can find rationalizations for putting criminals to death, you can find an equal number of verses saying the opposite.
Ringo

There is a problem with some of that reasoning. Capital punishment for murder is not Levitical Law. It was the law, in fact the ONLY law, given to Noah. And the wording of it is not individualized, but generalized in a way to include all of humanity, not a particular nation as the Levitical Law was.
Christ could have just as easily said on Golgotha, "Let him that is without sin drive the first nail." He had the authority to do that. And if He had, He would have had several legions of angels to insure that was done. However, He recognized governmental authority to exercise capital punishment when He said to Pilate, "You could not have any power over me unless it were given to you from above." In obedience to that authority which His Father had given, He did not struggle or even object. And He allowed Himself to be crucified, according to governmental law.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The US often intervenes in non-Christian nations, and those who do not wish to harm the US are left alone. I would not live in a state where the death penalty is not a deterant.

It is then ok for there to be non christian nations, where the majority of people do not believe in christianity, as long as the ruler of the world deems they are not a threat?
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There is a problem with some of that reasoning. Capital punishment for murder is not Levitical Law. It was the law, in fact the ONLY law, given to Noah. And the wording of it is not individualized, but generalized in a way to include all of humanity, not a particular nation as the Levitical Law was.

The preceding verse(s) before the one Bill posted says "I am the Lord your God that brought you out of Israel". It would sure seem to me that the law in question is Torah law.

Christ could have just as easily said on Golgotha, "Let him that is without sin drive the first nail." He had the authority to do that. And if He had, He would have had several legions of angels to insure that was done. However, He recognized governmental authority to exercise capital punishment when He said to Pilate, "You could not have any power over me unless it were given to you from above." In obedience to that authority which His Father had given, He did not struggle or even object. And He allowed Himself to be crucified, according to governmental law.

Really interesting that you'd bring up the Crucifixion to justify the death penalty, as Jesus' crucifixion was a travesty of justice based on trumped up charges. So it's a bit strange to use that as proof that the death penalty is OK.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0

ThisBrotherOfHis

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2013
1,444
115
On the cusp of the Border War
✟2,181.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Really interesting that you'd bring up the Crucifixion to justify the death penalty, as Jesus' crucifixion was a travesty of justice based on trumped up charges. So it's a bit strange to use that as proof that the death penalty is OK.
Ringo
What's really interesting is that you apparently don't understand why Christ died. Who can expect you to understand the rest of the Bible?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I understand exactly why Christ died, but I also understand that it happened at the hands of errant humans who were making a mistake.

Had justice truly been served, Jesus would not have died.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0