What's on your mind?

[Niels]

I just found out that Kevin Sorbo is a believer. Not that I'm surprised. He seemed like he might be a Christian, but I mostly stopped watching TV in the mid 2000s and don't watch many movies so this is news to me. Very cool.

 

[DragonFox91]

I just found out that Kevin Sorbo is a believer. Not that I'm surprised. He seemed like he might be a Christian, but I mostly stopped watching TV in the mid 2000s and don't watch many movies so this is news to me. Very cool.

I had no idea who this was so looked him up & yes, I just saw him in one of those evangelical Christian movies!

He's apparently in a bunch of them

 

[MehGuy]

I had no idea who this was so looked him up & yes, I just saw him in one of those evangelical Christian movies!

He's apparently in a bunch of them

I like his portrayal of atheists. It's like viewing me on the screen.

Deep down we're all just mad at God and pretend he doesn't exist to get back at him. I know a lot of atheists will object to what I said.. but as an atheist myself... deep down this is how all of us think. I literally mean every single one of us.

 

[GodDoesListen55]

What the heck is going on with the internet tonight?!

 

[DragonFox91]

I like his portrayal of atheists. It's like viewing me on the screen.

Deep down we're all just mad at God and pretend he doesn't exist to get back at him. I know a lot of atheists will object to what I said.. but as an atheist myself... deep down this is how all of us think. I literally mean every single one of us.

The 'problem of evil' is essentially a madness at God argument.

Interesting you say that also. It seems a lot of atheists think Christians are misinterpreting their arguments in evangelical movies. But when I hear atheists objections to religion, I see no difference. I will say these movies tend to downplay scientific arguments which I think is unfortunate, but the more philosophical arguments atheists present in the movies are spot-on to what atheists say.

 

[Niels]

I had no idea who this was so looked him up & yes, I just saw him in one of those evangelical Christian movies!

He's apparently in a bunch of them

I mostly remember him for his role in the Hercules TV show. Apparently, being open about his faith resulted in being blacklisted by Hollywood. Not surprising, but unfortunate. Although I don't see many evangelical Christian movies, or secular movies for that matter as I still haven't gotten around to watching Top Gun: Maverick, maybe I'll watch one or two of his. Some of them look interesting and have good reviews.

 

[MehGuy]

The 'problem of evil' is essentially a madness at God argument.

Interesting you say that also. It seems a lot of atheists think Christians are misinterpreting their arguments in evangelical movies. But when I hear atheists objections to religion, I see no difference. I will say these movies tend to downplay scientific arguments which I think is unfortunate, but the more philosophical arguments atheists present in the movies are spot-on to what atheists say.

I agree the problem of evil is a lame argument. I don't think that's the reason most are atheists. We simply see no evidence to justify a belief.

If an atheist is mad at God, it's more akin to hating a fictional character in a movie or TV show. It can still stir up some emotions, but they don't actually believe these characters are real.

Regarding the idea of a loving God existing, I can see the problem of evil/suffering having some merit. Personally I don't really care to use it myself.

 

[MehGuy]

God's Not Dead is a popular movie atheists like to watch for a good laugh. Watching it myself helps put me in the mindset of my old Christian days.

 

[DragonFox91]

I agree the problem of evil is a lame argument. I don't think that's the reason most are atheists. We simply see no evidence to justify a belief.

If an atheist is mad at God, it's more akin to hating a fictional character in a movie or TV show. It can still stir up some emotions, but they don't actually believe these characters are real.

Regarding the idea of a loving God existing, I can see the problem of evil/suffering having some merit. Personally I don't really care to use it myself.

When an atheist sees believers describing God as loving & good, & look around & see the contrary, that is in fact seeing no evidence. So I don’t understand why atheists think that’s a stereotype atheist argument & it's just Christians being silly in not understanding their views?

I agree it’s possible to be mad at fictional characters & be obsessed in the hatred (love to hate?) for them. & definitely agree 'you hating God proves you know he is who he says he is.'

But one thing I’ve increasingly noticed tho as someone who likes fiction, the root of the madness is at the writer of the fictional character. Usually it's dumb decisions the writer made. These characters aren't writing themselves. So it is completely possible to call something fiction but know there's more to it than that. I listen to a lot of Youtube videos that rip on ficitionalized characters that stem to dumb choices the writer made & just thought now the connection.

God's Not Dead is a popular movie atheists like to watch for a good laugh. Watching it myself helps put me in the mindset of my old Christian days.

I've seen it & remember liking it but don't remember much of it.

But there's a lot of evangelicals / Christians who don't like evangelical movies, including that one.

My biggest problem w/ them is that the characters go thru 1000 different negative things in a very short time span, & it's like that's usually not how life works, so how applicable really is the message the movie's trying to make?

 

[Niels]

I agree the problem of evil is a lame argument. I don't think that's the reason most are atheists. We simply see no evidence to justify a belief.

If an atheist is mad at God, it's more akin to hating a fictional character in a movie or TV show. It can still stir up some emotions, but they don't actually believe these characters are real.

Regarding the idea of a loving God existing, I can see the problem of evil/suffering having some merit. Personally I don't really care to use it myself.

Why be mad at fictional characters? That seems a little odd to me considering how angry some atheists can get. As a Christian I'm not mad at Odin, Athena, or Vishnu despite not believing in them. Most adherents of other religions strike me as misguided people who mean well and are perhaps future Christians. In every people group you will find criminals and extremists, including among believers and non-believers, so I don't automatically assume that's what they are.

Perhaps some atheists are mad at the universe, as the universe is similar to the concept of a monotheistic God, and they're looking for a scapegoat. Or more charitably maybe they don't like others defining the creator of the universe for them. The latter seems more sensible to me. I consider one's relationship with our Creator to be deeply personal, and having freedom of thought is important to me. Besides, some of them end up finding God in the process. Seek, and ye shall find.

Then again, others are actively rebelling. As with a rebellious teenager it's more a matter of emotion than reason. It seems to me that being mad at fictional characters requires a great deal of misplaced emotion. That's why I don't think there are many reasonable people among the most famous atheists. They tend to rely on being emotionally charged rather than demonstrating basic disbelief. Some believers do this too, so it's not like they're inherently more emotional than others, but it hurts the argument that their lack of belief comes from a place of objectivity.

At the end of the day though, atheists are individuals like the rest of us and life is a journey.

 

[MehGuy]

When an atheist sees believers describing God as loving & good, & look around & see the contrary, that is in fact seeing no evidence. So I don’t understand why atheists think that’s a stereotype atheist argument & it's just Christians being silly in not understanding their views?

I agree it’s possible to be mad at fictional characters & be obsessed in the hatred (love to hate?) for them. & definitely agree 'you hating God proves you know he is who he says he is.'

There are atheists in Islamic countries who express disdain for the character 'Allah'. Does the same kind of logic apply here? Atheists in the west tend to focus on Christianity because it's the most relevant here. I know of a few anti-Islamic black metal bands, some all-female. Having hatred for a religion, isn't proof of its validity.

I know some atheists make the problem of evil argument. I don't believe most hinge on that for the reason why they are an atheist, it's just an argument many can make towards Christians or anyone who has a deity that is supposedly all loving. There might be a few vapid atheists who do are atheists because of that, but I don't believe that is the majority.

But one thing I’ve increasingly noticed tho as someone who likes fiction, the root of the madness is at the writer of the fictional character. Usually it's dumb decisions the writer made. These characters aren't writing themselves. So it is completely possible to call something fiction but know there's more to it than that. I listen to a lot of Youtube videos that rip on ficitionalized characters that stem to dumb choices the writer made & just thought now the connection.

I have heard of actors who receive death threats due to the hatred of the character they play on a TV show. A common reaction people have when a tool or an object doesn't work is to anthropomorphize it and chuck it on the ground, with some vain hope that they're somehow punishing it for displeasing them.

Even as an atheist I still have spiritual moments... you really can't totally shut it off. Humans are basically empathy machines... we tend to see life all around us that isn't really there. Some take it further than others. I don't see it as proof of anything divine. It's just how our software works.

I've seen it & remember liking it but don't remember much of it.

But there's a lot of evangelicals / Christians who don't like evangelical movies, including that one.

My biggest problem w/ them is that the characters go thru 1000 different negative things in a very short time span, & it's like that's usually not how life works, so how applicable really is the message the movie's trying to make?

I remember watching God's Not Dead with my Christian family. My sister and I laughed a lot at it, my parents didn't. I know thankfully some Christians can see through the cardboard caricatures that film is filled with. I know God's Not Dead 3 tried to walk back that a little bit, giving atheists more depth and portraying Christinas in less than a perfect light. That film made more of an attempt to humanize both groups of people. Which surprised me a little bit. Some atheists saying... for a Christian movie it's pretty decent.

 

[MehGuy]

Why be mad at fictional characters? That seems a little odd to me considering how angry some atheists can get. As a Christian I'm not mad at Odin, Athena, or Vishnu despite not believing in them. Most adherents of other religions strike me as misguided people who mean well and are perhaps future Christians. In every people group you will find criminals and extremists, including among believers and non-believers, so I don't automatically assume that's what they are.

Perhaps some atheists are mad at the universe, as the universe is similar to the concept of a monotheistic God, and they're looking for a scapegoat. Or more charitably maybe they don't like others defining the creator of the universe for them. The latter seems more sensible to me. I consider one's relationship with our Creator to be deeply personal, and having freedom of thought is important to me. Besides, some of them end up finding God in the process. Seek, and ye shall find.

Then again, others are actively rebelling. As with a rebellious teenager it's more a matter of emotion than reason. It seems to me that being mad at fictional characters requires a great deal of misplaced emotion. That's why I don't think there are many reasonable people among the most famous atheists. They tend to rely on being emotionally charged rather than demonstrating basic disbelief. Some believers do this too, so it's not like they're inherently more emotional than others, but it hurts the argument that their lack of belief comes from a place of objectivity.

At the end of the day though, atheists are individuals like the rest of us and life is a journey.

The anger you see from some atheists I'd wager is more due to the psychological damage they had from their faith as a child. They don't focus on Odin, Athena or Vishnu because it wasn't what they were raised with.

During my first few years, I had a lot of hatred for Christianity. I honestly didn't believe it anymore... and it was a little disheartening to see other Christians react to my pain as some proof that I still believed. Maybe the way I talked gave the impression... but like I said with the tool example above... it's kind of ingrained with how we communicate. Since then, I've cooled down.. partly because I know expressing my trauma with my past faith.. unfortunately, is viewed as proof in other's eyes that I'm somehow still a believer.

 

[MehGuy]

I mean, I'll attack pro-atheist movies too. The movie 'The Ledge' *a movie directed by one of Charles Darwin's relatives* has a lot of the same problems as God's not Dead, but in the reverse.

 

[peaceful-forest]

I feel like this forum is becoming less and less active.

 

[Niels]

The anger you see from some atheists I'd wager is more due to the psychological damage they had from their faith as a child. They don't focus on Odin, Athena or Vishnu because it wasn't what they were raised with.

That often seems to be the case, unfortunately. I heard something similar about Richard Dawkins... and then I learned that his ex wife was supposedly devout. That helped me understand where some of his emotionalism comes from. I don't know much about their home life, but marital strife is awful.

Anti-theistic anger may not say much about the validity of a faith, but it does say something about how an individual processes their anger and how their mind works. Rather than directing it toward the specific perpetrators, they direct it toward general theological concepts. I'm not a fan of that because innocent people get blamed in the process and those who committed the act get to hide behind their religion as an excuse. There have been times when I got angry with God, but then I realize that my anger is better directed toward evil itself and the actions of the individuals who perpetrated it.

People are better held responsible for their own actions, whether Muslim, Christian, Atheist, or whatever.

During my first few years, I had a lot of hatred for Christianity. I honestly didn't believe it anymore... and it was a little disheartening to see other Christians react to my pain as some proof that I still believed. Maybe the way I talked gave the impression... but like I said with the tool example above... it's kind of ingrained with how we communicate. Since then, I've cooled down.. partly because I know expressing my trauma with my past faith.. unfortunately, is viewed as proof in other's eyes that I'm somehow still a believer.

There is something cathartic about anger. Not being ruled by it or making rash decisions, but expressing it outwardly or simply acknowledging its presence can help get it out of the system. Hatred tends to fester and be bad for everybody involved. Wasting the time and energy of both the hater and the hated. Clearly, you were hurt. The correct response should have been compassion. It can be hard to tell where others are coming from when one hasn't experienced something similar.

 

[GodDoesListen55]

Sometimes I really wish I could just expose someone for who they truly are, like, please get your life together.

 

[Niels]

I'm going to eat more fruit and drink less coffee.

 

[MehGuy]

That often seems to be the case, unfortunately. I heard something similar about Richard Dawkins... and then I learned that his ex wife was supposedly devout. That helped me understand where some of his emotionalism comes from. I don't know much about their home life, but marital strife is awful.

Does Richard Dawkins really strike you as an angry guy? I do think when someone criticizes something that is near and dear to someone there is a tendency to see anger that can be misconceived.

Anti-theistic anger may not say much about the validity of a faith, but it does say something about how an individual processes their anger and how their mind works. Rather than directing it toward the specific perpetrators, they direct it toward general theological concepts. I'm not a fan of that because innocent people get blamed in the process and those who committed the act get to hide behind their religion as an excuse. There have been times when I got angry with God, but then I realize that my anger is better directed toward evil itself and the actions of the individuals who perpetrated it.

Well in my case I do have to lay on the blame on theological concepts. These days I'm less angry about it. I do sometimes feel sadness that my psychological issues with Christianity weren't detected. I do think part of it is because the adults cared about their faith more than me, although I guess that probably biblical. Still.. I do get annoyed for instance when I talk about the damage the faith has done to me to my father, he usually just ignores me and says, "you should become a Christian again".

I mean.. Jesus does say to love him more than your family... but sorry I still can't help but feel a little hurt by it. Especially when one actually sees it in action.

People are better held responsible for their own actions, whether Muslim, Christian, Atheist, or whatever.



There is something cathartic about anger. Not being ruled by it or making rash decisions, but expressing it outwardly or simply acknowledging its presence can help get it out of the system. Hatred tends to fester and be bad for everybody involved. Wasting the time and energy of both the hater and the hated. Clearly, you were hurt. The correct response should have been compassion. It can be hard to tell where others are coming from when one hasn't experienced something similar.

Well, I can say interacting with Christians on here cooled down my anger. Well, a lot of my psychological issues I had with Christianity transferred into a deep-seated hatred for feminist (not even joking). In some ways, I guess I still haven't dealt with the trauma I suffered even if I switched targets. It's complicated.

 

[peaceful-forest]

Well in my case I do have to lay on the blame on theological concepts. These days I'm less angry about it. I do sometimes feel sadness that my psychological issues with Christianity weren't detected. I do think part of it is because the adults cared about their faith more than me, although I guess that probably biblical. Still.. I do get annoyed for instance when I talk about the damage the faith has done to me to my father, he usually just ignores me and says, "you should become a Christian again".

I'm curious exactly what happened that led you to become an atheist, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[RileyG]

I've been sober for two days now! yay!