What would it take for Orthodoxs to come under Pope

[Mary of Bethany]

You mean you didn't hear.......Faith is evidence of the things not seen. Icons do nothing to bring belief to others.

Young) John 20:29 Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed

I think you misunderstand EC's point. He was not saying that Icons are used as proof of Christ's Incarnation - like they can cause someone to believe in Christ. What he was trying to say is that *because* Christ became Man, we can portray Him and His Saints in "painted Scripture" (Icons), and that these things are wonderful at showing Scripture to those who could/can not read.

Mary

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think they can be a useful tool, such as music, movies, tracts, etc have all been useful in spreading the message but they do not bring faith and should remain in proper perspective.


ESV
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Most religions have "icons" but yet Christianity views them as "pagan" because of them, even though they also say it helps them "believe".

http://www.christianforums.com/t5635831-would-people-leave-the-us-if-sharia-laws-were-enacted.html

 

[E.C.]

For those who so say "show me proof that God was really on earth" one brings an old icon.

The icon itself shows that yes, God was on the earth. Whenever Christ is depicted, the letters ICXC show above Him and in his halo are three Greek letters that are an acronym for "He Who Is" or something like that.

So really, when one asks about Orthodoxy (in the real 3-D non-Internet world) one is usually shown an icon at least fifteen trillion times.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I think you misunderstand EC's point. He was not saying that Icons are used as proof of Christ's Incarnation - like they can cause someone to believe in Christ. What he was trying to say is that *because* Christ became Man, we can portray Him and His Saints in "painted Scripture" (Icons), and that these things are wonderful at showing Scripture to those who could/can not read.

Mary

so would you say any of the Icons of Christ are accurate depictions? Matter for another thread, no doubt, just curious.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

For those who so say "show me proof that God was really on earth" one brings an old icon.

I doubt if that will convince the atheists.

 

[E.C.]

I think you misunderstand EC's point. He was not saying that Icons are used as proof of Christ's Incarnation - like they can cause someone to believe in Christ. What he was trying to say is that *because* Christ became Man, we can portray Him and His Saints in "painted Scripture" (Icons), and that these things are wonderful at showing Scripture to those who could/can not read.

Mary

That... was it.

Thank you for helping explain what I was trying to say.

Most religions have "icons" but yet Christianity views them as "pagan" because of them, even though they also say it helps them "believe".

Icons are ok. Statues are not. Statues are considered pagan.

Icons are typically written, not painted. Venerated, not worshiped. And usually mistaken for paintings.

 

[mont974x4]

For those who so say "show me proof that God was really on earth" one brings an old icon.

The icon itself shows that yes, God was on the earth. Whenever Christ is depicted, the letters ICXC show above Him and in his halo are three Greek letters that are an acronym for "He Who Is" or something like that.

So really, when one asks about Orthodoxy (in the real 3-D non-Internet world) one is usually shown an icon at least fifteen trillion times.

I do understand why some people think they need those things.

Remember, the Bible tells us that creation itself testifies and He wrote the law on our hearts...we are without excuse and really, we need to just look around to see proof.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Icons are ok. Statues are not. Statues are considered pagan.

Icons are typically written, not painted. Venerated, not worshiped. And usually mistaken for paintings.

I guess I am confused on what an "icon" actually is.
For example, would these be considered "icons"?

 

[E.C.]

Icon of the Resurrection:

That is an example of an icon in the Orthodox usage.

 

[Thekla]

so would you say any of the Icons of Christ are accurate depictions? Matter for another thread, no doubt, just curious.

the one I referred to earlier was an accurate depiction of the Mother of Christ -- and the apostles concurred that they looked very much alike.

 

[Asinner]

While I enjoy history, and such artifacts are a key to that enjoyment, we must be careful because of the dangers of idolotry and the no-no about making images.

Orthodox Christians worship the Holy Trinity. Icons point us to Jesus Christ only. If you are interested in the dangers of idolatry, look no further than at the keyboard you are typing on. How much time per day do you spend in front of it?

But to be fair, I'm also against having crosses in the church or as jewlery for the same reasons.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor

This is not something I try to force on others, as I see it as an area of freedom....but I do caution, because the danger is very real.

The only thing dangerous here is your own self-appointed authority in interpreting Scripture and coming to these erroneous conclusions.

Love,
Christina

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

the one I referred to earlier was an accurate depiction of the Mother of Christ -- and the apostles concurred that they looked very much alike.

Hi. Can you show me the Scriptures where they concurred on what she looked like?
Actually I bought this book in the "bargain bin" for about 10 bucks and my wife and I actually enjoy it sometimes. Lots of nice pictures and the story told simply.
In fact, I would rather new Christians coming to Christ read a book like this first then start on a regular Bible.

http://www.amazon.com/Childrens-Illustrated-Bible-best-loved-Testaments/dp/0754810968

 

[Asinner]

I do understand why some people think they need those things.

Kind of like a crutch for us weaker brethren? Do you realize how offensive you are?

Remember, the Bible tells us that creation itself testifies and He wrote the law on our hearts...we are without excuse and really, we need to just look around to see proof.

Then we should worship outdoors? What is your point? From the Church's perspective, icons lift our minds up to Heaven. White walls make this very difficult.



Love,
Christina

 

[Thekla]

Hi. Can you show me the Scriptures where they concurred on what she looked like?
Actually I bought this book in the "bargain bin" for about 10 bucks and my wife and I actually enjoy it sometimes. Lots of nice pictures and the story told simply.
In fact, I would rather new Christians coming to Christ read a book like this first then start on a regular Bible.

http://www.amazon.com/Childrens-Illustrated-Bible-best-loved-Testaments/dp/0754810968

the earlier post referred to tradition as did the second post

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

the earlier post referred to tradition as did the second post

But of course.

[ISA] Z@karyah 8:23 Thus sayeth YHWH-of Hosts: in-Days, the-those, which They-shall-take-fast/hold a-hem/wing, Ten Mortals, from-all Tongues-of the-Nations.
And-They-hold in-hem-of a-Man, a-Y@huwdiy, to-say We-are-going with-You that We-hear Elohiym with-You.

Mark 6:56 And wheresoever He went into villages, or into cities, or into fields/hamlets in the marketplaces, they place the being sick and were beseeching Him that only the fringe of the garment of Him they may be touching, and as manysoever as touch of Him/it, were saved.

 

[mont974x4]

Kind of like a crutch for us weaker brethren? Do you realize how offensive you are?




Then we should worship outdoors? What is your point? From the Church's perspective, icons lift our minds up to Heaven. White walls make this very difficult.



Love,
Christina

The truth does offend some. I understand.

So does reading more into peoples post and twisting what they say, but such is life.

 

[Sothron]

The truth does offend some. I understand.

So does reading more into peoples post and twisting what they say, but such is life.

Your version of truth is something I find more amusing than offensive but I can only speak for myself.

However I would suggest that your thinly veiled insults against Orthodox Christians are not needed if you want to keep a respectful dialogue.

 

[Asinner]

The truth does offend some. I understand.

So does reading more into peoples post and twisting what they say, but such is life.

I understand your perspective. I was a righteous protestant, too.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't tend to veil things, we are told to let your yes be yes and your no be no.

 

[Sothron]

I don't tend to veil things, we are told to let your yes be yes and your no be no.

We are also told to turn the other cheek.