What must we do for the forgiveness of sins?

[Oldmantook]

Repentance is just not a popular topic.
People want to add a subclause or something to excuse themselves.. Usually from ones favorite sin
But there is no subclause and none is needed. For when we love him ..we do as he says .

It seems to me that to a large extent we have in the churches and in modern worship music redefined the biblical definition of God's love. We have adopted the world's standard of love and applied it to how God loves us as so many pastors from the pulpit preach that God loves us unconditionally. The message is God loves us - no matter what - so the sheep keep on sinning, not repenting and thinking that God still loves them and that they are still in an abiding relationship with Him. Therefore there is no need to repent. That is diametrically opposed to what John 14:21 teaches: "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” God's love is not a mushy, emotional, sentimental love that mirrors the world's concept of love. Rather the biblical definition of love is soley based upon our being obedient to God and walking in his commands. But that is not a message you hear preached today. Thus the sheep wander astray and are lost not realizing their need for repentance thinking that God still loves them.

 

[redleghunter]

Repentance is just not a popular topic.
People want to add a subclause or something to excuse themselves.. Usually from ones favorite sin
But there is no subclause and none is needed. For when we love him ..we do as he says .

It's a popular topic where I'm from.

Perhaps there are some who truly don't know the Biblical definition.

Repentance | Theopedia

 

[ViaCrucis]

Repentance is just not a popular topic.

You've obviously never met a Lutheran then.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ron Gurley]

Spirit-led (John 3 explained in Ephesians 2) FAITH/BELIEF go hand-in-hand with spirit-led "in the will of God" GOOD WORKS .

James 2:22(NASB)
22 You see that FAITH "was working with" his (ABRAHAM'S) WORKS,
and as a result of the WORKS (after true salvation), FAITH was perfected;(matured)

Man's "Works" on his own and before salvation are viewed by God as "filthy rags".
Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our (self) righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

 

[Ron Gurley]

RESPONSE TO POST#220:

Methinks you confuse Biblical "warnings".

1. By whom were they given? Why? Preaching? Teaching? Mission?
2. To whom were they given: BELIEVERS or UN-BELIEVERS?
3. "SOW and REAP" principle: If you do X, consequences will be Y.?
4. INTENT of the "warning" : conversion or condemnation?
5. Never take out of full CONTEXT!?

Q1: "..Regenerate (saved) believers are cleansed (and forgiven) from their former (CONFESSED) sins..."
A1: Agreed. 1 John 1

Q2: "...and "warned" by Paul not to return to them.."
A2: Agreed.

Q3:.." for if they do, they will not inherit the "kingdom of God."...
A3: FALSE. NOWHERE does Paul preach/teach loss of Spiritual POSITION when a true believer sins.
BELIEVERS are FORGIVEN (1 JOHN 1)
UN-believers are NOT! (John 3:36...John the Baptizer)

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal (spiritual)life; (BELIEVER!)
BUT he who does not obey (to believe in) the Son will not see (eternal spiritual) life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (UN-BELIEVER!)

CHOOSE LIFE!

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB)
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

 

[Ron Gurley]

Do we want to divert to the topic of: "repent/repentance" here or a new thread??

Q1: Is "repent/repentance" a pre-requisite of:
OP: "...forgiveness of sins..."

A1: NO!

 

[Alithis]

It seems to me that to a large extent we have in the churches and in modern worship music redefined the biblical definition of God's love. We have adopted the world's standard of love and applied it to how God loves us as so many pastors from the pulpit preach that God loves us unconditionally. The message is God loves us - no matter what - so the sheep keep on sinning, not repenting and thinking that God still loves them and that they are still in an abiding relationship with Him. Therefore there is no need to repent. That is diametrically opposed to what John 14:21 teaches: "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” God's love is not a mushy, emotional, sentimental love that mirrors the world's concept of love. Rather the biblical definition of love is soley based upon our being obedient to God and walking in his commands. But that is not a message you hear preached today. Thus the sheep wander astray and are lost not realizing their need for repentance thinking that God still loves them.

Exactly...
As the most misused sentence says.
“for God so “loved“ the world.

Not “loves“ the world.
In a gracious act of love he gave his son.
He wont be doing that again.

 

[Alithis]

Do we want to divert to the topic of: "repent/repentance" here or a new thread??

Q1: Is "repent/repentance" a pre-requisite of:
OP: "...forgiveness of sins..."

A1: NO!

Lol you wish..
Ron ..-says you don't need to repent to be forgiven.

Scripture says -repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sin.

I think I will stick to the scriptures thanks all the same

 

[Alithis]

A3: FALSE. NOWHERE does Paul preach/teach loss of Spiritual POSITION when a true believer sins.
BELIEVERS are FORGIVEN

Only if they repent...of they continue to practice the sin they display rebellion. They are not of God.

 

[Alithis]

You've obviously never met a Lutheran then.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh yup they are the biggest propergators of “just a sinner saved ..so can't stop sinning.. “

A stance that fully opposes true repentance and makes excuse to continue in sin and denies That Jesus was victorious on the cross.
Then dunks kids in water who have never given their will to God nor repented of anything.and lie to them telibg them they are saved .
And these Man made traditions they defend tooth and nail and care nothing for the truth ，filling thier ever decreasing gatherings with Sunday sitters who do not know God.

 

[redleghunter]

Oh yup they are the biggest propergators of “just a sinner saved ..so can't stop sinning.. “

I'm not Lutheran but you are frankly flaming Lutherans because they believe no such thing.

 

[Yarddog]

Many of the saints seem to be confused as to what constitutes a "work". So I will ask this rhetorical question. What must we do to receive forgiveness, and if there is something we must do,

You must actually let go of the desire to do your own works toward salvation and accept the cleansing of the cross.

is it work?

Yes. It is a work of God's Holy Spirit and shows that one actually believes.

 

[Alithis]

I'm not Lutheran but you are frankly flaming Lutherans because they believe no such thing.

1..Well here comes the defence of those traditions already.
2..You saying they don't believe in infant baptism ..?great news..umm when did they change it?
3.. They are not alone in saying “we are just sinners saved“ but the do say it.
4. Go to a traditional Lutheran meeting on Sunday and talk to the folks seated.
Ask them how often they do anything that Jesus said to do ?
Just the basics.. Like heal the sick ，preach the gospel drive out devil's...
You`'ll find for the most part，they,like many Sunday clubers of many denominations ,don't even believe they can anymore let alone do so.

 

[Alithis]

You must actually let go of the desire to do your own works toward salvation and accept the cleansing of the cross.

Yes. It is a work of God's Holy Spirit and shows that one actually believes.

Really?
How does one receive the Holy spirit in order for him to do that work?
Oh ..hmm
He obeys God's instruction to repent ...

 

[ViaCrucis]

Like heal the sick

Good on you, in hospitals, nursing homes, and on the street curing cancer, HIV/AIDS, restoring sight to the blind.

I would be interested, especially, in hearing your stories on healing amputees, or people suffering from terminal illnesses. I assume you do this, especially since you're a Real Christian™, not one of those phony Christians like me.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Yarddog]

Really?
How does one receive the Holy spirit in order for him to do that work?
Oh ..hmm
He obeys God's instruction to repent ...

Hmmm, that is a strange reaction who says that they are Christian. I think that you should sit down with your minister and try to understand baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

How can anyone proclaim Jesus is Lord? That is the work of the Holy Spirit.
How did Abraham follow God? Not by laws but by the Holy Spirit within him.

When Christians are properly baptized, they receive God's Holy Spirit and become holy Temples of God. Now, not all of them actually act as Christians should and learn to walk but instead continue to crawl and fail to progress to eating solid food.

As children of God we should let go of the world, which wants to bind us, and truly trust our Father in heaven. We are not as the Jews were, we are as Abraham was, righteous through faith. The same Spirit which guided Abraham also is there to guide Christians. When that Spirit leads us to obey God, those works belong to the Spirit of God and not to man's spirit.

The Holy Spirit must first lead us to believe, lead us to repent, and lead us in obedience. All those are works of the Spirit.

 

[Alithis]

Hmmm, that is a strange reaction who says that they are Christian. I think that you should sit down with your minister and try to understand baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

If they were Christian they should not be requiring forgiveness for on going sin

How can anyone proclaim Jesus is Lord? That is the work of the Holy Spirit.
How did Abraham follow God? Not by laws but by the Holy Spirit within him.

the Holy spirit reveals that .

When Christians are properly baptized, they receive God's Holy Spirit and become holy Temples of God. Now, not all of them actually act as Christians should and learn to walk but instead continue to crawl and fail to progress to eating solid food.

To be properly baptised they must repent ..as scripture plainly states.
And as scripture also plainly states they do not get baptised in the Holy spirit automatically by or at water baptism .
But by God when they surrender and receive him .the bok of acts shows this plainly.

As children of God we should let go of the world, which wants to bind us, and truly trust our Father in heaven. We are not as the Jews were, we are as Abraham was, righteous through faith. The same Spirit which guided Abraham also is there to guide Christians. When that Spirit leads us to obey God, those works belong to the Spirit of God and not to man's spirit.

the work making salvation available was done by Jesus
We can't add to it.
But we must cease from unrighteous work.in.order to do righteousness.there is no middle ground excusing us and making us inactive either way

The Holy Spirit must first lead us to believe, lead us to repent, and lead us in obedience. All those are works of the Spirit.

he leads us TO repentance.
It's on us to obediently respond .
If it were an automatic thing that only God does there would be no covenant .and all would be automatically saved.but we know thats not so.

 

[Oldmantook]

RESPONSE TO POST#220:

Methinks you confuse Biblical "warnings".

1. By whom were they given? Why? Preaching? Teaching? Mission?
2. To whom were they given: BELIEVERS or UN-BELIEVERS?
3. "SOW and REAP" principle: If you do X, consequences will be Y.?
4. INTENT of the "warning" : conversion or condemnation?
5. Never take out of full CONTEXT!?

Q1: "..Regenerate (saved) believers are cleansed (and forgiven) from their former (CONFESSED) sins..."
A1: Agreed. 1 John 1

Q2: "...and "warned" by Paul not to return to them.."
A2: Agreed.

Q3:.." for if they do, they will not inherit the "kingdom of God."...
A3: FALSE. NOWHERE does Paul preach/teach loss of Spiritual POSITION when a true believer sins.
BELIEVERS are FORGIVEN (1 JOHN 1)
UN-believers are NOT! (John 3:36...John the Baptizer)

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal (spiritual)life; (BELIEVER!)
BUT he who does not obey (to believe in) the Son will not see (eternal spiritual) life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (UN-BELIEVER!)

CHOOSE LIFE!

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB)
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,[/QUOTE
Your response in A3 is false. Paul clearly taught in Rom 8:13 that believers will experience spiritual death which equates to the loss of their salvation - if they choose to live according to the flesh.

Regarding 1 John 1, you are remiss in failing to account for the context. Contrary to your claim, all believers are not given forgiveness as 1 Jn 1:7 clearly states that the cleansing blood of Jesus only applies to those believers who by choice are walking in the light. This is a conditional statement indicated by the preposition "if." To be specific, this verse is constructed as a 3rd class conditional clause in the Greek meaning that it is uncertain whether the believer will in reality, walk in the light or not. It is a matter of their will and personal choice; hence the word "if'. IF they choose to NOT walk in the light by living in obedience and instead practice and engage in habitual sin, then the cleansing blood of Jesus no longer applies to them. Instead they walk in darkness and no longer have fellowship with Him (v.6).

Regarding Jn 3:36. This verse contains two different Greek words - pisteuon (believe) and apeithon (disobey). You write that to not obey (apeithon) means to not believe in, however that is not quite accurate. If it were as you claim, then why would Jesus not just use the same word pisteuo with a negative prefix to say - not believe? Furthermore, apeitheo is a verb in the present tense, active voice which conveys the sense of unbelief additionally manifested by an action demonstrating that unbelief - i.e., disobedience. Properly interpreted in this verse Jesus is saying that belief and obedience are two sides of the same coin as to believe also means to obey. We both agree that is is necessary to believe according to Jn 3:16 but do you also believe it is necessary to obey for salvation according to Heb 5:9?

 

[Alithis]

Good on you, in hospitals, nursing homes, and on the street curing cancer, HIV/AIDS, restoring sight to the blind.

I would be interested, especially, in hearing your stories on healing amputees, or people suffering from terminal illnesses. I assume you do this, especially since you're a Real Christian™, not one of those phony Christians like me.

-CryptoLutheran

So your telling me you do none of that? Though I must admit i`v only gone through a hospital one time.it was a hard thing to do.very heart breaking .people sitting weeping over beds in a over crowded smelly 3rd world hospital.

But tell me do you know a medical student in his (or her)first week that performs complex operations?
Nope.
Why not?
Because he/she is a student (a disciple)
Learning to become like his/her teacher.

We are not called to be Christians .the term is used all of Twice in the scripture. But we are CALLED to be diciples. (students) learning to become like Jesus.disciples is used some 260 times.
No student is immediately adept without practice.
But Sunday club attendees are disciples of their institutions and clubs learning to be good Sunday attendees.
Not always their fault. Thier leaders themselves follow thier denominations first..not Jesus first.and they cannot teach what they don't practice themselves.

 

[Yarddog]

If they were Christian they should not be requiring forgiveness for on going sin

When a person is in the state of righteousness they should know that God has forgiven them already but that doesn't mean the a Christian should not feel remorse for sin. It also does not mean that we should not try to put those right whom we may have sinned against.

the Holy spirit reveals that .

Yes, and the Holy Spirit reveals our sin and leads us to love, teaches us to crawl, teaches us to walk, teaches us to the things we need in order to eat solid food, etc...

To be properly baptised they must repent ..as scripture plainly states.

Yes and be baptized by a proper person and in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

And as scripture also plainly states they do not get baptised in the Holy spirit automatically by or at water baptism. But by God when they surrender and receive him .the bok of acts shows this plainly. .

Water baptism is the baptism of repentance, as scripture plainly states. The laying on of hands is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Now God may choose to give his Holy Spirit to a pagan but he should then receive water baptism, as Acts states.

the work making salvation available was done by Jesus

Correct and no act of man can lead to salvation.

We can't add to it.

Who has said that we can?

But we must cease from unrighteous work.in.order to do righteousness.there is no middle ground excusing us and making us inactive either way

Yes, no middle ground. All must be done by the Holy Spirit given at baptism or it is unrighteous works of man. If we want to stop doing unrighteous works, we must let go of our need to do it ourselves and allow God to do it. If we truly have faith, we will change us from within.

he leads us TO repentance.
It's on us to obediently respond .

He leads us to repent and to respond. Our response is surrender.

If it were an automatic thing that only God does there would be no covenant .and all would be automatically saved.but we know thats not so.

Never said anything different.