What Power Does Satan Have?

[yashualover]

Yes, the commandments which come from God are righteous, and ultimately attributed to Him; but we are declared righteous in the Lord's eyes when we pursue His wisdom, follow his commandments and seek Him out in everything we do.

Ezekiel 18:9 - if he (a man) walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully-- he is righteous and will surely live," declares the Lord GOD.

And just to balance things out, let's remember:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Ecclesiastes 7:16 - Do not be excessively righteous and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?

-A

Php 2:12 And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.

Who is doing the work? answer God.

We have nothing to boast about except in the cross.

 

[k2svpete]

Mate I subscribe to the scriptural position that there is no supernatural satan/devil floating around. As Paul outlines in Romans 5-7, it is the carnal mind and sin that is at enmity with God, nothing else.

James 1 tells us that we are tempted by ourselves, nothing more.

The OT doesn't go on about a supernatural satan and as this is what Christ and his disciples taught people out of then there is no place for it.

To try and have another being that we could possibly think has power anything like God's is surely blasphemy. To try and blame another thing, other than ourselves, for our sin is abrogating responsibility and failing to appreciate the depth of God's grace and mercy toward us.

 

[armothe]

Php 2:12 And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.

Who is doing the work? answer God.

Actually, God producing the desire is not the same as God doing the work. Why else would He have written through Paul that they should work out their salvation.

If our labor for God wasn't necessary then why was it commanded for us to prove ourselves blameless & innocent in verse 15, or to obey in verse 12?

It seems that if God was doing all the work - the commands to follow His wisdom and instruction are pointless.

-A

 

[yashualover]

Actually, God producing the desire is not the same as God doing the work. Why else would He have written through Paul that they should work out their salvation.

If our labor for God wasn't necessary then why was it commanded for us to prove ourselves blameless & innocent in verse 15, or to obey in verse 12?

It seems that if God was doing all the work - the commands to follow His wisdom and instruction are pointless.

-A

The point is, if God does not will for you to do good, you would never be able to on your own.

He gets all the glory, we get NONE,ZERO,ZIP,

 

[armothe]

The point is, if God does not will for you to do good, you would never be able to on your own.

One would think God desires everyone to do good?

-A

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Mate I subscribe to the scriptural position that there is no supernatural satan/devil floating around. As Paul outlines in Romans 5-7, it is the carnal mind and sin that is at enmity with God, nothing else.

James 1 tells us that we are tempted by ourselves, nothing more.

The OT doesn't go on about a supernatural satan and as this is what Christ and his disciples taught people out of then there is no place for it.

To try and have another being that we could possibly think has power anything like God's is surely blasphemy. To try and blame another thing, other than ourselves, for our sin is abrogating responsibility and failing to appreciate the depth of God's grace and mercy toward us.

Yet James calls worldy wisdom demonic? And then tells us to resist the Devil . . . and He will flee . . . sorry your position is not that scriptural. Nice try trying to bring it back around though.

 

[k2svpete]

Yet James calls worldy wisdom demonic? And then tells us to resist the Devil . . . and He will flee . . . sorry your position is not that scriptural. Nice try trying to bring it back around though.

Wisdom of the world is indeed worldly and not of God. Which is why it is important to read and apply scripture around this issue, rather than subscribing to worldly wisdom and the creation of a supernatural satan.

Remeber devil = accuser/slanderer. Who/what is that? The carnal mind (Rom 5-7), our sinful flesh. So, by the renewing of our minds through scripture and learning and applying God's characteristics we repress the carnal mind.

Now that's not scriptural how?

 

[yashualover]

One would think God desires everyone to do good?

-A

God does not desire something that is impossible.

 

[armothe]

God does not desire something that is impossible.

One would think God wills everyone to do good.

-A

 

[yashualover]

One would think God wills everyone to do good.

-A

The natural man can not do good, he will always choose sin, his good is as filthy rags in the eyes of God.

 

[armothe]

The natural man can not do good, he will always choose sin, his good is as filthy rags in the eyes of God.

Does God will for every man to do good?

-A

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Wisdom of the world is indeed worldly and not of God. Which is why it is important to read and apply scripture around this issue, rather than subscribing to worldly wisdom and the creation of a supernatural satan.

Remeber devil = accuser/slanderer. Who/what is that? The carnal mind (Rom 5-7), our sinful flesh. So, by the renewing of our minds through scripture and learning and applying God's characteristics we repress the carnal mind.

Now that's not scriptural how?

Uh . . . did Jesus have a carnal nature? Was He fallen?

 

[k2svpete]

Uh . . . did Jesus have a carnal nature? Was He fallen?

Yes he did and no he didn't fail. As he was the only one to achieve this, that is how he fulfilled the law and defeated death.

As Jesus was of the same mind as God and embodied His characteristics, Jesus was able to overcome temptation. We are weaker than he so while we are instructed to put off our old selves (as signified in baptism) God and Jesus both know that we will still stumble. Only through God's enduring love and grace are we forgiven, despite knowing better.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Yes he did and no he didn't fail. As he was the only one to achieve this, that is how he fulfilled the law and defeated death.

As Jesus was of the same mind as God and embodied His characteristics, Jesus was able to overcome temptation. We are weaker than he so while we are instructed to put off our old selves (as signified in baptism) God and Jesus both know that we will still stumble. Only through God's enduring love and grace are we forgiven, despite knowing better.

No Jesus did not have a fallen/carnal nature . . . hence the carnal man does not understand God.

So then, if Jesus did not have a fallen/carnal nature . . . then how does the fallen/carnal nature tempt Him? . . .

 

[armothe]

No Jesus did not have a fallen/carnal nature

Your statement here is based on the assumption that everyone else does. So really you are attempting to prove a point based on a point that has yet to be proven. Similar to defining a word using itself as a definition.

-A

 

[yashualover]

Does God will for every man to do good?

-A

He does not will it but commands it.
Every human being is responsible and are deserving of hell. He wills for his children to do His good pleasure.
If God does not will that a dead man live he will remain dead until his physical death.

 

[armothe]

He does not will it but commands it.
Every human being is responsible and are deserving of hell. He wills for his children to do His good pleasure.
If God does not will that a dead man live he will remain dead until his physical death.

So then God commands the impossible, since there are those who do not do His will.

-A

 

[k2svpete]

No Jesus did not have a fallen/carnal nature . . . hence the carnal man does not understand God.

So then, if Jesus did not have a fallen/carnal nature . . . then how does the fallen/carnal nature tempt Him? . . .

Think about what you've just written. If Jesus was not subject to the flesh then how could he be tempted? How could he fulfill the law if he was not subject to it?

Your statement is in direct conflict with scripture and makes Christ's sacrifice meaningless. That is very dangerous ground you're walking on.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Your statement here is based on the assumption that everyone else does. So really you are attempting to prove a point based on a point that has yet to be proven. Similar to defining a word using itself as a definition.

-A

Uh . . . all have sinned . . . as far as I am concerned the statements about the first Adam and the Last Adam place Christ in a bracket by Himself and Adam ALONE before the Fall . . . where Adam failed Christ succeeded. Bloodtypes are traced from the biological Father . . . since Jesus' father is not a fallen human male . . . then Christ is not either.

Besides, the assumption that I am operating from is one held by both me and the other party in this conversation . . . so if that is the case . . . then your comment is moot.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

So then God commands the impossible, since there are those who do not do His will.

-A

Yep . . . that is the point of the cross.