What is "true" Islam?

[WoundedDeep]

Only selective passages that fit their agenda.

Not true. There is nothing that can be taken out of context with words like "slay them where you find them" (2:191) or "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you" (9:123). Those are open commands to use violence, many such verses exist in their Quran.

 

[ebia]

Not true. There is nothing that can be taken out of context with words like "slay them where you find them" (2:191) or "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you" (9:123).

You just did take them out of their context.

 

[Episaw]

The Crusades and the Inquisition are favorites of non believers to bash believers with. They have this strange notion that when Christians (of the Catholic kind) and Christians of the Catholic kind who go to war against Christians of the non catholic kind, that somehow they are indicative of the Christian faith and teachings.

At the same time, they use what happened a thousand years ago to try and prove that is what christianity is today. TODAY, and I emphasise this word, most religious wars are the muslims against everyone else who are trying to impose their idea of religious law on everyone else and they don't mind how many they kill in the process to obtain victory.

What makes it even more strange is that they will kill their own kind to impose their evil way of life and they have this strange notion that their threat to kill if you don't convert to islam is going to produce committed muslims and they somehow have gained a victory.

Jesus said if they hate me they are going to hate you. Today we are seeing this in real life as reports reveal that christians are the most hated and most persecuted people on earth, so when you get atheists SADS and agnostics invade Christian sites on the internet to try and cause mayhem and spread the "we know more than you do" attitude, what's new.

It gets to the point where their attempts to degrade and belittle get somewhat boring and they become nothing more than an internet troll who no longer can get through the door because of the size of their heads.

Now I realise that all these people who I am referring to will come back at me with their denials and justifications but all that does is confirm what I said is truth.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

The Crusades and the Inquisition are favorites of non believers to bash believers with. They have this strange notion that when Christians (of the Catholic kind) and Christians of the Catholic kind who go to war against Christians of the non catholic kind, that somehow they are indicative of the Christian faith and teachings.

At the same time, they use what happened a thousand years ago to try and prove that is what christianity is today. TODAY, and I emphasise this word, most religious wars are the muslims against everyone else who are trying to impose their idea of religious law on everyone else and they don't mind how many they kill in the process to obtain victory.

"Isn't it funny that Episaw is an authority on everything and knows much more than what non-christians do (according to him) but all his knowledge hasn't enabled him to know the truth about reality.

I guess what the scripture says is so relevant about those whose salvation is based on their own opinion."
FYI, that's meant as an ironic response

What makes it even more strange is that they will kill their own kind to impose their evil way of life and they have this strange notion that their threat to kill if you don't convert to islam is going to produce committed muslims and they somehow have gained a victory.

You mean like Christians did a few hundred years ago?

Jesus said if they hate me they are going to hate you. Today we are seeing this in real life as reports reveal that christians are the most hated and most persecuted people on earth,

Ok, you really need to provide some evidence to back that claim. Making demonstrably false assertions like that only makes you sound silly.

It gets to the point where their attempts to degrade and belittle get somewhat boring and they become nothing more than an internet troll who no longer can get through the door because of the size of their heads.

Just who is degrading and belittling whom?

Now I realise that all these people who I am referring to will come back at me with their denials and justifications but all that does is confirm what I said is truth.

You still haven't told everyone why you are an authority and I am not.

Do you have anything other than blather?

 

[ebia]

The Crusades and the Inquisition are favorites of non believers to bash believers with. They have this strange notion that when Christians (of the Catholic kind) and Christians of the Catholic kind who go to war against Christians of the non catholic kind, that somehow they are indicative of the Christian faith and teachings.

At the same time, they use what happened a thousand years ago to try and prove that is what christianity is today. TODAY, and I emphasise this word, most religious wars are the muslims against everyone else who are trying to impose their idea of religious law on everyone else and they don't mind how many they kill in the process to obtain victory.

1. There are plenty of other massive religious persecutions going on in the world, eg of Hindus, Christians and Muslims by Buddists in Sri Lanka and Burma.
2. Western powers have played a large part in creating or exacerbating the disfunctional state of much of the muslim world by getting involved in ways that revolve around our agendas, not around helping those peoples create functional communities themselves.
3. (And most importantly) on what basis do you decide that today trumps history?

What makes it even more strange is that they will kill their own kind to impose their evil way of life

This is what gives the lie to every sentence that includes the phrase "the muslims". Muslims are not a homogenous set.

and they have this strange notion that their threat to kill if you don't convert to islam is going to produce committed muslims and they somehow have gained a victory.

I can't fathom that notion either, but it seems to run right though much of history for people of all religious traditions, including christians.

Jesus said if they hate me they are going to hate you. Today we are seeing this in real life as reports reveal that christians are the most hated and most persecuted people on earth,

There are, of course, more christians than any other people on earth.
The raw figure shows little.

Now I realise that all these people who I am referring to will come back at me with their denials and justifications but all that does is confirm what I said is truth.

"If I'm right I'm right and if I'm wrong I'm right". Yeh, right.

 

[Episaw]

Thankyou to those who confirmed what I said.

1 Cor 1:25 Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger than everyone else. 26 My dear friends, remember what you were when God chose you. The people of this world didn't think that many of you were wise. Only a few of you were in places of power, and not many of you came from important families. 27 But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame. 28 What the world thinks is worthless, useless, and nothing at all is what God has used to destroy what the world considers important.

 

[ebia]

Thankyou to those who confirmed what I said.

1 Cor 1:25 Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger than everyone else. 26 My dear friends, remember what you were when God chose you. The people of this world didn't think that many of you were wise. Only a few of you were in places of power, and not many of you came from important families. 27 But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame. 28 What the world thinks is worthless, useless, and nothing at all is what God has used to destroy what the world considers important.

What a shameless abuse of scripture.
You think Paul meant "whatever Episaw says is true, even when shown to be false"?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Thankyou to those who confirmed what I said.

1 Cor 1:25 Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger than everyone else. 26 My dear friends, remember what you were when God chose you. The people of this world didn't think that many of you were wise. Only a few of you were in places of power, and not many of you came from important families. 27 But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame. 28 What the world thinks is worthless, useless, and nothing at all is what God has used to destroy what the world considers important.

The only thing that is confirmed is that you are pathetically incapable of engaging in a discussion.

 

[Episaw]

The only thing that is confirmed is that you are pathetically incapable of engaging in a discussion.

Thankyou for your compliment.

 

[Episaw]

What a shameless abuse of scripture.
You think Paul meant "whatever Episaw says is true, even when shown to be false"?

Thankyou for your compliment.

 

[Episaw]

It is with a heavy-heart, grieved spirit, and a sick stomach that we must report the most evil, horrific acts carried out yet by ISIS troops in Iraq against Christians. In an interview, Chaldean-American leader and California businessman, Mark Arabo, said, "Christianity in Mosul is dead, and a Christian holocaust is in our midst... Children are being beheaded, mothers are being raped and killed, and fathers are being hung. Right now, three thousand Christians are in Iraq fleeing to neighbouring cities." The interviewer was shocked at Arabo's pronouncement. "You're startling me with the severity of what you're describing," he said. "You said they are-beheading children?!"

Arabo confirmed his statement saying, "They are systematically beheading children. And mothers and fathers. The world hasn't seen an evil like this for generations. There's actually a park in Mosul where they actually beheaded children and put their heads on a stick... These are crimes against humanity. They are doing the most horrendous, the most heart-breaking crimes that you can think of." France has offered Iraqi Christians asylum and Arabo has called on the international community to follow their lead. PRAY. PRAY. PRAY.

 

[Episaw]

A Sudanese judge sentenced a pregnant Christian woman to hang for apostasy after she refused to convert to Islam, despite appeals by Western embassies for compassion and respect for religious freedom. Born to a Muslim father, the woman was convicted under the Islamic sharia law that has been in force in Sudan since 1983 and outlaws conversions on pain of death.

Meriam Yahia Ibrahim Ishag, 27, is eight months pregnant and married to a Christian national of South Sudan, human rights activists say. South Sudan which separated from Sudan in 2011, “We gave you three days to recant but you insist on not returning to Islam.

I sentence you to be hanged,” Judge Abbas Mohammed Al-Khalifa told the woman, addressing her by her father’s Muslim name, Adraf Al-Hadi Mohammed Abdullah. Khalifa also sentenced Ishag to 100 lashes for “adultery”. Under Sudan’s interpretation of sharia, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man and any such relationship is regarded as adulterous. :o

 

[theFijian]

This is slightly a trick question, because if you can find any examples then I will obviously reply that these people were not Christians to commit such acts

But why would you say this? Do you not think Christians are capable of committing terrible sins? King David "a man after God's own heart" committed adultery then committed murder to try to cover it up.

...simply because there is no such instruction or teaching in the bible (which is obvious given the 6th commandment)...

I presume then that you have kept every one of the 10 commandments perfectly

 

[Episaw]

There are, of course, more christians than any other people on earth. The raw figure shows little.

You have some weird and wonderful claims. The numbers of christians on the planet have no bearing on the amount of persecution they suffer. Whether there are 2 million christians or 2 billion, the amount of suffering they experience can be the same. In other words, they get killed, tortured, beheaded, raped, hacked to death, made homeless etc. etc.

 

[ebia]

You have some weird and wonderful claims. The numbers of christians on the planet have no bearing on the amount of persecution they suffer. Whether there are 2 million christians or 2 billion, the amount of suffering they experience can be the same. In other words, they get killed, tortured, beheaded, raped, hacked to death, made homeless etc. etc.

People of pretty much every faith are persecuted somewhere.
Let's say we have two religions.
Religion A has 1 million adherents, and 10% are persecuted. That's 10,000 victims.
Religion B has 1 thousand adherents, all of whom are persecuted. That's 1,000 victims.

Which religion is suffering more?

Muslims are persecuted in Sri Lanka, China, Burma. The entire Rohinga people (Muslim) have been made not just homeless but stateless.
Shia Muslims are persecuted in Afghanistan, Pakistan, ...
Sunni Muslims are persecuted in Iran
Hindus are persecuted in Sri Lanka and Pakistan ...
Buddists are persecuted in Tibet...
Etc, etc.
Outside the rich western countries small minority faiths are generally persecuted, often the entire faith group (eg the Kalash people).

Persecution is not an exclusive Christian issue.

 

[Episaw]

Persecution is not an exclusive Christian issue.

I never said it was. I said that the latest report is that christians are the most persecuted faith on earth. if you are so concerned about every minutiae of the fact, then go research it and find out for yourself.

 

[ebia]

I never said it was. I said that the latest report is that christians are the most persecuted faith on earth. if you are so concerned about every minutiae of the fact, then go research it and find out for yourself.

What does "the most persecuted" actually mean?

 

[Episaw]

What does "the most persecuted" actually mean?

As I said, if you want to investigate every minutiae of the fact, do your own research.

Unlike you, when I know that someone has a habit of reporting the truth, I don't spend all my time trying to prove he is lying or finding fault with what he is saying.

 

[ebia]

As I said, if you want to investigate every minutiae of the fact, do your own research.

Unlike you, when I know that someone has a habit of reporting the truth, I don't spend all my time trying to prove he is lying or finding fault with what he is saying.

In other words, you don't actually know what it means.

Repeting something without knowing its meaning (and truthfulness) is gossip.

 

[Episaw]

In other words, you don't actually know what it means.

Repeting something without knowing its meaning (and truthfulness) is gossip.

As I said, if you want to investigate every minutiae of the fact, do your own research.

Unlike you, when I know that someone has a habit of reporting the truth, I don't spend all my time trying to prove he is lying or finding fault with what he is saying.

And one thing I don't know is the meaning of the word repeting.