What is true Biblical prosperity, and how do we seek it?

[com7fy8]

Com, you still haven't defined prosperity, in the dictionary sense.

Well, Mike, a secular dictionary might not have a Christian perspective definition. So, I have gone right to asking what we have in the Bible. But we could take a peek at secular and other scholarly work.

Well . . . let's see > I'll do one Internet dictionary, my concordance Greek dictionary, and 3 John 3 >

A Net definition can mean vain and useless excessive abundance which is of this world, but the abundance is not only of money. Prosperity can also mean well-being, and here is where I go to the Bible for what well-being really is and how to seek it. And Jesus speaks of the "true riches", in Luke 16:11. Riches are included in the Net prosperity definition; so I am welcoming people to share about what true riches or true prosperity is . . . how Jesus means, not how this world might define it.

What does Jesus mean by "true riches"?

My Strong's word #2137 definition says prosperity has to do with success in business, and Paul uses this to say, in Romans 1:10, that he hopes he a Christian will have a prosperous journey to be with the Romans. And ones say, here, how "prosperous" can mean "successful". And the Bible says with God we will have "good success" (Joshua 1:8).

So, as Christians what is for us "good success"? We all have good things to offer and share about this. So, please share about how God has blessed you, so we can feed on your example and how God has taught and corrected you about true prosperity's good success and true riches.

And, in 3 John 2, John wishes that Gaius prospers >

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." (3 John 2)

So, this word is used in the Strong's Greek dictionary, interlinears, and the Bible. And so I am asking what this means and how we seek this

It appears to include success . . . which for God would mean our good success as Christians. We succeed in submitting to God Himself, to how He rules us in His own peace in our hearts (Colossians 3:15). I keep finding that there are people who are not succeeding in submitting to how God rules us with His own peace in our hearts; I personally understand that we need to seek this, by praying for our Father to correct us (Hebrews 12:4-11) so we become submissive to Him, not trying a do-it-myself discipline thing; His grace in us changes us so we succeed in obeying how He rules us in His own peace > this is included in Biblical prosperity's success, I consider, Mike.

And our labor is not in vain, "in the Lord" > 1 Corinthians 15:58. With Him, we have His results, His own success in us and others we minister to . . . not only what we can look for.

In the Bible, it appears that prosperity includes how a person's "soul" prospers (3 John 2). How do we have success and true riches in our soul? Mainly, I would say, by how Jesus grows in us, with all His things shared with us in our souls > Galatians 4:19, Ephesians 4:15. And Paul speaks of preaching "the unsearchable riches of Christ" > Ephesians 3:8. You say that prosperity means riches, if I understand you correctly, Mike; and here Paul is saying we have the "unsearchable riches of Christ".

But I am not the only child of God, here. Each of us has good things to offer to each other; so anyone else is welcome to share how God has blessed you about this.

What is your experience about having the "unsearchable riches of" Jesus? What are these riches, and how do we seek these?

 

[com7fy8]

By the way . . . God's word does use words like "riches" and "prosper" and "success" and "abundance". But Satan's kingdom can develop culture so these words have a bad meaning for people. And there are ministries which can abuse and misuse words which are in God's message. Then ones can assume a bad meaning. But would you throw out the Gospel because people misrepresent the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus? I hope not.

So, I think it is good to get what God means by prosperity so this is what we think about when we hear the word

 

[com7fy8]

God "is rich in mercy", Paul says in Ephesians 2:4. The word "rich", here, is related to the Bible Greek word "riches" where Jesus says "the deceitfulness of riches choke the word", in Matthew 13:22.

So, what is "rich" can have different meanings, even for the same basic word in scripture.

And, about our prosperity > God is "rich in mercy" to us. And He is our example > "Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:1-2)

So, how God is "rich" is our example of how He desires for us to be "rich" > "in mercy". A scriptural example can be a sample of what is for all of us.

So - - -

As for why I asked if you were a pastor, you used a verse for yourself regarding those who by definition are pastors, "the laborer deserves his wage".

No, I am not an ordained pastor, but I understand that leaders are "examples" for all of us > 1 Peter 5:3 > so, they could be samples of what is for all of us, including how we all who labor in Jesus are worthy of our hire. And, for me, Mike, this mainly means how I have the income of God's grace which I need for being the way He wants and doing what He has me doing > Philippians 2:13. So, my "hire" is not just money and needs met in my life, but grace in us is our real hire.

But, yes, I do agree with financially supporting ones who labor in prayer and the word of God. But, even though I am not ordained, I keep discovering how God provides for me so I do not "have" to spend much time trying to get money to pay for things, and so I have more time for prayer and sharing in ministry of God's word, and helping people free of charge. But the way I help is not very financial, and includes personally supporting ones who do help others in some material way.

 

[Extraneous]

1 Timothy 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

This scripture above isnt referring to monetary wages. I believe all of the riches in Christ are spiritual. Paul says that the natural man doesn't receive the things of God. I believe we must look with spiritual eyes instead of natural eyes.




If there is any monetary gain in Christ, its found in Acts chapter 4, in my opinion. The Church prospers not by "speaking" words of faith, or sowing financial seeds in order to reap financial rewards, but instead it prospers financially by loving each other, i.e. loving your neighbor as yourself. To love another as yourself they must be equal to you. You treat them as you are treating yourself.

See the equality that is mentioned in both these scriptures below. Also ponder the fact that equality seems to be the same as loving another person as yourself.


Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.


2 Corinthian 8:13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; 14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality.15 As it is written, “He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he whogathered little had no lack.”

 

[Extraneous]

sorry, i edited my last message. I posted the same scripture twice.

 

[Extraneous]

This scripture is a reference to Exodus 16, where the Israelite's gathered the manna, or bread from heaven. Those who gathered more than enough supplied the need for those who didnt gather enough. It was not about speaking words of faith, nor sowing seeds, and everyone being out for themselves. It was about sharing and being one body

One person didn't live in a mansion while others lived in poverty. That is not prosperity in Christ. He who gathered too much had nothing left over. Thats real faith in Christ.


2 Corinthian 8:13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; 14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality.15 As it is written, “He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack.”

 

[sunlover1]

Grand kids will just fight over it. However, if those grand kids are in the Church then it doesn't much matter does it? If the Church is actually taking care of its own, that is. I never saw where God taught us to store up wealth for our grand kids. I instead saw where the Church should be helping each other. Why would grand kids need money if the Church helps them? What you say sounds like it fails to live up to spiritual teaching.

God said it, not me
Proverbs 13:
A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children:
and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Even the 'wealth" of the sinner is saved for US.
GOD'S design, not mine.
Nothing wrong with having money. it's just a "thing" we use.
It's the LOVE OF that thing.. or ANYthing other than God,
that causes problems for mankind
IMO

 

[Extraneous]

God said it, not me
Proverbs 13:

IMO

IM not sure its wise to take that verse instead of everything else that's been said.

These scriptures are also in proverbs 13.

Proverbs 13:7 There is one who makes himself rich, yet has nothing;
And one who makes himself poor, yet has great riches.

8 The ransom of a man’s life is his riches,
But the poor does not hear rebuke.

James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

2 Corinthians 6:10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Mathew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

The Lamp of the Body
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great isthat darkness!

 

[Extraneous]

We should, in my opinion, beware of prosperity doctrine. Prosperity preachers often use OT scriptures to justify their wealth, and they usually take those verses out of context as well.


Matthew 12:46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”

48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”

 

[Extraneous]

1 John 3:17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

John 4:35 Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!

Mathew 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

The Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”


44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, 46 who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it.

Titus 3:14 And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

 

[Extraneous]

To me, this scripture shows how riches blind us and we cannot see spiritual things. We need God to heal our blindness, but we must turn to him first, we must obey the Lord.


Mathew 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


Mathew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great isthat darkness!

 

[Extraneous]

Sorry for posting so much scripture, and for posting the same ones so often, im just trying to shine light on them, to show what i see in them. These scriptures always seem to agree with each other, and it always says the same thing.


Consider this comparison.

2 Corinthians 6:10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.


2 Corinthian 8:13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; 14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality.15 As it is written, “He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he whogathered little had no lack.”

 

[Extraneous]

Prosperity preachers are blind. Their love for money has blinded them. THey do not follow the apostles example or command, even though they claim to be anointed. Its not about speaking words of faith, or sowing spiritual things so we can reap carnal things. Its about being rich in faith, and good works, rich in the spirit, not in earthly treasure.

Fighting the good fight of faith has nothing to do with reaping these carnel things at all. Its about love and the spirit. Look at Acts 4, isnt that what we should be doing? Doesnt your heart agree with that scripture? That's not what Mr Copeland is preaching however, or even doing himself. Hes instead teaching everyone to seek earthly treasure instead of heavenly treasure. Its about me myself and I. Its not about Acts 4 at all. Sure he asks that you send in you "love gift" but its just so he can keep teaching his prosperity doctrine instead of Acts 4. Hes a bad teacher and a bad example. I don't wish to speak ill of anyone, but im not sure how i can say it any nicer than that.


1 Corinthians 9:8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.”[a] Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? 12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?

Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

1 Timothy 6:6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain[c] we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


This is a true Word Of Faith:

The Good Confession
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Instructions to the Rich
17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.



2 Peter 3:14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[Extraneous]

I was meditating on this topic a little and it occurred to me that there is something wrong with wanting more money. Paul teaches us to be content in all situations, and to be anxious for nothing as well, and that echoes Christ command to take no thought for our life. To deny this is to deny the command of Christ.

Im not saying we must be legalistic about it and condemn ourselves, and we all struggle with wanting more than we have, but the truth being that this is a key in true spiritualism. Paul teaches us to not be anxious for things, but instead to ask God for all things in prayer. So we can ask God for things but if we don't get them we must be content.

Paul teaches us to pray for all things, and this doesn't agree with the WOF doctrine which teaches us to speak financial blessings into our lives. Its yet another example of how WOF doctrine is wrong and nonspiritual. Pray for all things and be content with what we have, thats Pauls doctrine.

 

[com7fy8]

To me, this scripture shows how riches blind us and we cannot see spiritual things. We need God to heal our blindness, but we must turn to him first, we must obey the Lord.

Paul uses the Macedonians as an example of giving; but here is what Paul says about before they did their giving >

"And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God." (2 Corinthians 8:5)

So, God wants us, not only what we have And because God has leaders whom He Himself trusts, He will give us also to the ones He trusts, if we give ourselves to Him, I understand.

So, giving is not a lone hero thing, but we are family with one another.

There are people who are trying to pay God off, so they can do as they please with the rest of their money.

Its about being rich in faith,

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6)

willing to share,

Yes, this is in 1 Timothy 6:18. From this, I see how God does not want the rich to give only from a distance, but also to personally share with people.

Im not saying we must be legalistic about it

Any of us can be legalistic about things, and I understand that any of us can do our giving in the wrong way; so we need to keep on submitting to God in prayer for Him to have us obeying Him in the ruling of His peace in our hearts > Colossians 3:15.

Paul teaches us to pray for all things,

And submit to Him, so He is guiding us to all He wants for us We need how God prepares us for whatever He does give to us! Also, even if we might be able to handle a certain blessing well, at a certain time, we could do well to get it after we have grown more so we can do more with it. Plus, there are others who will be involved in the benefits which our Heavenly Father has for us; so there is timing of our blessings with ones we will be sharing with and loving while we have the good God shares with us

 

[Extraneous]

Paul uses the Macedonians as an example of giving; but here is what Paul says about before they did their giving >

"And not only as we had hoped, but they first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God." (2 Corinthians 8:5)

So, God wants us, not only what we have And because God has leaders whom He Himself trusts, He will give us also to the ones He trusts, if we give ourselves to Him, I understand.

So, giving is not a lone hero thing, but we are family with one another.

There are people who are trying to pay God off, so they can do as they please with the rest of their money.

"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6)

Yes, this is in 1 Timothy 6:18. From this, I see how God does not want the rich to give only from a distance, but also to personally share with people.

Any of us can be legalistic about things, and I understand that any of us can do our giving in the wrong way; so we need to keep on submitting to God in prayer for Him to have us obeying Him in the ruling of His peace in our hearts > Colossians 3:15.

And submit to Him, so He is guiding us to all He wants for us We need how God prepares us for whatever He does give to us! Also, even if we might be able to handle a certain blessing well, at a certain time, we could do well to get it after we have grown more so we can do more with it. Plus, there are others who will be involved in the benefits which our Heavenly Father has for us; so there is timing of our blessings with ones we will be sharing with and loving while we have the good God shares with us

I don't disagree with anything you say, as far as i understand your words. I just cant agree that God wants us to become filthy rich while others have nothing. I believe in the example left to us in Acts 4. I believe any Church who claims to be filled with the spirit will look like that Church. I dont see Paul actually commanding rich people to give away all they own, but i do see him telling them to be rich in good works. I also see paul teaching that true spiritual maturity is Acts 4, but not what WOF is teaching.

 

[com7fy8]

Even the 'wealth" of the sinner is saved for US.

When the Jews went out of Egypt, the Egyptians gave them different things of the Egyptians' wealth. Then, when the LORD had them make the articles of worship service and the tabernacle, they used those precious items to make the things of the LORD's service. So, their "plunder" of Egypt was used for items of worship.

But their tithe came from their harvest of the work of their own hands, and there was tithe food which was stored so widows and orphans and strangers and Levites could eat and be satisfied. And they themselves ate of their tithe.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29

So, there was tithe food that they themselves used and enjoyed, while sharing it with the Levites and the needy.

 

[com7fy8]

I don't disagree with anything you say, as far as i understand your words.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

This is part of prosperity in Jesus . . . how we test everything, with God, and gain the good which we can have with Him

And I think of how Joseph with God used his tragic situation to help many people > Genesis 37-50. With God, he did not only get prosperity for himself, but in sharing with many people, because God is all-loving and He uses us in His all-loving ways. This includes with my lady friend; I am sure God keeps having me challenge her to be good for other people, too. She is for loving all people, not only me! So, prosperity includes loving any and all people, by sharing our very best blessings with others > including sharing our special people, not only our money and help

 

[Extraneous]

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

This is part of prosperity in Jesus . . . how we test everything, with God, and gain the good which we can have with Him

And I think of how Joseph with God used his tragic situation to help many people > Genesis 37-50. With God, he did not only get prosperity for himself, but in sharing with many people, because God is all-loving and He uses us in His all-loving ways. This includes with my lady friend; I am sure God keeps having me challenge her to be good for other people, too. She is for loving all people, not only me! So, prosperity includes loving any and all people, by sharing our very best blessings with others > including sharing our special people, not only our money and help

Prosperity to me is abounding in love. Its about bearing fruit of the spirit.

 

[Extraneous]

Wisdom is more precious than gold, and faith is as well, according to Peter.