What is true Biblical prosperity, and how do we seek it?

[Extraneous]

I'll tell you what i believe Com7, i believe that prosperity preaching leads us astray on the path of walking in the spirit. It emphasizes worldly religion rather than spiritual religion. I believe its of more value to be content in any situation, rather than seeking riches and health. I also believe that when we begin to walk in the spirit we would want to give more than receive. When we walk in the spirit we learn to be happy with simple things, we learn to endure suffering as well and that bears the fruit of empathy in us, which causes us to feel the suffering of others and we would not need to be told to help them, although hearing it would be most agreeable anyway. I just believe the Christian life should be a simple one, not a wealthy one. That's just my opinion and my way, and i believe it has greatly blessed me. I just cant see it any other way anymore. Just my opinion.

 

[Extraneous]

Well, that would take money to buy the strainer!

Or you could just speak the strainer into existence. That's how WOF does it. Speak away your problems.

I have yet to see anyone speak to rust and make it disappear, or speak to crime and make it go away. Thats what they make security systems and paint for. Think about that for a minute brother.


Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

 

[mikedsjr]

I do not have a money making job, but I am often busy with doing things which others would get payed for. And I get taken care of > God does say the laborer is worthy of his hire; and He gives me much more and better than I "need".

So, yes, I share items of the Bible, like >
But I understand that it is good to work in order to pay for things of this life. And I give freely; no one has to pay me for things I share ministerially or that I do to help people.

"Freely you have received, freely give," Jesus says in Matthew 10:8.

So you are a pastor?

 

[com7fy8]

i believe that prosperity preaching leads us astray on the path of walking in the spirit.

amen

It emphasizes worldly religion rather than spiritual religion.

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many harmful and foolish lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." (1 Timothy 6:9-10)

So, Extraneous, I notice how it says that all one needs to do to be miserable and become ruined is to desire to be rich. It doesn't say those who are rich, but those who desire. What we do in our hearts is what we already have done; isn't this what Jesus means, in Matthew 5:28, as a general application of this principle which He gives, here?

"Therefore" >

. ."'Blessed are the poor in spirit,
. . . . For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Matthew 5:3)

I see, here, that Jesus could mean that in our hearts we are poor in attitude . . . not caring if we are rich; but this is not only an idealistic thing or being anti-money and anti-materials, but we don't care because we are being deeply satisfied, the way God's love "in our hearts" (Romans 5:5) makes us "content with such things as you have" (Hebrews 13:5). And God's comforting love is Heaven's own love having Heaven's own quality of goodness; and so we already are in Heaven's realm by being in God's own love

And, Extraneous, I think this can mean we don't care about how much control we have, also. We are humble, submissive to God, and this is all that matters. But this is very well-to-do . . . to be submitting to God in His very own peace, which is Heaven's peace ruling in our hearts > Colossians 3:15. Again, by being in Heaven's peace, and ruled by this peace, this makes us content and is preparing us for how in Heaven we will be constantly ruled in God's very own peace ! ! !

So, like you say >

I believe its of more value to be content in any situation, rather than seeking riches and health. I also believe that when we begin to walk in the spirit we would want to give more than receive.

Thank you very much for going into detail about your personal discovering about true Biblical prosperity.

When we walk in the spirit we learn to be happy with simple things,

I enjoy the scent of rain Money does not love me!! I appreciate my lady friend who shows me how she thinks with compassion about various people and their situations and caring about them who are wrong, somehow; she is not like how I have first been one to react with criticism. To have a real lady to personally share with and correct me to love is very great Christian prosperity, I would say.

we learn to endure suffering as well and that bears the fruit of empathy in us, which causes us to feel the suffering of others

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

So, Jesus Himself has gone through things in this life, even on purpose . . . with the strategy that He now can feel for us about all that we go through and now minister to us His grace which had Him do so much loving good while going through things. And Jesus is royal and rich more than anyone; yet, Jesus so greater than all is not conceited, but is so humble that He came here to so personally share with us and now minister to us, so we can follow this example . . . possibly, like you are learning to do. So, thank you for sharing this with us This is what I indeed consider to be included in true prosperity, how to be royal and truly rich Jesus did this as our High Priest, and 1 Peter 2:9 says we are "a royal priesthood", which to me means we go through things, now, partly in order to become able to feel for others and minister God's own grace which gets us through it all >

"Grace be to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God." (2 Corinthians 1:2-4)

There are well-to-do and highly educated and trained people who can not help suffering people by ministering God's own comfort and personality healing to them. They can use medicines and talk methods to help keep "symptoms" under control, but they can not actually cure a person's nature and character to become perfected in God's love (1 John 4:17)

But any child of God, even while going through troubles, can minister God's very own comfort of His very own grace which transforms us into the image of Jesus ! ! ! 1 Peter 4:9-10, to me, means that each of us has received "a gift" so we can minister God's very own grace to our brothers and sisters . . . to any who "are in any trouble".

"And the outcome of this comfort is not only feeling good or better, but how the grace of this comfort changes us into the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18."

"Yes, our helping others with God's comfort is a 'reproductive example' which can help others to also be ministering comfort instead of just feeling sorry for themselves or only being about making their own selves feel good."

"all-loving comfort making others all-loving, in the comfort of God's all-loving love"

hmm . . . sounds good to me

So, this is included in being truly rich, how a child of God . . . any of us . . . can do God's such loving good to any person, at all. We care and we can do good, with God > 1 Corinthians 15:58.

and we would not need to be told to help them, although hearing it would be most agreeable anyway. I just believe the Christian life should be a simple one, not a wealthy one. That's just my opinion and my way, and i believe it has greatly blessed me. I just cant see it any other way anymore. Just my opinion.

Well, if you were wealthy, those materials could be a distraction . . . maybe like how Paul says a married person can be distracted by one's spouse (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)?

 

[com7fy8]

So you are a pastor?

I'm not qualified according to our Apostle Paul's standards for who may be just considered to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. I haven't been proven in my own home in my own marriage with my own children, first, which Paul, I understand, says is a basic

Because I have never been married or had children. But possibly I have grown so I could meet the character and behavior qualifications, well enough. But still I am in obvious need for more correction and maturing, for being an example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

But, in case I am getting there, this can help me to understand how my pastor and role models need to become and pastor, so I can help them, work along with them. So, it is good to have members who are capable of pastoring. I seem to be growing into this . . . more of being a "servant leader", as our group leader says. It's good to grow into it and gain the trust of people.

This is another thing, I think, of Christian prosperity > how God Himself is trusting us with people to love and help and care for. And being trustworthy and trusted by people, I would say, is a very precious thing to be greatly appreciated.

So, Mike, do you sense or find that I am a pastor? Or, are you concerned that I could be a wannabe who is "trying"? What do you look for, in someone who you may not really know well?

 

[com7fy8]

Or you could just speak the strainer into existence. That's how WOF does it. Speak away your problems.

I have spent some time communicating with word of faith people and with watching TV broadcasts of ones who seem like they might be word of faith. And I offer > not all are alike > there seem to be ones who are more into growing in Jesus and they share how they are being personally corrected, so we can feed on how we also need God's correction. So, my opinion is I should not be swift to judge. Also, I use a "line-item veto" method > taking what is obviously good and what God can use, and leaving what is questionable or obviously wrong.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

There are counterfeits of the real thing; so I see there can be counterfeit word of faith stuff, and what is Biblical or more Biblical. So, I think I need to let each individual speak for oneself.

And please let's not get side-tracked on criticizing what is wrong, whatever it is. I am asking that we concentrate on what is real and right, though it can help to show what is wrong, in order to magnify how God's way is so right and good.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, from this, I see, if we are the right ones, we need to first evaluate our own selves. I notice how there are people who can be so expert at pointing out how others are wrong, but not so careful to make us wise to themselves and how they can be wrong and misleading.

 

[Extraneous]

I have spent some time communicating with word of faith people and with watching TV broadcasts of ones who seem like they might be word of faith. And I offer > not all are alike > there seem to be ones who are more into growing in Jesus and they share how they are being personally corrected, so we can feed on how we also need God's correction. So, my opinion is I should not be swift to judge. Also, I use a "line-item veto" method > taking what is obviously good and what God can use, and leaving what is questionable or obviously wrong.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

There are counterfeits of the real thing; so I see there can be counterfeit word of faith stuff, and what is Biblical or more Biblical. So, I think I need to let each individual speak for oneself.

And please let's not get side-tracked on criticizing what is wrong, whatever it is. I am asking that we concentrate on what is real and right, though it can help to show what is wrong, in order to magnify how God's way is so right and good.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, from this, I see, if we are the right ones, we need to first evaluate our own selves. I notice how there are people who can be so expert at pointing out how others are wrong, but not so careful to make us wise to themselves and how they can be wrong and misleading.

I dont think you are actually interested in that at all. I'll just bow out brother.

I have been to the WOF forum and they are not interested in proving anything. If you begin to prove something then they accuse you of breaking forum rules. Its against the rules to prove anything in WOF forum. Notice they are mostly silent in the GT forum however, thats because they cant prove their doctrine, all they can do is preach it in their own forum and kick out anyone who questions it.

 

[Extraneous]

THis is supposed to be about proving what biblical prosperity is and how we follow it. If however we decide that its off topic to discus what prosperity is not, then we only tie one arm behind our back. Every time i try to make a point, you seem to agree but then you accuse me of not being humble enough. It seems like a distraction, a diversion, to me. I think the best way to discuss this issue is not divert away from the subject matter, and to not tie our hands either. If thats all you want, then go to the WOF forum, this is GT.

 

[Extraneous]

This is how WOF "proves all things". Watch till the end of the video, see how Mr Copeland says that he has been open and honest, but then he tells the reporter that "its none of her business". These people are not anointed at all, if they were they would be following Paul's doctrine, which they don't. Search the scripture, and see if their doctrine is truth. The berean way. I use to listen to these preachers, till i started reading the bible, that is.

 

[Extraneous]

It doesn't much matter if these preachers are in violation of IRS law or not, which they should not be anyway, but the point is whether they are in violation of perverting the law of Christ, which they claim to teach. They don't need to actually steal this money in a way that violates IRS law, but all they need to do is pay themselves a good wage. Paul wouldn't take money for his services because he didn't want to hurt his ministries reputation. His reward was to know Christ better. His payment was heavenly riches, not earthly riches. These WOF preachers lack so much discernment, and they only lead each other astray, as well as millions of people. They claim to be anointed but in truth they seem to be spiritually blind and deaf, and in need of eye salve to "anoint" their eyes.

Revlation 3:17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”

 

[sunlover1]

What is true biblical prosperity is being in covenant with the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
God owns all the gold and silver.. People think of money as evil when in fact it's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil. There's nothing at all evil about money. We use it to exchange for goods and services.
Without it, I can't give to the poor, can't feed the hungry or be generous as Scripture mandates.
SO obvious that health and life and love are the real deal, money is just something we need.
So to me, there's nothing at all wrong with trying to GET more money.
(We all do it ) God isn't mad at you if you try to get money.
He may be mad at you if you try to tell folks that they're evil for trying to get
more money, Especially if YOU try to get more money yourself.. guessing you have
some sort of income.
I didn't read the thread so forgive me if I'm repeating other's thoughts.

 

[Extraneous]

What is true biblical prosperity is being in covenant with the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
God owns all the gold and silver.. People think of money as evil when in fact it's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil. There's nothing at all evil about money. We use it to exchange for goods and services.
Without it, I can't give to the poor, can't feed the hungry or be generous as Scripture mandates.
SO obvious that health and life and love are the real deal, money is just something we need.
So to me, there's nothing at all wrong with trying to GET more money.
(We all do it ) God isn't mad at you if you try to get money.
He may be mad at you if you try to tell folks that they're evil for trying to get
more money, Especially if YOU try to get more money yourself.. guessing you have
some sort of income.
I didn't read the thread so forgive me if I'm repeating other's thoughts.

The bible said that money is "deceitful". It blinds the best of people. Beware. Store treasure in heaven not earth. Where your treasure is, your heart is also.

 

[sunlover1]

The bible said that money is "deceitful". It blinds the best of people. Beware. Store treasure in heaven not earth. Where your treasure is, your heart is also.

The Bible says a LOT about money, not just one thing. Wives can be deceitful too but it says to get one.
And you can store your treasures in Heaven and STILL get money here on earth to lay up for your grandkids like God said to.

 

[Extraneous]

The Bible says a LOT about money, not just one thing. Wives can be deceitful too but it says to get one.
And you can store your treasures in Heaven and STILL get money here on earth to lay up for your grandkids like God said to.

Grand kids will just fight over it. However, if those grand kids are in the Church then it doesn't much matter does it? If the Church is actually taking care of its own, that is. I never saw where God taught us to store up wealth for our grand kids. I instead saw where the Church should be helping each other. Why would grand kids need money if the Church helps them? What you say sounds like it fails to live up to spiritual teaching.

 

[com7fy8]

You are our best of everything,
supply of all our need;
to You may we all praises sing;
You heed our every need.
We could not first love you,
but first You brought us through;
You are our sure excuse
to trust in none but You.
Oh, though we do stray in expectations,
You do not forsake Your sheep,
but keep us in Your chastening
til we obey Your rest and peace . . .
share Your true things with You,
with whom we have to do . . .
turn vain things to Your use,
depend on none but You
to draw us to that adoration
intimate with joy so sweet,
that we may share in intercession's
love and groanings at Christ's feet - - -
in perfect love with You,
with one another, too;
forgetting all behind Jesus
to stay our mind on You;
forgiving all less than Jesus,
to depend on none but You;
forsaking all below Jesus,
to stake all our claim in You
who are our best of everything

 

[com7fy8]

THis is supposed to be about proving what biblical prosperity is and how we follow it. If however we decide that its off topic to discus what prosperity is not, then we only tie one arm behind our back. Every time i try to make a point, you seem to agree but then you accuse me of not being humble enough.

Things I have written above are meant as general statements for all of us. I do not think I have written anything which was meant to directly accuse you. I was not consciously trying to accuse you of anything; so maybe you have misunderstood what I meant. I have clearly said I think you made some very good points about what is good and Biblical prosperity, including how we are content. And I thank you for this. God bless you

Our Apostle Paul does say,

"And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content." (1 Timothy 6:8)

Also, Paul says,

"Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content. I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need." (Philippians 4:11-12)

So, Biblical prosperity includes this contentment which I call "unconditional contentment".

 

[Extraneous]

Things I have written above are meant as general statements for all of us. I do not think I have written anything which was meant to directly accuse you. I was not consciously trying to accuse you of anything; so maybe you have misunderstood what I meant. I have clearly said I think you made some very good points about what is good and Biblical prosperity, including how we are content. And I thank you for this. God bless you

Our Apostle Paul does say,

"And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content." (1 Timothy 6:8)

Also, Paul says,

"Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content. I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need." (Philippians 4:11-12)

So, Biblical prosperity includes this contentment which I call "unconditional contentment".

Maybe i have misunderstood you, if so then please forgive my misunderstanding.

 

[com7fy8]

SO obvious that health and life and love are the real deal, money is just something we need.

I think this is a very good and simple point . . . how money is not what really is our need. Money does not love us. And money has no conscience; so this could be "why" certain people love money. But we need to become able to relate in love with other people >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

We need to be ready with "longsuffering", in relating with one another who are children of God God knows each of us can at times be wrong, somehow; so He includes how we need to ready to be longsuffering in relating even with other children of God. And this is included in all the good God desires for us.

And part of our real prosperity is we seek to have what is precious to our Heavenly Father, in order to please Him >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

God's love makes us gentle and quiet and content

 

[com7fy8]

Maybe i have misunderstood you, if so then please forgive my misunderstanding.

Maybe what you are concerned about is how I said we need to first be attentive to how we ourselves can be wrong; I meant this not only for you, but for all of us who are God's children, and so we are examples of honesty and receiving our own correction > 1 Peter 5:3. It can be especially helpful to help those who are close to us to be wise to us, so we don't bring them down when we are wrong. I know I did not really say it like this, but it also helps to have people who know us.

For example, I can be paranoid and very quick to criticize, and my lady friend knows this > I "had" to get her to see this, since she can think there is nothing wrong with me, Extraneous!

But now she can spot when I could be getting paranoid and unrealistic, or critical and not compassionate, and she may say something, and I might not like it, but I get corrected and it does me a lot of good. So, this is good, I think, for having trust with one another. And I think that wholesome love is what is really rich Ones can use money to try to get what they suppose is love, but money can not buy real love.

So, thank you, Extraneous, for doing what you can to evaluate me Because helping each other is part of our prosperity > Paul does say, "in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another", in Colossians 3:18. I understand that "admonishing" can include not accusing but warning, and giving each other perspective about what can be wrong. It can be preventive; prevention is better God bless us

 

[mikedsjr]

Com, you still haven't defined prosperity, in the dictionary sense. I can't think of any time where prosperity doesn't involve lots of money(wealth). It can certainly involve lots of other factors you name, but money is part of the equation. This is why your terminology doesn't make sense to me. You don't seem to be describing prosperity at all. You seem to be describing contentment, not prosperity. So the proper title should have been, "what is Biblical contentment, and how do we seek it?" Still, this isn't even right because seeking contentment means one is not content and can't achieve contentment. It's always seeking

As for why I asked if you were a pastor, you used a verse for yourself regarding those who by definition are pastors, "the laborer deserves his wage".