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What turns me away

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by primarymay, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Sounds like you want a show, some miraculous entertainment, not a relationship with God. Above all, though, the Christian life is about knowing and having loving fellowship with God. Miraculous demonstrations have little to nothing to do with these things.

    Jesus had hard things to say to those in his day who wanted a miraculous sign from him:

    Matthew 12:38-39
    38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
    39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign...


    The "spiritual abilities" the Bible teaches us are common to every true disciple of Christ are things like love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, holiness and so on. A wicked, selfish heart made holy and faithful to God is a greater miracle than any physical healing.
     
  2. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Let me ask you something, is it healthy to have faith in an invisible entity. Is it healthy to believe in something you can't prove and call that a relationship?
     
  3. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Yes
     
  4. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Well go ahead and explain to me how having a relationship that's largely non sensory is healthy.
     
  5. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    As a former atheist I know that nothing I say will convince you of anything.”anyone can come to God ,but no one does unless the Spirit calls him . ball is on His side of the court ,so to speak—not yours.please read romans 1:18 and continue through to the next few chapters and pray God opens your eyes.God will give you eyes to see if you sincerely desire the m. I will pray for you knowing full well you think it isawaste of time."...I used to also.Get back to me if if you want..".I’m no genius but I have seen both sides of our de bate
     
  6. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Well there you go, it's not up to you or any Christian to convince me.

    So why do Christians bother trying?

    If only god can draw someone near, what is the use of all your prozterlizing.

    Christianity is sure a big ball of contradictions.
     
  7. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    I was trying to help you.i have been where you are.I know both sides of the equation.you don’t.did it bewilder you to get a Christian response in a Christian forum?let me know if you ever read romans.. otherwise it was nice to meet you.....best of luck
     
  8. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    I know three sides of the equation.

    Non believer
    Believer
    Ex believer
     
  9. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    I have faith in numbers; I believe numbers exist. They aren't visible, or tangible, however. You can't boil the number 5 in a test tube, or weigh the number 5 on a scale. Same thing with, say, integrity. I believe integrity exists, but it isn't accessible to my physical senses. I can't tell you where you can go to buy a pound of integrity. You can't bend or stretch integrity, or burn it with a torch. Nonetheless, integrity exists. If I can believe confidently that these intangible, invisible things exist, why should it be a problem for me to believe in God who is likewise invisible and intangible and beyond the boundaries of empirical testing?

    As for proving God exists, well, there is certainly ample evidence that He does. And there are many logically airtight arguments that prove Him to be real: the Kalam Cosmological Argument, the Ontological Argument, the many Teleological Arguments, the Argument from Morality, etc. I don't, then, believe in something for which I have no evidence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    I don't pretend to understand it fully myself but all the evidence is that people who practice a religion are mentally and physically healthier than those that do not. Religious belief is not incompatible with being mentally healthy, in fact for many people it is part of a healthy life.

    I wouldn't say all Christian practice is non-sensory. Nor is every kind of Christianity dependent on "a relationship with Jesus" in the sense of immediate intimacy. My own tradition focuses heavily on mediation of God through ritual and community, in fact most Christians practice this form of religion in one form or another.

    There are plenty of stories of those sorts of things happening. I don't want to get into philosophical debates at the moment about what is credible, and what is not . There certainly are alot of stories, though, and if stories are what you are after, they are out there.

    This notion of "supernatural" vs. "natural" is philosophically problematic in its own right.

    Ultimately, what we will believe is down to ones presuppositions more than actual evidence.

    To those who wish to believe, no evidence is necessary. To those who do not wish to believe, no evidence will suffice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  11. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

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    You actually exclude two very large groups of people in that assumption. People who do wish to believe, but cannot do so because they lack the necessary evidence and people who do not believe but would start to do so if there was enough 'reasonable' reason for it.
     
  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    For the most part, people don't disbelieve due to lack of evidence. They disbelieve because they have not cleared heard the Gospel, or they have heard, but they find the Gospel offensive.
     
  13. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

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    It's quite a value judgement to state that "for the most part, people don't disbelieve due to lack of evidence". How can you possibly know that? I would argue the other way around. Most people don't believe 'because' of the lack of evidence they claim
     
  14. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Well if there was enough evidence, we wouldn't need to believe.
     
  15. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Romans reveals the true reason....their eyes have been blinded to the truth by the god of this world...pray that you will be given eyes to see
     
  16. Archie Dupont

    Archie Dupont New Member

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    My problem exactly with the way some people act religiously. If I were a non believer I would roll my eyes when someone told me they pray I should be given eyes. This metaphorical talk that avoids the actual question is kryptonite for non believers. Why do people think that is the way into a non believers heart is beyond me..
     
  17. Stormy

    Stormy Senior Contributor

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    So you want powers? Me too. I would like to walk on water and cure cancer. That would make for a good Monday. Then on to the rest of the week.
    It hasn't been like that for me. Instead I buried two of my children, and life hasn't been that easy. And yet, I still know love. I still have hope. I don't know where I would be without Christ in my heart. Miracles are cool. But getting through this life and being reunited with my kids and touching the face of Jesus... That will be my miracle.
    I hope to see you there too
     
  18. Stormy

    Stormy Senior Contributor

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    Just wanted to add. I have seen and been a participate in miracles and that has not deepen my faith.. To the contrary.. I know what God can do and yet... I buried my kids. After I hug Jesus, I plan on asking WHY! But something tells me at that point I will know
     
  19. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    You say that like you absolutely know where you're going, and what the weather will be like there.
     
  20. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Ned Flander’s Buddy

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    Archie. I am not “religious .I am extremely UN-religious.
    The tragedy of Christianity is that many' ,perhaps the majority, have turned it into a religion.I used to be an atheist and all I can do is pass on to you and others what I know worked for me .of course the non believer rolls his eyes..that makes my point....he has absolutely
    No Spiritual discernment and will not have it until he leaves his Fool’s Paradise.please tell me the actual question I am avoiding

    ,
     
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