Catholic Controversies and the Difficulty Finding a Full General Consensus?

[GoldenKingGaze]

As a young man I was one of many who did not know what he believed as a Catholic. And I was humiliated by being taught, of the head theories, and catechism contrary to what I later found out was meant to believe, after I became a Protestant.

Ideas like, how dare you want to prosper, and have millions? You should only have moderate wealth and work for it, five days a week.

You should wait for marriage, when you get married, you and your wife can do anything you want.

Most mental illness are rooted in the fall of Adam, things we inherit within. They are not caused by spirits.

When you die, God will build you a new material body in Heaven.

Unless you have done something really bad, when you die, you'll go to Heaven.

I can explain why these are not Catholic teachings now.

Pope Benedict, wrote a letter to the church, on love, but could not get all the officials, maybe the holy see, and all the trained apologists to agree. So he retired. Then came Pope Francis.

As a young man, my parish priest practiced prosperity with his parish assistant and owned a country house. He did not take vows of poverty and could explain his actions as an ordained PP. He would heal the sick with the Spirit's power and had more church attendance than many other priests. His confessional was very good. I was relieved from trembling with Jesus' blood there. He could explain why the prayers to Mary, were not worship... Sometimes his Bible based answers were short, and he prayed for me, and told me to read the Bible, several times.

He advised me not to place weight on the sayings of a nun nearby, and yes she was a bit odd. Mercy ministries, you can always melt people's hearts, by showing them mercy.

Some Catholic apologists teach prosperity is a sin for sure, but not all agree. From the Canon Lawyer Fr John Flader, "Prosperity is a good thing, it creates, products and services, and creates jobs." That is the simple, at first basis.

Can Catholics overcome controversy and be of one mind?

 

[jas3]

I don't think you'll find anything in any Christian teaching that promotes the love of wealth as a positive thing. Here is what the Catholic Catechism says:

1723. The beatitude we are promised confronts us with decisive moral choices. It invites us to purify our hearts of bad instincts and to seek the love of God above all else. It teaches us that true happiness is not found in riches or well-being, in human fame or power, or in any human achievement - however beneficial it may be - such as science, technology, and art, or indeed in any creature, but in God alone, the source of every good and of all love:

'All bow down before wealth. Wealth is that to which the multitude of men pay an instinctive homage. They measure happiness by wealth; and by wealth they measure respectability. . . . It is a homage resulting from a profound faith . . . that with wealth he may do all things. Wealth is one idol of the day and notoriety is a second. . . . Notoriety, or the making of a noise in the world - it may be called "newspaper fame" - has come to be considered a great good in itself, and a ground of veneration.'

There are also repeated warnings in Scripture against the love of money: it is the "root of all evil," "you cannot serve both God and money," and "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."
Also, there is a huge gap between being prosperous (in the true sense of the word, not the "prosperity gospel" sense) and wanting to "have millions."

Side note: did you mean to post this in the History forum?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don't think you'll find anything in any Christian teaching that promotes the love of wealth as a positive thing. Here is what the Catholic Catechism says:

There are also repeated warnings in Scripture against the love of money: it is the "root of all evil," "you cannot serve both God and money," and "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."
Also, there is a huge gap between being prosperous (in the true sense of the word, not the "prosperity gospel" sense) and wanting to "have millions."

Side note: did you mean to post this in the History forum?

Good points, it is possible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom, when I did, I was poor! Compare a poor man from Sydney Australia, with a ordinary man in Ethiopia.

I recall Chinese rice Christians.

I chose to question general consensus in Catholic and interfaith history.

After a man has the Kingdom and loves God and his mission field with all his heart, he can handle 80,000,000 USD, like CFAN who boasted that for each dollar donated, they made one convert. The Catholics in Nigeria must benefit from that.

One can love what money can do, to love money is avarice and unclean. It can lead to adultery and murder, and divorce...

I do not think there a consensus on what defines, the prosperity Gospel. I personally feel bad for people who think they must tithe. Their pastors may be wealthy. They may not love money.

Money can enable mission trips, look at John G Lake, he was wealthy, but gave all his money to the poor and went to Africa, most of his team died of poverty. Another man I know made a million dollars in 1990, was converted powerfully, sold his business, went on a healing evangelists' mission on foot in Romania, was successful, planted a church and took a wife, he is all good now.

In the beginning prosperity was a sign of God's favour, example being Abraham, also David and Solomon. As time went on as in the book of Micah, it was a sign of corruption. Now it is a sign of shrewd persons. But the ancient promises still live, and are real, God loves us to claim them. They are yes and amen.

Justice leads to prosperity in a community. Sound safety in transactions, assurance and fair make, products and services.

I do not take the Bible literally.

I celebrate Christmas, but really, I am so poor now, that I can hardly buy gifts.

I could handle millions, even tens of...

I was thinking of pope Benedict and letter and controversies so put this in history. Catholic youth are vulnerable to false catechism.

For love of people, it is best to work directly for them, rather than to spend on them. A millionaire had an NDE and returned selling his business and worked with the various needy.

Before conversion, that part I did, if I had millions and was shrewd, it is possible, I would not be saved. Maybe I would have been, I don't know, it was sickness that led me to turn to God in fear of death.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Pope Benedict, wrote a letter to the church, on love, but could not get all the officials, maybe the holy see, and all the trained apologists to agree. So he retired.

I don't think that was the actual reason, or even a major contributor reason.

Then came Pope Francis.

Had pope Benedict stayed in office longer ....

Some Catholic apologists teach prosperity is a sin for sure, but not all agree.

The 'Prosperity Gospel'TM an uncommon teaching in the Catholic Church

Can Catholics overcome controversy and be of one mind?

Nope. Any more than the Orthodox could be of one mind on everything, or Protestants could be of one mind on anything. Pretty impossible. And yet on the 'Prosperity Gospel' we are much more united against it than on almost anything else. It's an exceptionally rare Catholic that thinks he is rich due to some prosperity dynamic. We, for the most part, just don't think that way. Or sadly maybe just way more middle class in values.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Someone who wants millions of say Lira should not be blocked. If Italy had been moderated, by now it would be Turkey like Istanbul, which was once Constantinople. It is dangerous to fast and live on the edge of not enough. A pregnant wife and a small child and no food, partly because big industry like frozen foods and transport are not there, or only atheists can grow large enterprises.

 

[Simon_Templar]

As a young man I was one of many who did not know what he believed as a Catholic. And I was humiliated by being taught, of the head theories, and catechism contrary to what I later found out was meant to believe, after I became a Protestant.

Ideas like, how dare you want to prosper, and have millions? You should only have moderate wealth and work for it, five days a week.

You should wait for marriage, when you get married, you and your wife can do anything you want.

Most mental illness are rooted in the fall of Adam, things we inherit within. They are not caused by spirits.

When you die, God will build you a new material body in Heaven.

Unless you have done something really bad, when you die, you'll go to Heaven.

I can explain why these are not Catholic teachings now.

Pope Benedict, wrote a letter to the church, on love, but could not get all the officials, maybe the holy see, and all the trained apologists to agree. So he retired. Then came Pope Francis.

As a young man, my parish priest practiced prosperity with his parish assistant and owned a country house. He did not take vows of poverty and could explain his actions as an ordained PP. He would heal the sick with the Spirit's power and had more church attendance than many other priests. His confessional was very good. I was relieved from trembling with Jesus' blood there. He could explain why the prayers to Mary, were not worship... Sometimes his Bible based answers were short, and he prayed for me, and told me to read the Bible, several times.

He advised me not to place weight on the sayings of a nun nearby, and yes she was a bit odd. Mercy ministries, you can always melt people's hearts, by showing them mercy.

Some Catholic apologists teach prosperity is a sin for sure, but not all agree. From the Canon Lawyer Fr John Flader, "Prosperity is a good thing, it creates, products and services, and creates jobs." That is the simple, at first basis.

Can Catholics overcome controversy and be of one mind?

Well, most of the stuff you mention here, as far as I understand you, is actually Catholic teaching.

The correct Catholic view on something like prosperity is that prosperity is good, and it is a blessing, but it can also be a temptation. This is true of most material things. All created things (which includes all material things) are good by nature. God made them. But, they can also become distractions and dangers to us when we put too much desire and too much emphasis on them.

As a result Jesus gave us what are known as the three evangelical counsels. Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience.

All Christians are called to live these in some way depending on your vocation in life. People who are called to celibate service to the Kingdom can embrace poverty more literally, because they don't need wealth for family etc.

People who have family can't and shouldn't embrace economic destitution because they have a duty to provide for their family.
Even being rich is not wrong, so long as you maintain an attitude of generosity and humility. If you regard your wealth as something you can easily part with and use to bless others and to do good work, then you are doing well.

The New Testament tells us that giving alms (giving money to the poor) is one of our duties, but you can't give money to the poor, if you have no money. So it is both good to embrace poverty, if that is what God called you to, and it is good to have wealth so you can use it for God, if that is what God called you to.

The basic truth of this is that all created things are good. They only become a danger to us when we become too attached to them and make idols of them.

Do you have more specific questions?

 

[Aviel]

Reader,

Lets say that a young mother ......is not born again, and they have 6 young children.
She is 25 yrs old, and her husband left her, after #6 was yet to be born.
Two of the Children are Twins., the boys...... and 4 are little girls.
'Mary" is dirt poor and on food stamps....and the children are dressed in rags, none of them are over 6, and often they are barefoot in the winter.

So, on one side of Mary, is a Christian family, who believes that if they are starving (and so are their 3 children), then that is a "Godly sign of Spirituality".
They teach and preach the "poverty gospel" as their faith, even tho the Bible teaches that "Poverty is the destruction of the poor".

On the other side of Mary, is a family of Believers, and they have been blessed abundantly beyond measure, and they give some of their money into the work of God, and He's keeps giving them more of His money, through them.
They have the favor of God on them, and Jesus said, I have come to "give you life, and that more abundantly".

So, Mary the young single mother, and her 6 children, need a new furnace., and its winter and they are very cold in their wood frame house that has no funace heat.

1.) So, she goes to the "poverty gospel Christians" and says...>"can you help us"?
And the Poverty Gospel Christians say...>"...oh...would that we could..... but we have nothing we can give you, and we too are freezing every winter, but God is well pleased.. and ... God bless.""""".

And Mary says......'"ummmm, ok, thanks".

2.) Then Mary goes to the other Christian neighbors, and says... "Can you help me and my children, we are so cold"'..
And the Christian man and wife invite her in for a moment, and they listen... and they say......" Mary, hon....you are coming here to stay with us, right now.....and your children also. And we'll put sleeping bags on the carpeted floors and find a way to keep us all warm, and tomorrow, we'll call the Furnace Specialist and have them come and repair... or put in a new furnace in for you, and we'll see about helping you pay off your mortgage also.. And we'll go shopping tomorrow for some socks and shoes for your kids"...Now Mary, we are here for you, we are your new family, because God loves you and so do we.".


Now reader.

Are you paying attention?

Then....You've already seen what i wanted you to see.

- God bless.