What's on your mind?

[SarahsKnight]

Nope, good old fashioned Coca-Cola is what I'll use. I tried energy drinks before and I didn't like the taste. Can't imagine how some can drink several cans of them a day.

Actually when I first started working at Albemarle (the company I am going back to in Magnolia in another week or so), I thought the only way to keep up with a 12-hour shift was to start turning to these energy boosters like Red Bull for support. .... No. Just made my chest hurt a lot shortly after imbibing them, and really did nothing to keep me any more awake for the whole shift than I already felt I was, anyway. Only prayer to God for the sustenance to get through such a long day of work ultimately enabled me to adapt to that kind of schedule, and I will have to do so again.

 

[Toro]

I dont get the whole "energy drinks do ______ to me"....

I used to go to work, drop a 5 hour energy into a large can of monster and I could have still taken a nap.

At most the only thing energy drinks made me do..... is poo.....

 

[Swan7]

Oh, whoops. I'm sorry. I think we forgot all of the verses outside of Revelation a book known for its symbolism that clearly say the punishment is death and destruction.

You do realize that even these three verses you picked out still do not say directly what happens to human beings, right? Rev 14:11 is clearly a punishment that is still happening on Earth (otherwise you can't saw that hell is separation from God, because it says right there in the verse that the torment via fire and brimstone is happening IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb). And again, apocalyptic literature?

And the previous two verses you've cited make no reference to torment upon human beings.


I pray none of you go through the mental anguish of thinking God hates you enough to want to eternally torture you like myself, poor SnowTiger, and so many others who want to believe in and be at peace with Christ had to go through. I pray none of you suffer Scrupulosity. You would change your tune thinking this abominable doctrine is of the Holy Spirit if you did soon enough. The fire from God has never done anything to humans but destroy and consume them when used against them in the Bible. It is ridiculous to believe that it instead preserves them in torment - the complete opposite function - when no such example has ever been given. Well, other than the obvious cruelty. And no, I'm not judging God's ways in saying that, because the Bible never says those are His ways. The wages of sin is death, period (and that is by far not the only verse that makes it clear that the ultimate fate of unbelievers is destruction and an end to life, not living forever in misery. Not spiritual death. Not eternal torment. Just death. In case anyone wants to play the cite Scriptural proof game).

And in case anyone wants to use the cliche "Jesus taught hell" argument (like that somehow proves eternal torment anyway, only that there is a hell), even Jesus Himself said that God could destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Not torture it. Destroy means destroy, not preserve in pain.


I can't blame you, though, for believing it. Tradition is a powerful thing. And it took eight months of living in hell on Earth to snap me out of it. God willing at the end of his misery SnowTiger will reject the eternal torment doctrine, too, and rest better in God's love. I refuse to believe for one second that it is God doing this to SnowTiger, or that it was God giving me the fear and emotional anguish in my own time of sickness, because the traditional hell doctrine is good to Him. I refuse to blaspheme God by doing that.

Revelation is the revealing of Christ. I’m sorry you feel so passionate about not believing in all Christ has to say in His Word, but Revelation cannot be taken as one dimensional, but rather many facets (perspectives) of Him is there. Revelation is certainly one to be studied because of that and the language He chose to use.

You are welcome to believe as you do, but please refrain from blaming others on blaspheming due to different beliefs from yours. If I understood your meaning correctly ❤️

 

[SarahsKnight]

I’m sorry you feel so passionate about not believing in all Christ has to say in His Word,

Ah ....


No, never mind. Not going to bother. Other than this: if I am "so passionate about not believing in all Christ says", how do you interpret this verse from Jesus' own mouth for one - "But fear He who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Yea, I tell you, fear Him!" So I am false or twisting the words around by believing destroy means destroy and not keep alive in some kind of torment? Really? And this is just one example of how amazed I am that conditionalists like me are accused of clinging solely to emotion or trying to twist the Bible around to suit ourselves. .... Yeah, I am totally doing that.


So that's what the prayers from you on my first post were for. Not prayers for people like SnowTiger who suffer from fear of this, but sarcastic prayers for me because you think I have gone astray or something because I don't adhere to all tradition (with dang good Biblical reason for doing so). Look at the fruit of this doctrine, and tell me it is good and Godly truth.

 

[SarahsKnight]

I am sorry, @Swan7 and @CodyFaith . I was too hard on you both in my responses to you. I stand by my principles, but it was not right of me to suggest that either of you were foolish or blasphemers or uncaring because you do not believe the same as I do in this area of theology.

 

[SarahsKnight]

You are welcome to believe as you do, but please refrain from blaming others on blaspheming due to different beliefs from yours. If I understood your meaning correctly

No, Swan, what I was trying to say was that I believe that I alone would be blaspheming God if I willfully went back to the traditional view on this after everything I have seen, heard, and experienced, just because it is the majority view. But none of the rest of you are me, nor have you gone through - to my knowledge - obsessive compulsive disorder with this kind of thing like I have.

 

[Multifavs]

Can we please just try to get along? I'm tired of the arguing. I feel offended, insulted, betrayed, and hurt. I don't like when people just outright insult others' beliefs just because they don't agree. It's not nice. Please disagree respectfully and respect others.

Sorry, bad day today. I'm dealing with distress, anxiety, anger, and hurt today. I've stumbled greatly and I feel like leaving CF.

 

[Strider1002]

Lord help me if I ever try to rely on theology to save me.

 

[Swords&Sunflowers]

Hey all, there seems to be a darkness looming today, even at my workplace was crazy, and seeing the posts here, people in distress mentally, emotionally, etc...

Spoiler: Prayer

Here's a prayer.
Dear Father In Heaven,
I pray for peace for my brothers and sisters in Christ. You are not the author of confusion but of a sound mind. I speak against the powers of darkness through the authority given to me by Christ, to cease causing discord and chaos. May there be unity amongst us that glorifies You. There are many things we do not understand about the spiritual realm, but one thing we believe and know is that our hope is in Christ. Bind us together for that one purpose as Your children, to be at one. I pray for protection for our hearts and minds ,that sound doctrine prevail, as we dilligently seek the truth like the Bereans, reveal to us Your whole truth but that we won't be lost in our own understandings. Help us to be humble always. Protect everyone. And may Your peace dwell in our hearts. Forgive us of any sins. Cleanse us inside and out. In Jesus name. Amen.

 

[Multifavs]

Hey all, there seems to be a darkness looming today, even at my workplace was crazy, and seeing the posts here, people in distress mentally, emotionally, etc...

Spoiler: Prayer

Here's a prayer.
Dear Father In Heaven,
I pray for peace for my brothers and sisters in Christ. You are not the author of confusion but of a sound mind. I speak against the powers of darkness through the authority given to me by Christ, to cease causing discord and chaos. May there be unity amongst us that glorifies You. There are many things we do not understand about the spiritual realm, but one thing we believe and know is that our hope is in Christ. Bind us together for that one purpose as Your children, to be at one. I pray for protection for our hearts and minds ,that sound doctrine prevail, as we dilligently seek the truth like the Bereans, reveal to us Your whole truth but that we won't be lost in our own understandings. Help us to be humble always. Protect everyone. And may Your peace dwell in our hearts. Forgive us of any sins. Cleanse us inside and out. In Jesus name. Amen.

Thank you Swords&Sunflowers for this prayer. I think we all need it.

I know, there is too much darkness today. I feel like crying right now. I just wish we could all be happy and respectful at all times.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Can we please just try to get along? I'm tired of the arguing. I feel offended, insulted, betrayed, and hurt. I don't like when people just outright insult others' beliefs just because they don't agree. It's not nice. Please disagree respectfully and respect others.

Sorry, bad day today. I'm dealing with distress, anxiety, anger, and hurt today. I've stumbled greatly and I feel like leaving CF.

Don't leave, Multi. There is much goodness and joy here and none of us want to see you go. I am at fault. I was greatly angered at seeing someone else's suffering and I took it out on all of you with implied insults and guilt by associations. I was reckless, and I am sorry.


Again, I am sorry I went off like that and acted like you all were part of the problem of people like Snow Tiger. I was wrong to do so. I am sorry, everyone.

 

[Multifavs]

Don't leave, Multi. There is much goodness and joy here and none of us want to see you go. I am at fault. I was greatly angered at seeing someone else's suffering and I took it out on all of you with implied insults and guilt by associations. I was reckless, and I am sorry.

Again, I am sorry I went off like that and acted like you all were part of the problem of people like Snow Tiger. I was wrong to do so. I am sorry, everyone.

I forgive you, SK. I just...felt like my beliefs were being insulted, and I do not like that. It can be hard to deal with different views, but we all should be respectful towards them.

Sometimes I feel like CF has done me more harm than good, but...there are good points, as you said.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[Swords&Sunflowers]

true, there's really a lot we don't know, the Bible is made compact so we could know the most important stuff and that is the gravity of sin and the grace of God. If all spiritual matters/mysteries should be written down, oh boy....probably gonna take all eternity to understand it all with our finite minds. I mean just to study about science is already taxing, or even the complexities of dna, and the atom, or even the universe, whew! I can imagine the complexities of the invisible realm/spiritual realm.

 

[Multifavs]

I guess today has just been a crazy day for us all. I hope and pray that tomorrow will be better for us.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[SarahsKnight]

I guess today has just been a crazy day for us all. I hope and pray that tomorrow will be better for us.

But most of all for SnowTiger. Seriously, if you've seen his blog here as of the last day or so, he is really bad off.

So please let me ask again without my getting so emotionally involved this time that I preemptively blow up at everyone: regardless of whether you are a traditionalist, conditionalist, or universalist when it comes to the theology of heaven and hell, please, please pray for Snow Tiger and everyone else like him who is suffering from fear and anxiety over hell.

 

[Swords&Sunflowers]

But most of all for SnowTiger. Seriously, if you've seen his blog here as of the last day or so, he is really bad off.

So please let me ask again without my getting so emotionally involved this time that I preemptively blow up at everyone: regardless of whether you are a traditionalist, conditionalist, or universalist when it comes to the theology of heaven and hell, please, please pray for Snow Tiger and everyone else like him who is suffering from fear and anxiety.

Spoiler: Prayer for him

Dear Father In Heaven,
We lift up snow tiger to You. You see the struggles he is going through, we do not know the whole story of his life, but see that he is suffering. We pray for healing in his mind and body, may he find help soon. May whatever is causing him to fret or to be anxious, leave in the name of Jesus, whether it be a spiritual attack from the enemy or from physical causes. Father, we pray that he be free from this torment and find peace and rest. If there be any sins, may he repent and turn to You. We pray that this brother be will walk in victory, and we come against any voices that speaks confusion to him, whether it be spiritual or physical cause, we pray for freedom and healing for him. May help reach him soon, please have mercy upon his soul. Protect him from any evil. Help him fight this battle and win. In Jesus name, amen.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

.... To hell with hell. Because someone like SnowTiger in his poor mental state right now is what you get as a result.

I think its easy to think mental illness can be avoided if certain external factors didn't exist, but in the case of a symptom of a mental illness, because a person is ill even if the hell doctrine never existed their illness would get tripped up by something else unfortunately. I've read a bit of snowtigers threads and blog post and i did recommend he put his health first. I was in a similar situation as him and at some point you need to realize your limitations and work within those boundaries. Then when you get a chance to recover you can begin to do more normal things like school or work. But right now he needs to heal. I wish I would've taken time off after highschool instead of forcing myself to attend college while not fully recovered from a mental illness. I know it can be hard to accept you have an illness and you need more time than someone without an illness to finish school, but hopefully he realized his limitations and can find a way to achieve his goals within his ability.

 

[Toro]

Hell is a choice, not a punishment.

If you choose to follow Christ, you choose eternal life. (Meaning that we WANT to live as Christ did, not that we are perfect.)
If you choose the ways of flesh, you choose the death that comes with it. (We excuse our sins as "no big deal" trusting in man's justification over the words of God saying its NOT okay. Meaning we live in unremorseful rebellion to Him.)

Hell exists because WITHOUT it there is NO CHOICE. Not because God is a dictator that WANTS to torment His creation, but because He gives us choice and respects our choice even though He knows there is no joy to be found there.

How would it be love to say "You have to be with me, even if you don't want to."?

Just cause we don't like the idea of there being a Hell, doesn't change its existence.

Prayers for Snow Tiger, but IF he has turned to the Lord and if he WANTS to follow Christ..... then it is attack from the enemy saying that he is doomed. Saying "Hell doesn't exist" just cause it's not pleasant is just one MORE deception of the enemy.

It exists.... because it HAS to exist.... otherwise there is no choice.

Much like the story of the prodigal son......
We can choose to be with the loving father, that even though we squandered so much of the blessings he gave us (our inheritance which is the garden before the fall that we, through Adam.... and through our OWN disobedience have given away) he still welcomes us back with open arms. He doesnt just allows us back but RUSHES OUT to meet us when He sees us returning to Him from a long way out. (Meaning even in our filth and sin He meets us where we are.... because He loves us SO much.... even though we are unworthy to be considered as His son (or daughter).

The father in the prodigal son story doesnt FORCE his son to remain with him. Nor does the father force the sons return in his misery. It was the choice of the son to decide if he wanted to remain in his filth with the pigs, starving until he died (continue to wallow in his sins) or to return to the father, humbled, knowing he is unworthty to call himself of the family of his father, but willing to serve him as a servant.

In his return his father had mercy on him he doesn't welcome him back as a servant but as son (Just as we are adopted into the family of God through Christ). He didn't hold it against his son that he had already given him what was his and he squandered it. He didn't say "you did this to me and left". He embraced him, all sins and squandered resources forgiven, not even mentioned again.

THAT is why hell HAS to exist..... we deserve the pig pin (Hell) as we have ALL left the Father because we have followed our flesh. WE have to get up from among the pigs and slop.... turn away from that life and turn towards the direction of our Fathers house and walk, as Christ walked, until we reach His house.

How would Heaven be Heaven IF we didn't rejoice in or want anything to do with God's presence?

Remember Peter:
Matthew 10:32-33

Matthew 26:34

Peter not only denied Christ once, but THREE times.

Yet I do NOT believe that Peter was denied before the Father.

Why? Because while God's mercy DOES have its limits..... Peter WEPT bitterly. It doesnt mean that he cried a single tear or two, it tore the man up inside to his core that he had denied Jesus. He had immediate remorse for his mistake against the Lord.

We WILL make mistakes, but as long as our heart remains open and WANTS to choose the ways of Jesus over the flesh and growing in our relationship to Christ I truly believe that we are okay in our spirit skinned knees from falling and all. It is when we have no remorse of our sins, when we justify our sins, just as Adam did in the garden...(Eve gave it to me and you gave me Eve so... your fault)... that we choose flesh over spirit and claim in action that man's ways are better than God's ways.

Its all about choice, and as Rush said "If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice" We have free will and God respects it, even though He knows there is no peace, joy or love to be found there.

I believe what Snow Tiger MAY be going through is the remorse and bitter weeping that Paul experienced. He hates what he has done...... which IMO is a good sign. it is when our hearts are hard and there is no remorse much like Pharaoh that our souls are in jeopardy. I believe the enemy is simply using this remorse to beat him and beat him trying to make him give up his pursuit of Christ by wearing him down.

It is why Paul warns about fighting the good fight and continuing to run the race because the enemy will NOT make it an easy path to walk in our pursuit of and with Christ.