What would it take for Orthodoxs to come under Pope

[LittleLambofJesus]

Which groups? In Bosnia? Croats are mostly Catholic, Bosneks are mostly Muslim and Serbians are mostly Orthodox.

Sounds a lot like Israel and Turkey.

 

[KenBrauckmann]

Which, having just read this ENTIRE thread, give or take some details of the Serbo-Croatian conflict, tells me that for Orthodoxy to 'Come Under' the Pope would require a well-served meal consisting of Kosher Turkey and several 'Mea Culpas' from both sides. The whole meeting taking place while being viewed with the pinpoint accuracy of US Satelites in an Unidentified location located near or amongst the 'hidden' (yet 'clearly identified by reliable witnesses') mass graves of various Eastern European examples of how to prepare Alaskan Seals.

Did I catch everything???

Ken (sorry - this thread needed some humor and it has been a rough day here....)

 

[Asinner]

Which, having just read this ENTIRE thread, give or take some details of the Serbo-Croatian conflict, tells me that for Orthodoxy to 'Come Under' the Pope would require a well-served meal consisting of Kosher Turkey and several 'Mea Culpas' from both sides. The whole meeting taking place while being viewed with the pinpoint accuracy of US Satelites in an Unidentified location located near or amongst the 'hidden' (yet 'clearly identified by reliable witnesses') mass graves of various Eastern European examples of how to prepare Alaskan Seals.

Did I catch everything???

Ken (sorry - this thread needed some humor and it has been a rough day here....)

You are quite astute.

Love,
Christina

 

[Asinner]

Oh, and Ken . . . sorry for the rough day. Tomorrow will be a better one.

 

[KenBrauckmann]

I DID try to pay attention... honest I did!

 

[KenBrauckmann]

and thanks for the encouragement Asinner!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting thread...................

 

[vanshan]

For the Pope to return to Orthodoxy, he would likely have to renounce his heterodox beliefs, affirm the unchanged teachings of the Church, step down from his position within his heterdox communion, and be received by baptism, or perhaps through economia by chrismation alone, into the One Holy, Universal, and Apostolic Church. The consensus of the bishops of the Universal Church would determine the best way for this to take place.

Let's pray that this unfortunate division from the Church will one day end, restoring all who left, and have existed outside being one, not just symbolically, but literally one, as Christ intends for us to be.

[This view reflects the Orthodox position only, not necessarily those of Christian Forums, etc.]

Basil

 

[zaire]

There alot of money involved in this!!!!

Would the two churches just combine their billion dollar bank accounts!!??? Whos bank account do they keep? Orthodox or RC's? Which churches accountants lose their jobs?

I wouldnt be surprised if they do combine someday though. Same goes for all the protestant churches.

Im not familiar with the Orthodox churches bank details so sorry if ive spoken out of term...

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I don't think you'll find any monetary riches in the Orthodox Churches.

Mary

 

[SaintPhotios]

I am a big supporter of unity granted it is founded in a unified faith. But Rome has completely apostosized. Freemasonry has infiltrated Rome like KGB in the Russian Republic. Vatican II was an utterly Freemasonic council, and I'm afraid Rome has been sacked without the notice of the world. Even if an orthodox Pope was elected, what of all the Roman Catholic followers that have been indoctrinated with New Age modernist humanistic beliefs? They wouldn't even recognize the ancient faith.

I hate to be pessimistic... and I realize that God is sovereign and if he will it, anything can happen. But I don't see Rome rejoining the Church for many more generations, much less anytime in our lifetime.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

But Rome has completely apostosized. Freemasonry has infiltrated Rome like KGB in the Russian Republic. Vatican II was an utterly Freemasonic council, ...... Even if an orthodox Pope was elected, what of all the Roman Catholic followers that have been indoctrinated with New Age modernist humanistic beliefs?

I have liked this thread very much. I have learned a lot that I didn't know about Orthodox.
However, this thread has amazed me. Where do you get your information about Vatican II being Freemason?
I have never heard such a thing and I have been deeply interested in Vatican II since it happened.
Also, what do you mean we have been indoctrinated with "New Age modernist humanistic beliefs"?

Those statements really should be backed up with some sort of evidence or documentation.

 

[SaintPhotios]

read the Alti Vendita.... its quite "enlightening". If you haven't read it, it's a Masonic document that outlines a plot to bring the Roman Catholic Church under subordination and rule of freemasonic values. Vatican II was the first major victory. Let me quote it....

"The Pope, whoever he is will never come to secret societies; it is up to the secret societies to take the first step toward the Church, with the aim of conquering them both."

and....

"With that we shall march more securely towards the assault on the Church than with the pamphlets of our brethren in France and even the gold of England. Do you want to know the reason for this? It is that with this, in order to shatter the high rock on which God has bult His Church, we no longer need Hannibalian vinegar, or need gunpowerder, or even need our arms. We have the little finger of the successor of Peter engaged in the play, and this little finger is as good, for this crusade, as all the Urban IIs and all the Saint Bernards in Christendom."

Then Marcel Prelot, a French Freemason was quoted:

"We had struggled for a century and a half to bring our opinions to prevail with the Church and had not succeeded. Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed. From then on the propositions and principles of liberal Catholicism have been definitively and officially accepted by Holy Church."

At the news of the death of Pius XII, the old Dom Lambert Beauduin, a friend of Roncalli's (the future John XXIII) confided to Father Bouyer: "If they elect Roncalli, everything would be saved; he would be capable of calling a council and of consecrating ecumenism."

 

[xristos.anesti]

As too Serbia, the crimes it has committed on the nations of it's region far outweigh anything done by Croatia.

This a completely false statement.

Croats killed 700.000 Serbs during WWII, converted another 250.000 into Latin church and expelled another 250.000.

What "crimes" of Serbs outweigh this? Tell me MezzaMorta the historian?!

You speak rubbish brother - absolute rubbish.

 

[xristos.anesti]

How was it forced upon another?

Did they put ashes on their head or what? How did that go down? Knives to throats? How does one force a conversion?

I do not find this funny -

they placed a knife under one's throat and made him/her convert to Roman Catholicism.


[SIZE=+1](Baron) Avro Manhattan: "The Vatican's Holocaust", under similar photograph, on page 68, says (quote): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1] "Converting" the Orthodox Serbs, December 21st, 1941, Friars, besides Priests, participated in forcible conversions. They were no less ruthless than the parish clergy, e.g. Monk Ambrozije Novak, Guardian of the Capucine Monastery in Varazdin, who, after surrounding the village of Mosanica with Ustashi contingents, told the people: [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]"You Serbs are condemned to death, and you can only escape that sentence by accepting Catholicism."[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Catholic Padres did not hesitate to liquidate those who resisted. Witness Father Dr. Dragutin Kamber, a Jesuit priest and sworn Ustashi, who ordered the killing of 300 Orthodox Serbs in Doboj... Or Father Dr. Branimir Zupanic, who had more than 400 people killed in one village alone: Ragoje. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Father Srecko Peric, of the Gorica Monastery, near Livno [Herzegovina], advocated mass murders with the wollowing words: "Kill all Serbs. And when you finish come here, to Church, and I will confess you and free you from sin."[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] This resulted in a massacre, on August 10th, 1941, during which over 5,600 Orthodox Serbs in the district of Livno alone lost their lives. [/SIZE]
​

[SIZE=+1] (End quote).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]​

Further information:

WIKI - Independent State of Croatia

Jasenovac Concetration Camp

Some of the Crimes of Croats in WWII

 

[xristos.anesti]

Now,

as far as the OP is concerned,

Only one is needed - Rome should denounce her heterodox teachings, return to formulae before AD 1054 and then we would be able to talk.

Apart from this - unfortunatelly there is no much chance for any true unity.

Many years -

 

[xristos.anesti]

No one was innocent in the conflict, but if some side holds responsibility for the VAST majority of the systematic and organized mass murder and ethnic cleansing it was the Serbians. Not only in Bosnia, but as well Kosovo, Croatia and they tried in Slovenia and Macedonia.

Serbia had concentration camps, execution chambers and carried out the largest genocide in Europe’s history since the Nazis.

This is a lie - you have no idea what you are speaking about.

Genocide is what Nazis did to Jews, Slavs and Gypsies - it is extermination of all members - especially females (because of reproduction) - this is not what Serbs did during the civil war - we moved them (others) - they moved us - I know - I was at a gun point evicted from my house in 1991 - there was no genocide in Ex Yugo since 1941-1945 when Croats killed Serbs and Jews and Gypsies.

Serbs did not commit genocide - the only accusation in the World Court (that was found to be not proven in the ruling of this court last year) was that we committed ethnical cleansing - which is exactly what everyone committed since day dot in their own time - including Arabs, Jews, English etc... even East Timorese - which is one of the newest nations. World court found that no side in the civil war in former Yugo is to be made an example as it was a general modus operandi during the time observed - everyone did it.

Killing 700.000 and converting 250.000 to Latin heresy is in no way similar with acts of improper war (which have been admitted and people have been and are prosecuted) during the civil war in Ex Yugo - whatever Serbs did to Moslems - Moslems did to Serbs. Whatever Serbs did to Albanians - Albanians are now doing to Serbs.

I am not saying nor defending actions of criminals - far from it - I was as much against Milosevic as I was against other haters from Ex Yu - but to compare what happen in the civil war with genocide is just not correct -


It is way wrong argument to present situation in a way as to prove who is worse or who is better - because it seems that one needs to defend the government of the day - but, what MezzaMorta is saying is incorrect and as someone who went trough hell of Balkans and whose elders got exterminated by the very people my Lebanese brother is defending I do feel somewhat sensitive -

Criminals should not be defended, they should be prosecuted - but ALL criminals - not just those of one side making that side look worse that others - yes we are all guilty - however, only Serbs will admit to this - we were the only ones to let CNN and BBC to come and visit the prisons - others did not, not because they were innocent and did not have any - they were just smarter.

The information presented to you is one sided. Always will be -

People of the world know that there can be only one bad guy and that everyone else is innocent - however, this is not the case -

So, in reaction to this one-sidedness I have to say things that seem to say that I am defending anyone - I am not -

It is just annoying to see things like this being written -

We do not live in vacuum - everything that happens does have its historical reason -

When former Yugo was about to collapse Serbs were majority - however if the states were to become independent we would have been minority in all other states but Serbia - so, going from the history - that teaches that every time we were minority we got exterminated, thus the people were not happy to became minority again - 1941 is not a year that people can not remember - my mother does remember it.

So, when all the nations decided to take their land out of the federation we decided to take our land out of their states and stay in the federation - thus the war -

There were bad things that we did - but those bad things were done by all - it was not genocide - Serbs have never committed genocide but were the victim of it -

so, please MezzaMorte - stop talking lies, stop talking about things you know nothing about.

To tell you the truth I have never been as disgusted on these forums as I am now that I have read your lies.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

read the Alti Vendita.... its quite "enlightening". If you haven't read it, it's a Masonic document that outlines a plot to bring the Roman Catholic Church under subordination and rule of freemasonic values. Vatican II was the first major victory. Let me quote it....

"The Pope, whoever he is will never come to secret societies; it is up to the secret societies to take the first step toward the Church, with the aim of conquering them both."

and....

"With that we shall march more securely towards the assault on the Church than with the pamphlets of our brethren in France and even the gold of England. Do you want to know the reason for this? It is that with this, in order to shatter the high rock on which God has bult His Church, we no longer need Hannibalian vinegar, or need gunpowerder, or even need our arms. We have the little finger of the successor of Peter engaged in the play, and this little finger is as good, for this crusade, as all the Urban IIs and all the Saint Bernards in Christendom."

Then Marcel Prelot, a French Freemason was quoted:

"We had struggled for a century and a half to bring our opinions to prevail with the Church and had not succeeded. Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed. From then on the propositions and principles of liberal Catholicism have been definitively and officially accepted by Holy Church."

At the news of the death of Pius XII, the old Dom Lambert Beauduin, a friend of Roncalli's (the future John XXIII) confided to Father Bouyer: "If they elect Roncalli, everything would be saved; he would be capable of calling a council and of consecrating ecumenism."

I will, indeed save this and study it.
On the surface it doesn't prove much about your statements on Vatican II or, in fact, "new age". But, I will spend some time reading.
I have been a strong defender of Vatican II and I love John XIII. I do not believe Vatican II brought liberalism into the church but brought Her back to a more orthodox (small o) way of worship with the Charismatic Renewal, the vernacular and the participation of the congregation in worship. If nothing else, allowing the Holy Spirit to be alive in the Church and the manisfestation of the Charisms and miracles in the Church and the Fruits of the Spirit being in evidence must be a good thing.
I have been involved with Ecumenism, within the guidlines of the Church and I can assure you, they leave no room for compromise but only open the doors to love, respect and understanding.
At my age, I have lived with the Pre-Vatican II bigotry and hatred that existed because of the high, thick denominational walls. It was ugly and no one can convince me it was of God. I was part of it, absolutely hated anything Roman Catholic and would have died to destroy it. I know what this sort of hatred is. It is not of God, of that I can assure you. The root sin is Pride.
I own God and you don't. That simple. I have the truth and you don't. That simple.

The fact is, we all, Christians have some of the Truth. As a Catholic Charismatic, I believe that we have lost our focus along the way. I know the Holy Spirit is still alive in the Catholic Church and in the Orthodox Church. But, I want to see activity. ALL of the gifts, not just the ones you happen to be comfortable with. All of the Fruits. I want to see conversions (I do not mean changing your denominational name). People coming to the Lord.

If that is free mason, it would surprise me. I think it is ancient, orthodox Christian.

 

[Dorothea]

Mi scusi, but I am both Italian and Sicilian, AND I am Orthodox... you do not get to claim those for Catholicism.

Well, I guess I'm the uniter because I love Greek and Italian food.

 

[Dorothea]

I do not find this funny -

they placed a knife under one's throat and made him/her convert to Roman Catholicism.



[SIZE=+1](Baron) Avro Manhattan: "The Vatican's Holocaust", under similar photograph, on page 68, says (quote): [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]"Converting" the Orthodox Serbs, December 21st, 1941, Friars, besides Priests, participated in forcible conversions. They were no less ruthless than the parish clergy, e.g. Monk Ambrozije Novak, Guardian of the Capucine Monastery in Varazdin, who, after surrounding the village of Mosanica with Ustashi contingents, told the people: [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]"You Serbs are condemned to death, and you can only escape that sentence by accepting Catholicism."[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Catholic Padres did not hesitate to liquidate those who resisted. Witness Father Dr. Dragutin Kamber, a Jesuit priest and sworn Ustashi, who ordered the killing of 300 Orthodox Serbs in Doboj... Or Father Dr. Branimir Zupanic, who had more than 400 people killed in one village alone: Ragoje. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Father Srecko Peric, of the Gorica Monastery, near Livno [Herzegovina], advocated mass murders with the wollowing words: "Kill all Serbs. And when you finish come here, to Church, and I will confess you and free you from sin."[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] This resulted in a massacre, on August 10th, 1941, during which over 5,600 Orthodox Serbs in the district of Livno alone lost their lives. [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=+1](End quote).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]​

Further information:

WIKI - Independent State of Croatia

Jasenovac Concetration Camp

Some of the Crimes of Croats in WWII

I didn't know this history. How incredibly tragic and sad.