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You've already forgotten who Israel was.
Genesis 17:12
And who Israel is.
Romans 9:6-8
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If you really want to know why Israel will have a temple and why Christians have not replaced Israel , it requires the time to learn what is true and not just what some say is true , this idea of condemning Israel and those Jews is growing without merit
I can agree with that , but concerning the temple , i just go with what the scripture says , and that those in Israel have their heart set on it , so that indicates to me it will happen , another aspect is that , it seems that most people that say it won't happen are amil and do not believe there will be a coming man of lawlessness who will go into a temple and sit in a throne and declare himself to be God - so if they can find someone - Anyone at all in the past that made that claim then in their eyes that prophecy be fulfilled , even though there is much much more than that to the prophecy that has not happenedI am not trying to tell them that. I am pro Israel myself. Was super glad trump built the embassy in Jerusalem etc. I do not know how things are gonna end up with them. I just disagree that a temple will be built.
Romans 11You've already forgotten who Israel was.
Genesis 17:12
And who Israel is.
Romans 9:6-8
Romans 11
You need to read all the bible , then properly interpret it - that is what you forgot to do
I don't recall anyone saying true redemption or salvation path is in the church as the church cannot provide redemption or salvation to anyone not even themselvesRom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; (ESV)
In Romans 11 Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelite branches and believing Gentile branches grafted into the same tree.
There is no path to salvation outside of the Church found in the passage.
Verse 26 refers back to verse 23.
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I don't recall anyone saying true redemption or salvation path is in the church as the church cannot provide redemption or salvation to anyone not even themselves
For there is only One Person that can give redemption and salvation who is the One and Only True Messiah Jesus Thee Messiah
The only path to redemption salvation is found in HIM and no one else
Give Praise to the LORD Jesus
I am a mil as well.I can agree with that , but concerning the temple , i just go with what the scripture says , and that those in Israel have their heart set on it , so that indicates to me it will happen , another aspect is that , it seems that most people that say it won't happen are amil and do not believe there will be a coming man of lawlessness who will go into a temple and sit in a throne and declare himself to be God - so if they can find someone - Anyone at all in the past that made that claim then in their eyes that prophecy be fulfilled , even though there is much much more than that to the prophecy that has not happened
Since the "Church" is made up of all of those individuals who have placed their faith in Christ, since His death at Calvary, your statement above is double-talk.
Since the "Church" is made up of all of those individuals who have placed their faith in Christ, since His death at Calvary, your statement above is double-talk.
Once a person comes to faith in Christ, they automatically become a part of Christ's Church, revealed in Matthew chapter 16.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
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Once a person comes to faith in Christ, they automatically become a part of Christ's Church, revealed in Matthew chapter 16.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
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Thanks for including Romans 11. I neglected to do so.Romans 11
You need to read all the bible , then properly interpret it - that is what you forgot to do
Good post IMOThanks for including Romans 11. I neglected to do so.
Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
1 Peter 1
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
"His people which He foreknew" is a reference to true believers, represented by the "7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal", and further characterized as the "remnant" and the "elect", which are also references to true believers.
Romans 10
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
The last verse of Romans 10 is a reference to national Israel. As disobedient and gainsaying, they will be cast away, except for those who repent and believe. In Romans 11:1 Paul acknowledges that ethnically he is a citizen of disobedient and gainsaying national Israel, so he inquires whether he is among those who will be cast away. But he then immediately distinguishes himself and all true believers as "His people which He foreknew", and the "elect", and the "remnant". These will not be cast away, even though they are citizens of the unbelieving, disobedient and gainsaying national Israel who will be cast away.
Romans 11:23 further describes the condition which must be met to be included in God's Own Israel, all true believers.
The Romans 11 chapter continues to clarify the definition of God's Own Israel, all true believers, which is found earlier in Romans 2:28-29 and 9:6-8.
"All Israel" in Romans 11:26 is a reiteration of "all Israel" in Romans 9:6. It too is a reference to the believing, faithful, obedient, elect, remnant -- "His people which He foreknew".
Good post IMO
The Israel of God is the whole people of faith which ekklesia being the church of the firstborn. I believe (unless convinced otherwise) means those which have a double portion. The natural sons Heirs in the earthly portion in Abraham, are the firstborn having received the heavenly portion as well. Born again.
Your focus is on the church and not the One who establishes it
Yes. I think I have already done that but I will be happy to do it againThanks and blessings.
Could you explain, citing Scripture, "The natural sons Heirs in the earthly portion in Abraham..."?
I have already spoken of this as well. Maybe I am on two threads here? LOL.I can agree with that , but concerning the temple , i just go with what the scripture says , and that those in Israel have their heart set on it , so that indicates to me it will happen , another aspect is that , it seems that most people that say it won't happen are amil and do not believe there will be a coming man of lawlessness who will go into a temple and sit in a throne and declare himself to be God - so if they can find someone - Anyone at all in the past that made that claim then in their eyes that prophecy be fulfilled , even though there is much much more than that to the prophecy that has not happened
I can relate to your point of view , I can see that people may have different understandings from how they may read something and compare that something to what has happened in the past , I can also see that we can look at what is happening in the present and see that things on the world scene is shaping up and fulfill scripture equally as well and even better than how some see past history , the key is - evidence - example say that a prophecy has 10 facets of it to be fulfilled by a person and a person in the past fulfills 8 of those 10 - some people will reason that is good enough to say the person has fulfilled it as it happened 1500 years ago , that is not fulfilling the prophecy because all 10 facets have to be fulfilled in the man , but because no other man has come on the scene - it becomes assumed that it was fulfilled by that man .I have already spoken of this as well. Maybe I am on two threads here? LOL.
The coins minted by leaders of the revolts from Rome could have fulfilled these things.
One such Messiah proclaimed as Messiah by the leader in the Sanhedrin was bar kochba. there were great swelling words said of him. Which had coins minted as him sitting above the ark and the seat of mercy in the temple in the image of a star. Inscriptions on the coins declaring Israel's redemption under him.
So the coins could have been a fulfillment of who bar kochba (bar kochba = son of a star) was and what he was doing.
some of the teachings on the star prophesy were exceedingly boastful.
All I can say is this. How did people see things back then...I can relate to your point of view , I can see that people may have different understandings from how they may read something and compare that something to what has happened in the past , I can also see that we can look at what is happening in the present and see that things on the world scene is shaping up and fulfill scripture equally as well and even better than how some see past history , the key is - evidence - example say that a prophecy has 10 facets of it to be fulfilled by a person and a person in the past fulfills 8 of those 10 - some people will reason that is good enough to say the person has fulfilled it as it happened 1500 years ago , that is not fulfilling the prophecy because all 10 facets have to be fulfilled in the man , but because no other man has come on the scene - it becomes assumed that it was fulfilled by that man .
Just as the scripture that says , there will be scoffers saying where is the promise of Jesus coming , 2000 years past and he has not yet come back - so they assume he will not , just as it was assumed that Moses would not return because he took longer than they expected him to return.
Gods Holy Word says Jesus will return and reign with the saints for 1000 years , why people do not believe God -because they are thinking in a human carnal manner just like those who thought Jesus and Moses would not return .
The bible makes it abundantly clear that GOD IS sending a strong delusion , in the form of a man , not only will he claim to be God , but he is given the power to perform signs and wonders which literally mean supernatural events that will cause people to believe he really is God and will willing bow down to him and serve him- it is much much more than just another guy who proclaims he is God and makes demands on people , but a man that can work supernatural
wonders that convince the majority of the population of earth to believe he really is God , as Jesus says the man will do it so convincingly that the very elect would believe it if they did not know beforehand to expect such a strong delusion to occur
After this man has had his time - Jesus physically returns to earth and reigns on earth while satan is locked in the pit for 1000 years
Now consider if you told people you were going to cook a turkey for supper
would you not expect people to believe what you said is what you meant ?
When reading scripture - or anything for that matter - read it it in plain sense , just in the same way you have a conversation , it be obvious when a person is speaking in plain sense and when they are speaking in a symbolic way , and all too often people hide behind the excuse that because the bible uses some symbolism -it mostly does not, it is not good sense to assume all is symbolic to make it mean what someone prefers it mean
When people speak of a man in the past that proclaimed he is God , he did not present the strong delusion that God is sending - and since Gods Words tells us plainly that Jesus will return to earth - it is good sense to believe what it says
I do not see how that applies to what I said - so it may mean you do not know what I said or referring to - so I will rephrase itAll I can say is this. How did people see things back then...
Ex 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Yet we have this said...Ga 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
I think we have two aspects of speaking about gods here.
Those which rule as god's over the people, vs those which are gods by nature. Kinda like Paul spoke of animals being considered clean or unclean.
Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
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You continue to fail to understand that that had been what the Nation Israel had been expected to believe, which is why Peter preaches that had been the case in Acts 2 and 3; why Paul preaches that to Jews, throughout Acts; and why he mentions it in Romans 10, right in the middle of his explanation in Romans 9-11 of how Israel fell.
"Israel fell" ???
"Get a clue, already" ???
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Who do you think "the twelve tribes" would be?
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