What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

[Bible2]

Alfred Persson said in post 99:

The major component of this mystery of lawlessness already at work in the days of Paul that rose up again in these last days is the revival of the Pentecostal/Charismaniac counterfeit Spirit movement first seen in the first century:

The Holy Spirit's gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10), which operate in believers who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46), won't cease operating until Jesus' 2nd coming. For 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 means that just as only when children become adults do they put away childish things, so only when believers become perfect when they see Jesus face to face at his 2nd coming (1 John 3:2) will they no longer need the Spiritual gifts of prophecy, tongues, and the word of knowledge (1 Corinthians 12:8,10). During the future tribulation, which will just precede the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), are some in the church going to reject the ministry of the two witnesses, simply because it will involve them prophesying and performing miracles (Revelation 11:3,6)?

Because the 2nd coming, like the preceding tribulation, hasn't happened yet, all the Spirit's gifts are still operating in the church today, within Pentecostal-type congregations, and within charismatic-type congregations, which can be of almost any denomination. God's Word commands believers to operate in the Spiritual gifts when believers come together (1 Corinthians 14:26-31). So congregations today should be careful not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), such as by despising prophesyings (1 Thessalonians 5:20) or forbidding all speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39). Tongues are one of the Spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) through which believers can be regularly edified (1 Corinthians 14:4,5,12,26). Not all Holy Spirit-baptized believers will speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30), but almost all will (cf. Acts 19:6, Acts 10:45-46), for tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28; 1 Corinthians 14:5).

Different believers receive different kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:10). Some tongues are languages which people can understand (Acts 2:4,8), while other tongues are languages which people can't understand (1 Corinthians 14:2), not even the speakers (1 Corinthians 14:14). Unintelligible tongues could include ancient human languages which are unknown to history, ancient human languages which are known to history but aren't understood, and angelic languages (1 Corinthians 13:1). Unintelligible tongues aren't useless, however, for when they are prayed or sung privately to God without interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2,28), they edify the spirits of those who speak or sing them (1 Corinthians 14:4,14-15, Jude 1:20), to bless God and thank God (1 Corinthians 14:16). And when unintelligible tongues are prayed or sung out loud in a congregation, and then Spiritually interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10b-11), their interpretation edifies the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:5b,12,13,26). When Christians sing in tongues to God, they are singing the "spiritual songs" which the Bible distinguishes from psalms and hymns (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

The Bible sets no restrictions on how much believers can pray and sing to God in tongues out loud at home, or silently in church (1 Corinthians 14:28) (just as regular praying can be done silently: 1 Samuel 1:13,17). Indeed, Paul the apostle prayed and sung to God in tongues in private more than anyone (1 Corinthians 14:18-19). But regarding church meetings, the Bible sets strict rules on speaking tongues out loud: They aren't to be spoken out loud in church meetings unless there is someone present who can Spiritually interpret them to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:28). And even when a tongues-interpreter is present, at the most only 3 people should in turn speak out loud in unknown tongues, which should then be interpreted to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:27). Everyone who has received the gift of tongues should be praying for the separate gift of the interpretation of tongues, so he or she can edify others (1 Corinthians 14:12-13; 1 Corinthians 12:10b).

--

Besides getting water baptized, believers can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it's not usually automatically given to them the moment they become believers. That's why Paul the apostle asked some believers: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

Believers usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). (Again) Holy Spirit baptism won't result in speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8,9,10,11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many believers haven't yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they haven't yet asked for it, under the principle of "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many believers haven't yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it's no longer in effect. Believers can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.

Alfred Persson said in post 99:

So all the prophets of Christendom, Shamanism, Paganism, UFO Contactees, all with one voice prophesy the Antichrist is Christ.

"Anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist will ever claim to be Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Alfred Persson said in post 99:

And that is where the ufo deception comes in, some of Satan's fallen angels will appear as Nephilim, as happened in the days of Noah, claiming to be UFO aliens with wondrous technology, to help mankind ascend to the next evolutionary level.

Some people feel that Christians mustn't believe in the existence of aliens, for then Christians could be deceived by entities such as Satan and other fallen angelic beings or demons claiming to be aliens. But the existence of aliens doesn't require that all aliens must be good, just as the existence of angels doesn't require that all angels must be good. Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4), by his obedience to YHWH God (Mark 12:29-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b). Also, the Bible doesn't say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by "aliens" is a dangerous distraction. Christians need to also be careful of being deceived even by angels of light.

When an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19), if they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they're YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The 4 fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind completely desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when the army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on mankind. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the Prime Minister of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It's at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of the 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

 

[Interplanner]

B2,
I see you still have not learned to answer "why?" questions. You robotically say that Mt 24's intro jumps to our future. You robotically deny any lead up from chs 21, 22, 23 about the end of the city, which of course shape the word "end" when you read it in ch 24. You have to answer "why" questions or your comments are nonsense.

Don't write 2 pages of "what"--you have thousands of worthless pages of that here. "Why" is either answered in a line or it is not.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Holy Spirit's gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10), which operate in believers who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46), won't cease operating until Jesus' 2nd coming. ...

You missed the point entirely, this isn't about continuance of the gifts (which as a cessationist, I reject), but whether a person doing Christian like signs and wonders might be doing them by an antichrist spirit, rather than the Holy Spirit of Christ.

If Antichristians can do signs and wonders by the Holy Spirit, THEN we cannot know them by their fruits and Christ made a mistake saying we could:

16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Mat 7:16-23 NKJ)

As it is impossible Christ is wrong, then we CAN know by the fruits of a miracle worker, whether their signs and wonders are from the Holy Spirit, or the antichrist spirit.

6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:6 NKJ)

Christ said those who practice lawlessness NEVER knew Him, that means they don't do their signs and wonders by the Holy Spirit of Christ.

Its that simple, The real outward physical evidence one had received the Holy Spirit is practicing lawfulness, that is, obeying Christ's Father who commands all to obey His Word, without deviation.

Some can't accept this elegant truth, that fruits reveal whether one is inspired by Christ, or antichrist spirit. They argue, suppose a genuine miracle worker begins sinning, what happens then.

They then prove they never were true Christians from the beginning. All "seeds," whether darnel or wheat...look alike, its only after they grow into plants that they look different.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
(Mat 13:24-30 NKJ)

So, we can't know if a seed is Christian or not, but as that person grows, he reveals what kind of plant he is. And if he is doing miracles, but lives like the Devil, then we know by his fruit, he is antichrist.

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
(1Jo 2:18-19 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

If by the UFO deception you mean the idea that aliens could exist, note that nothing in the Bible requires that aliens can't exist.

The universe is so vast, with something like 100 billion different galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion different stars, that even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has a planet with intelligent life on it, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets....

Its irrelevant how vast the universe is, regardless where one throws a stone upward, gravity will pull it downward. That remains true regardless how many trillions of planets there are, or how often the experiment is done on them. Gravity always pulls down, what is thrown up.

As your speculation about trillions of inhabited planets, rests upon one an impossible premise, that evolution happened on earth, just as with gravity, that stone won't fly regardless which of the trillions of trillions of trillions of planets, you experiment on.

The Bible teaches creation in 6 days, not evolution. Therefore, if God didn't create life on another planet, it doesn't exist even if there are trillions times trillions times trillions of planets.

Creationists have presented many sound proofs of the Bible teaching found in Genesis, they have convinced me. In fact, it was disproving evolution that led to my reading the Bible for the first time, till then I wasn't interested.

And the Bible confirmed in every way, it is the Word of God and is to be believed. The Bible teaches creationism, not evolution.

I gain lots of comfort from this. Its a reasonable conclusion, reasoning from the variety of life on this planet, how superior life would treat inferior life---it would become its food;

IN fact, from the data one can consider it axiomatic the more intelligent the life, the more likely inferior life would become food or raw material for other products.

So I always disliked what SETI was doing, sending out radio waves into space, what fools these secularists are. But now that I know evolution is impossible---superior life cannot be found on other planets in the universe, their stupidity is harmless.

 

[parousia70]

As your speculation about trillions of inhabited planets, rests upon one an impossible premise, that evolution happened on earth

Not hardly.

The Bible teaches creation in 6 days, not evolution. Therefore, if God didn't create life on another planet, it doesn't exist even if there are trillions times trillions times trillions of planets.

And your speculation about there NOT being life on other planets rests upon the unprovable premise that God did NOT choose to create Life on those other worlds too...

Yet If God DID create, and offer salvation to, life on a trillion other worlds, what's it to ya?

We have our Bible for our Earth and for our people.. .our redemptive plan is not dependent on any other planet's "people's" redemptive plan having been revealed to us.

Who's to say God hasn't duplicated this experiment elsewhere, and sent His only begotten Son a trillion other places to save trillions of other souls?

And What a treat that would be to reach out to those worlds and hear a radio signal back saying "the peace of Christ be with you"!!


Go SETI go!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Not hardly.



And your speculation about there NOT being life on other planets rests upon the unprovable premise that God did NOT choose to create Life on those other worlds too...

Yet If God DID create, and offer salvation to, life on a trillion other worlds, what's it to ya?

We have our Bible for our Earth and for our people.. .our redemptive plan is not dependent on any other planet's "people's" redemptive plan having been revealed to us.

Who's to say God hasn't duplicated this experiment elsewhere, and sent His only begotten Son a trillion other places to save trillions of other souls?

And What a treat that would be to reach out to those worlds and hear a radio signal back saying "the peace of Christ be with you"!!


Go SETI go!

Your argument from silence conflicts with Scripture. Gary Bates answers the question well, so I'll just quote him:

It is often asked, ‘Just because the Bible teaches about God creating intelligent life only on Earth, why couldn’t He have done so elsewhere?’ After all, Scripture does not discuss everything, e.g. motorcars. However, the biblical objection to ET is not merely an argument from silence. Motor cars, for example, are not a salvation issue, but we believe that sentient,intelligent, moral-decision-capable beings is, because it would undermine the authority of Scripture. In short, understanding the big picture of the Bible/gospel message allows us to conclude clearly that the reason the Bible doesn’t mention extraterrestrials (ETs) is that there aren’t any.1 Surely, if the earth were to be favoured with a visitation by real extraterrestrials from a galaxy far, far away, then one would reasonably expect that the Bible, and God in His sovereignty and foreknowledge, to mention such a momentous occasion, because it would clearly redefine man's place in the universe.

1. The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans and travails under the weight of sin (Romans 8:18–22). The effect of the Curse following Adam’s Fall was universal.2 Otherwise what would be the point of God destroying this whole creation to make way for a new heavens and Earth—2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1 ff? Therefore, any ETs living elsewhere would have been (unjustly) affected by the Adamic Curse through no fault of their own—they would not have inherited Adam’s sin nature.
2. When Christ (God) appeared in the flesh, He came to Earth not only to redeem mankind but eventually the whole creation back to Himself (Romans 8:21, Colossians 1:20). However, Christ’s atoning death at Calvary cannot save these hypothetical ETs, because one needs to be a physical descendant of Adam for Christ to be our ‘kinsman-redeemer’ (Isaiah 59:20). Jesus was called ‘the last Adam’ because there was a real first man, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:22,45)—not a first Vulcan, Klingon etc. This is so a sinless human Substitute takes on the punishment all humans deserve for sin (Isaiah 53:6,10; Matthew 20:28; 1 John 2:2, 4:10), with no need to atone for any (non-existent) sin of his own (Hebrews 7:27).
3. Since this would mean that any ETs would be lost for eternity when this present creation is destroyed in a fervent heat (2 Peter 3:10, 12), some have wondered whether Christ’s sacrifice might be repeated elsewhere for other beings. However, Christ died once for all (Romans 6:10, 1 Peter 3:18) on the earth. He is not going to be crucified and resurrected again on other planets (Hebrews 9:26). This is confirmed by the fact that the redeemed (earthly) church is known as Christ’s bride (Ephesians 5:22–33; Revelation 19:7–9) in a marriage that will last for eternity.3 Christ is not going to be a polygamist with many other brides from other planets.
4. The Bible makes no provision for God to redeem any other species, any more than to redeem fallen angels (Hebrews 2:16).

http://www.creation.com/did-god-create-life-on-other-planets

But this fact will be disputed by the UFO deception Satan will unleash on the world, and many who rightly concluded with Mr. Bates there aren't extraterrestrial races, but otherwise aren't solid in their faith, will be sorely tested by the UFO landing that is likely a part of the strong delusion God will send upon the earth, meaning He will stop preventing fallen angels once again appear as Nephilim on the earth, as they did in the Days of Noah.

And then creationist argument that intelligent design point to God the intelligent Designer, will be subverted by these "aliens" who will claim they "seeded" and "shepherded" human evolution.

Then Evolutionists who KNOW in their heart of hearts intelligent design proves life must have had a Designer, but resist the conclusion because it requires a belief in God which they simply refuse to do, will gladly discard their evolutionary hypothesis and enthusiastically proclaim aliens MUST have intelligently designed life as life's intelligent design and sudden appearance in the fossil record proves it!

So it will be a very dark time, when everyone's love of the truth (found only in Scripture) will be tested:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 "See, I have told you beforehand. (Mat 24:24-25 NKJ)

 

[Bible2]

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

You missed the point entirely, this isn't about continuance of the gifts (which as a cessationist, I reject), but whether a person doing Christian like signs and wonders might be doing them by an antichrist spirit, rather than the Holy Spirit of Christ.

That is possible. And a prime example of it will occur in our future. For just as the Antichrist could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36, so his False Prophet could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of Revelation 13:13, when he will miraculously call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone. He could do this as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:19-40. For example, he could first gather together all the most prominent leaders of the Christian community worldwide to the Champ de Mars (Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon), which is the large open space in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And he could then tell them during a ceremony televised and webcasted live worldwide to pray to YHWH God to send fire down and destroy the Tower.

And when the Christian leaders pray and YHWH doesn't do anything (by his own choice), the False Prophet could then pray to Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4) to send fire down and destroy the Tower. And Lucifer could do so (allowed to do so by YHWH), so that 1 Kings 18:38-40 will be turned on its head, so that news reporters could write (in their words) "Then the fire of Lucifer fell, and consumed the Eiffel Tower. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. And they said, Lucifer is God, Lucifer is God. And the True Prophet said to them: 'Take these men of YHWH! Let not one of them escape!' And they took them. And the True Prophet brought them down to the river Seine, and slew them there" (as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:38-40).

But would YHWH really let something like this happen? Would he let Christians pray to him to send fire down from heaven but refuse to do so, while allowing Lucifer to send fire down at the beck of the False Prophet? Yes, YHWH could let this happen, as a test to Christians, to see if they love signs and wonders more than YHWH (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Believers must always remember that not all signs and wonders are from the true God, that Lucifer/Satan can also give people the power to perform them (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), in order to deceive people (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20).

The way not to be deceived is to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God (John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), no matter how amazing the miracles are of someone who teaches something that contradicts the Bible (Matthew 24:24; 1 Timothy 4:1). And the way to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God is not to continue in any unrepentant sin, for otherwise our conscience could become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where we could no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after our own lusts heap to ourselves teachers who teach us fables which support us in our lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4), to where we could even become willing to depart from the faith itself, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

You missed the point entirely, this isn't about continuance of the gifts (which as a cessationist, I reject), but whether a person doing Christian like signs and wonders might be doing them by an antichrist spirit, rather than the Holy Spirit of Christ.

Regarding something evil being "Christian like", it's important for Christians to realize that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is so important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could lie and say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could lie and say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

 

[Bible2]

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Matthew 7:16-20 isn't contradicting the fact that truly saved people can wrongly employ their free will to bring forth some corrupt fruit, as in some unrepentant sinful actions, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27). Similarly, Matthew 7:16-20 isn't contradicting the fact that truly saved people can wrongly employ their free will to fail to bring forth good fruit, as in becoming utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8). Instead, regarding truly saved people, Matthew 7:16-20 is simply showing how to determine whether an initially saved person is "good" or has wrongly employed his free will to return to being corrupt (2 Peter 2:20-22).

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Mat 7:16-23 NKJ)

Matthew 7:21-23 shows that both faith and actual obedience to God are required for believers to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But there's no assurance they will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole (like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole). For Matthew 7:22 could refer to saved people, believers in the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and had truly performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so that they had to be completely rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that's one of the signs that people are saved, that they're believers in the gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be very careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

They argue, suppose a genuine miracle worker begins sinning, what happens then.

They then prove they never were true Christians from the beginning.

Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that saved people are robots. For if saved people can't choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance that he is truly saved. For if a Christian who doesn't persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance that he is truly saved, for no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road he could fail to persevere, and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

But under true, Biblical doctrine, every believer in the gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) if when he became a believer in the gospel he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a saved person fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin 70 times 7 times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

Alfred Persson said in post 103:

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
(1Jo 2:18-19 NKJ)

1 John 2:19 doesn't require that apostate believers were never real believers, but can mean that apostate believers were never of the overcomers to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). Real believers who have their names written in the book of life can have their names blotted out if they fail to overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). People can really believe only for awhile before at some point wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

1 John 2:18-19 can refer to Christians who eventually became Gnostic-type Christians (cf. 2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3), and so left the church because of its (correct) insistence that Christ is in the flesh (Luke 24:39).

*******

Alfred Persson said in post 104:

The Bible teaches creationism, not evolution.

An old earth and evolution can be true without contradicting creationism, because evolution per se (random mutation and survival of the fittest) can coexist with miraculous creation, just as an automated process created by a human (e.g. a computer program which makes random, colorful pictures which can be seen as art) can coexist with that human sometimes performing a task himself directly (painting some pictures by hand). I.e., evolution per se can simply be a process created by God to allow new, adaptive species to arise naturally over time, and this process can coexist with him sometimes creating species miraculously.

Some people ask why would God wait millions of years for something to evolve from a one-celled organism when he could just instantly create it? He could do that for the same reason that he has a human start out as a one-celled organism, a zygote in its mother's womb. He then has it only gradually develop through natural means into an embryo, and then into a fetus, and then into a baby, and then into a toddler, and then into an adolescent, and then into an adult. And he has other animals develop gradually in a similar way. And he has plants start out as seeds. So it must give God pleasure to see living organisms develop naturally over time, just as it must give him pleasure to also sometimes create plants and animals miraculously, instantaneously, already fully-formed, like he did in Genesis 1:11-13 and Genesis 1:20-27, during 3 of the 7 literal, 24-hour days of Genesis 1:3 to 2:4.

Creationism includes what could be called the double-gap theory, meaning that there could have been two different gaps of time in Genesis chapters 1-2, the first gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and the 2nd gap between Genesis 2:4 and Genesis 2:5. Genesis 1:1 could have occurred some 4.5 billion years ago, when God first created the planet earth and its atmosphere (the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20b). Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 some 4.5 billion years could have occurred in which God could have allowed his own created process of evolution to serve as a mechanism by which new species arose on the earth. During those same 4.5 billion years God could have also gone outside of evolution and created new species miraculously whenever he wanted to (cf. punctuated equilibria).

Genesis 1:2 could refer to the condition of the earth only about 12,000 years ago (at the end of the Paleolithic period), after some cataclysm, such as a comet strike, had killed off all life on the planet (both evolved and miraculously created), and had submerged all land areas in water (comets contain huge amounts of water), and had ruined the atmosphere. The impact of the comet could have also knocked the earth out of its orbit around its original star, so that the earth was sent hurtling into the darkness of interstellar space as a "rogue planet" (astronomers estimate that rogue planets in our galaxy could outnumber the stars in our galaxy). Genesis 1:3 to 2:4 could then refer to God, over a period of 6 literal, 24-hour days (some 12,000 years ago, at the start of the Neolithic period), miraculously restoring to the earth light, a good atmosphere, dry land, and life, including a race of male and female homo sapiens sapiens, after God had miraculously restored land plants (Genesis 1:11-13) and land animals (Genesis 1:24-25) to the earth.

Then, only about 6,000 years ago God miraculously created on the earth an individual male homo sapiens sapiens named Adam in an uninhabited desert land (Genesis 2:5-7; there, the original Hebrew word translated as "earth" can simply refer to a certain "land": e.g. Genesis 2:11). After that, God planted the plants of the local, Garden of Eden in that desert land (Genesis 2:8-9) and God placed Adam in that garden (Genesis 2:15). Then God miraculously created the animals of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:19). Then God miraculously created in the Garden of Eden an individual female homo sapiens sapiens (Genesis 2:22) whom Adam named Eve (Genesis 3:20).

Because Adam was created only about 6,000 years ago (based on Biblical chronology), yet there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as about 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) as far back as about 200,000 years. Also, all the different hominid forms the fossils of which long predate or are as old as the earliest fossils of homo sapiens sapiens, and which preceding or coexisting hominid forms we don't consider to have been fully human like us (such as homo sapiens neanderthalensis), could have all been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) over millions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth.

And this doesn't even get into the possibly trillion other inhabited planets in the universe on which homo sapiens sapiens (or similar or far more advanced life-forms) could have been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) billions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. For the universe could be about 14 billion years old, and there are something like 100 billion different galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has an inhabited planet, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. And on most of these, God could have begun his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) billions of years before beginning his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) on the earth.

 

[Bible2]

Alfred Persson quoted Bates in post 106:

The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans and travails under the weight of sin (Romans 8:18–22).

Romans 8:22 can refer to only the whole earthly creation, just as Genesis 1 can refer to only the creation of the earth.

Some people feel that Genesis 1:1 refers to the creation of the universe, so that the subsequent verses making no reference to the creation of aliens means that they can't possibly exist. But in Genesis 1:1 the original Hebrew word (shamayim, H8064) translated as "heaven" or "heavens" can be translated simply as the "air" in which the birds fly (e.g. Genesis 1:30; 1 Samuel 17:44, Proverbs 30:19). So Genesis 1:1 doesn't have to be referring to when God created the universe (which could be some 14 billion years old), or to when God created any of the other inhabited planets which could exist in the universe. Instead, Genesis 1:1 can simply be referring to when God created the earth (which could be some 4.5 billion years old) and its atmosphere.

Also, if someone rightly believes that God created angels, even though Genesis chapters 1-2 make no reference to angels, then why can't he believe that God could have created aliens, even though Genesis chapters 1-2 make no reference to aliens? And if God could have created both angels and aliens, then why couldn't some phenomena known as UFOs be angelic or demonic and some be alien? (Most could simply be unidentified human aircraft or spacecraft, or planetary or star lights under extraordinary atmospheric conditions.)

Alfred Persson quoted Bates in post 106:

The effect of the Curse following Adam’s Fall was universal.2 Otherwise what would be the point of God destroying this whole creation to make way for a new heavens and Earth—2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1 ff?

Regarding "a new heavens", 2 Peter 3:13 and Revelation 21:1 can refer to God destroying only the earth's atmosphere and creating a new atmosphere. For the original Greek word (ouranos, G3772) translated as "heavens" or "heaven" doesn't have to mean the entire universe. Instead, it can mean only the first heavens/heaven, the skies/the earth's atmosphere, the "air" in which the birds fly (Matthew 6:26, Matthew 8:20, Matthew 13:32), the "sky" which can turn red at sunset or sunrise (Matthew 16:2-3), or can become filled with rain clouds and wind (Luke 12:54,56).

Alfred Persson quoted Bates in post 106:

However, Christ died once for all (Romans 6:10, 1 Peter 3:18) on the earth. He is not going to be crucified and resurrected again on other planets (Hebrews 9:26).

Romans 6:10, 1 Peter 3:18, and Hebrews 9:26 can refer to Christ dying once on the earth for the sin on the earth. They don't forbid Christ from dying once on any other inhabited planets in the universe for any sin on those other planets.

Alfred Persson quoted Bates in post 106:

This is confirmed by the fact that the redeemed (earthly) church is known as Christ’s bride (Ephesians 5:22–33; Revelation 19:7–9) in a marriage that will last for eternity.3 Christ is not going to be a polygamist with many other brides from other planets.

Just as each individual Christian on the earth is a bride of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2) at the same time that the church as a whole on the earth is a singular bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:31-32), so any saved people on other planets could be included within Christ's singular bride.

Alfred Persson quoted Bates in post 106:

The Bible makes no provision for God to redeem any other species, any more than to redeem fallen angels (Hebrews 2:16).

Hebrews 2:16-17 can simply mean that Jesus didn't take on the nature of angels in order to save humans on the earth. It doesn't forbid Jesus from taking on the nature of aliens on other planets in order to save those aliens.

Alfred Persson said in post 106:

And then creationist argument that intelligent design point to God the intelligent Designer, will be subverted by these "aliens" who will claim they "seeded" and "shepherded" human evolution.

The existence of aliens doesn't require that they, instead of God, created humans on this planet. For God himself could have directly created both humans on this planet and aliens on other planets (cf. John 1:3). Also, if someone were to claim that aliens created Adam (the forbear of all existing humans on this planet) instead of YHWH God, that claim would be false, for it would contradict the Bible's teaching that YHWH God himself created Adam (Genesis 2:7).

Some people feel that the Antichrist's future, one-world religion will teach that Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) is an alien who created humans on this planet. But while the Antichrist's future one-world religion will indeed be Luciferian (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), it will at the same time also be Gnostic, denying that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7) and utterly reviling YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:31). And it wouldn't make sense for this religion to say that Lucifer is an alien who created humans on this planet. For the reason that Gnosticism reviles YHWH is because he is the Creator of all human fleshly bodies. So it would be better for believers not to worry too much about an "alien deception", and start arming themselves against the Gnostic deception, which happened to have also been one of the main enemies of the early church.

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement that says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is pure spirit can be good. Gnosticism teaches that all humans used to be pure spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in a purely-spiritual heaven called the "Pleroma", until by some mishap humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the God of Biblical Christians, and the Creator of the material universe and of all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering in fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism became the main enemy of the early church, just as it will become the main enemy of the church during the future tribulation. For the Antichrist will be a Gnostic. He will teach the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). And the Antichrist, like the Gnostics, will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will instead bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

Gnosticism has some core teachings in common with the major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism:

1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely, and enter a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Genesis 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)

The Bible contradicts each of the 4 points above:

1. The material realm is real, and was created very good (Genesis 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (John 1:1,14, Luke 24:39) and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). So there is nothing evil about matter in itself.

2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philippians 3:11) in an immortal human body of flesh and bones, like the immortal human body of flesh and bones that Jesus Christ obtained at his resurrection (Luke 24:39, Philippians 3:21; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54, Romans 8:23-25), and in which he will remain forever as our fully-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and when he returns he will show the scars of the Crucifixion on his body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened/illuminated (Ephesians 1:18, Hebrews 10:32) by Jesus Christ (John 14:6-7, John 8:32, John 3:36) will remain in the material realm (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), ultimately living on a new earth with God (Revelation 21:1-4).

4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

Alfred Persson said in post 106:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

The Antichrist will have a False Prophet who will work amazing miracles by which people will be deceived (Revelation 13:12-14, Revelation 19:20, cf. Matthew 24:24). And God will send strong delusion on unrepentant people so that they will believe "the" lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; in the original Greek there is a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie that has been around since the first century AD (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), and which in the future will deceive the world into worshipping both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9), as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). The antichrist lie denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), and denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7), which denial is one of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

 

[tranquil]

In Mormonism, they believe that God lives on a planet called Kolob. Kolob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Check out the fake "Egyptian" heiroglyphs. Joseph Smith was an "ancient alien astronaut theorist" before Von Daniken was even born. lol

So, to them, God as an ET is entirely plausible (a Satanic lie to deny a spiritual dimension to life). If there was a cataclysm in the US (and there most definitely will be soon enough), Mormons would survive due to their pro-survivalist mentality. Prophetically, they are supposed to save the US "when the constitution was hanging by a thread". So, Mitt Romney seems to be the most likely individual that Satan "gives authority to continue for 42 months" (dusk 1-20-17 through eve 7-3-20). But... Prince William is the "beast from the sea". They themselves will tell you that: he flies a "Sea King" helicopter, BBC News - Prince William lands helicopter on water during Canadian visit
has a boat named "Hereford endeavor" Video: Prince William and Kate Middleton launch lifeboat Hereford Endeavour - Telegraph (Hereford is a "red heifer" Hereford - definition of Hereford by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. ) So, he is sacrificed for the 3rd Temple. Here, someone whose gematria is 1666 is telling people to worship an image of William: Yahoo!

It seems that in the post Catholic world it will be some configuration of these people.

But back to Mormonism. They think that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers.
It seems to be very similar to the "Superman / Batman" dynamic. Superman is Lucifer and Batman would be "Jesus"/ 2 horned false prophet. Superman = Death, Batman = Hades, false prophet beast from the earth. One loves light, the other hates light (like a vampire (bat) - vampires = "elves" = "Vulcans".

This "bat" motif is a Satanic perversion of Isaiah 2:20

In that day mankind will cast away their idols of silver and their idols of gold, which they made for themselves to worship, to the moles and to the bats,

The "bats and moles" refer to "hades"/ the "underworld" in charge of 666.

Hmmm, in this scenario, Batman = vampire "Satan" saying to worship Lucifer. Strange.

 

[Interplanner]

B2,
see #102. I know the "why" questions are terrifying, but give it a try. Stop hiding in pages and pages of "what"-writings.

 

[Jipsah]

Your argument from silence conflicts with Scripture. Gary Bates answers the question well, so I'll just quote him:

It is often asked, ‘Just because the Bible teaches about God creating intelligent life only on Earth, why couldn’t He have done so elsewhere?’

Well, my first reaction to this contention is that any argument that God cannot do something is inherently ridiculous, and ridiculously presumptuous. "God can't do X, Y, and Z!" Really? Really?

the biblical objection to ET is not merely an argument from silence.

It's not Biblical, either. It's pure presumption.

we believe that sentient,intelligent, moral-decision-capable beings is, because it would undermine the authority of Scripture.

Which is to say that it would undermine your doctrinal presuppositions. Important to you, maybe, but there's no reason why the rest of us should care.

the big picture of the Bible/gospel message allows us to conclude clearly that the reason the Bible doesn’t mention extraterrestrials (ETs) is that there aren’t any.

And allows those of us who aren't burdened with the limits of your doctrine conclude that you're trying to elevate your notions to the level of Scripture. Sorry, no worky. Scripture didn't mention the existence of people in other continents, either, but they were still there, weren't they? That despite the idea held by some in far-off times that the world far away was populated by "devils transmarine". Turns out that the people on those other continents were just people after all, sinners like everyone else, in need of salvation like everyone else.

Surely, if the earth were to be favoured with a visitation by real extraterrestrials from a galaxy far, far away, then one would reasonably expect that the Bible, and God in His sovereignty and foreknowledge, to mention such a momentous occasion

Why? The Bible doesn't really deal with anyone anywhere but near the Mediterranean, does it? But there were a lot of other people out there, weren't there?

, because it would clearly redefine man's place in the universe.

How so?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Well, my first reaction to this contention is that any argument that God cannot do something is inherently ridiculous, and ridiculously presumptuous. "God can't do X, Y, and Z!" Really? Really?

It's not Biblical, either. It's pure presumption.

Which is to say that it would undermine your doctrinal presuppositions. Important to you, maybe, but there's no reason why the rest of us should care.

And allows those of us who aren't burdened with the limits of your doctrine conclude that you're trying to elevate your notions to the level of Scripture. Sorry, no worky. Scripture didn't mention the existence of people in other continents, either, but they were still there, weren't they? That despite the idea held by some in far-off times that the world far away was populated by "devils transmarine". Turns out that the people on those other continents were just people after all, sinners like everyone else, in need of salvation like everyone else.

Why? The Bible doesn't really deal with anyone anywhere but near the Mediterranean, does it? But there were a lot of other people out there, weren't there?

How so?

Gary Bates ably demonstrated the idea of ufo aliens is unscriptural, but because I quoted him---you NOW argue ufo aliens DO exist?

But you spent so many posts claiming they don't!

I'm still waiting for your proof Satan didn't use telepathy to snatch the gospel from the hearts of those hearing by the wayside:

Originally Posted by Alfred Persson

some believe these were in telepathic contact with human observers.
​

Explain precisely how the Devil can know what words are in a person's heart and then take them away, if telepathy isn't being used:

12 "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Luk 8:12 NKJ)

 

[Jipsah]

Gary Bates ably demonstrated the idea of ufo aliens is unscriptural

Far from it. The idea of extra-terrestrial aliens is no more far-fetched than the idea of humans on other continents was in Biblical times. The Bible says nothing about either.

, but because I quoted him---you NOW argue ufo aliens DO exist?

Nope. There's no evidence one way or another, so declaring that aliens cannot exist is equally as baseless as declaring that they do exist. Either is a statement of faith, but unfortunately not a faith based on anything in the Bible.

My personal opinion is that there are no ET aliens, since if there are they should be producing noise in the electro-magnetic spectrum, and listen as we may, we've heard no such noise. But claiming that the Bible supports either position is simply untrue.

I'm still waiting for your proof Satan didn't use telepathy to snatch the gospel from the hearts of those hearing by the wayside:

I'll offer it as soon as I receive your proof that I am not the descendent of Nicholas II and the legitimate Czar of All the Russias. And while you're doing that, I'd also like to see your proof that Satan has telepathic powers of any kind, and/or the ability to "snatch the gospel from the hearts" by telepathic means. (Or that there's such a thing as telepathy at all, for that matter.) I don't see that in Scripture anywhere. Good grief, you seem to be elevating superstition to a position to that of Scripture!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Far from it. The idea of extra-terrestrial aliens is no more far-fetched than the idea of humans on other continents was in Biblical times. The Bible says nothing about either.

Nope. There's no evidence one way or another, so declaring that aliens cannot exist is equally as baseless as declaring that they do exist. Either is a statement of faith, but unfortunately not a faith based on anything in the Bible.

My personal opinion is that there are no ET aliens, since if there are they should be producing noise in the electro-magnetic spectrum, and listen as we may, we've heard no such noise. But claiming that the Bible supports either position is simply untrue.

I'll offer it as soon as I receive your proof that I am not the descendent of Nicholas II and the legitimate Czar of All the Russias. And while you're doing that, I'd also like to see your proof that Satan has telepathic powers of any kind, and/or the ability to "snatch the gospel from the hearts" by telepathic means. (Or that there's such a thing as telepathy at all, for that matter.) I don't see that in Scripture anywhere. Good grief, you seem to be elevating superstition to a position to that of Scripture!

Obviously Satan cannot snatch words from people's hearts, unless he telepathically knows what they are thinking.

Also your disregard for Bate's exposition of relevant Scripture ufo aliens don't exist, is hardly surprising.

The first thing habitual mocking shrinks, is the brain.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The Holy Spirit's gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10), which operate in believers who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46), won't cease operating until Jesus' 2nd coming. For 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 means that just as only when children become adults do they put away childish things, so only when believers become perfect when they see Jesus face to face at his 2nd coming (1 John 3:2) will they no longer need the Spiritual gifts of prophecy, tongues, and the word of knowledge (1 Corinthians 12:8,10). ...

Your first is contradicted by the writer of Hebrews:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
(Heb 6:4-8 NKJ)

The Holy Spirit will not do signs and wonders through a person who crucifies Christ afresh, who has been rejected because he bears thorn and briars and is near to eternal damnation.

He is a Person, not an "it" and doesn't dwell in such people:

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3 NKJ)

This is true only while the one "speaking" is the spirit, not the person---Humans have free will and can lie about anything, anytime they want, therefore Paul's words don't apply when the person is speaking their own word and not "speaking by the spirit".

Christ says WE CAN KNOW who a miracle worker is, by their fruits. AS knowing a miracle worker requires we know what kind of spirit is inspiring them, we can OBJECTIVELY KNOW BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT if its the Holy Spirit doing the miracles, or an antichrist spirit ("For they are spirits of demons, performing signs (Rev 16:14 NKJ)

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
(Mat 7:15-20 NKJ)

If the Holy Spirit could be forced to do signs and wonders by a false prophet, then we could NOT know them by their fruits.


18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. (1Jo 2:18-21 NKJ)

No lie is of God the Holy Spirit.

John the apostle confirms those who don't obey Bible truth are inspired by the spirit of error, not the Spirit of truth:

6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:6 NKJ)


Christ expressly denies those who are lawless, do things by His Holy Spirit. Those who practice lawlessness NEVER knew Christ and therefore NEVER did any miracles by Christ's Holy Spirit...He never knew them:

21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(Mat 7:21-23 NKJ)

Charismaniacs deny this teaching because even they know how wicked their leaders OFTEN become, yet they want to continue to believe their false teaching about the sign gifts. That's because they don't love the truth, they love their own experiences over God's truth, EXPERIENTIALISM over the objective truth in God's Holy Word the Bible---therefore they will believe the strong delusion of the lie.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

As for your second, 1 Cor 13:8ff does not say the gifts will continue untill Christ comes, it says the MEROS (that which is in part) or realm of the partial (our Matrix or reality) will continue till the TELEIOS (the complete, the Kingdom of God) comes.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect (TELEIOS) has come, then that which is in part(MEROS) will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(1Co 13:8-13 NKJ)

Paul likens our present MEROS reality as that of childhood, which "will vanish away" when manhood (the TELEIOS) arrives.

But there are many "childish things" that come and go during childhood, before manhood arrives. For example, strollers, suckers, diapers etc, pass away long before actual manhood.

Therefore the text does not require the gifts remain till Christ comes, if that is what Paul wanted to teach, he would have said THAT plainly. Rather, he doesn't know when Christ will come, he does know that when the kingdom of God (the complete revelation of God comes), then the kingdom of man (having partial revelation of God) will be done away, like childhood vanishes when manhood arrives.

That the gifts ceased about the time of the destruction of the temple during the time the NT was being written, is the clear testimony of Scripture:

21 In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
(1Co 14:21-22 NKJ)

So tongues and other "sign gifts" were a sign to JEWS that Jesus is now the way the truth and the life. God was speaking to the JEWS through the Gentiles, that the Law or Old Covenant was replaced by Jesus, the New Covenant.

Therefore the destruction of the Temple was the FINAL irrefutable sign because it was then IMPOSSIBLE to follow Moasic law WITHOUT IT, also the genealogical records were then destroyed. AFTER that, no one could legitimately be a PRIEST or claim to be the Messiah.

Hence about that time the sign gifts are spoken of in the past tense:

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:3-4 KJV)

We see the "timeline of cessation" quite clearly in this survey of the NT data. That "miracle workers" were never a majority of believers in the church is reflected by the overwhelming mass of scripture which treats "non charismatic issues":

A.D.30 According to Scripture only 3.85% (120/(3000+120)) percent of believers received the special gifts of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost-Acts 1:15, 2:1ff; 41-47.

A.D.49 Paul lists fruits of the Spirit rather than special gifts-Galatians 5:2-23.

A.D.51 Timothy brings Paul news about faith and love, not charismata-1 Thessalonians 3:6.

A.D.51 Paul says love is evidence of God's choosing, not special gifts-2 Thessalonians 1:3-5.

A.D.51 "May the Lord direct your hearts into God's love and Christ's perseverance."-2 Thessalonians 3:5 NIV

A.D.53 The unusual is recorded: Twelve followers of John the Baptist receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues and prophesy-Acts 19:1-7.

A.D.55 Paul appeals to the Corinthians desire to excel in every sign of spirituality to add to their zeal generosity 2 Corinthians 8:7.

A.D.55 New birth confirms one is in Christ, not revelatory gifts-2 Corinthians 5:17.

A.D.55 Paul exhorts unto righteousness and holiness, not revelatory gifts-2 Corinthians 7:1.

A.D.56, Only prophecy is mentioned in a way that implies it is rare and the other gifts surprisingly are not named at all-Romans 12:4-13.

A.D.60 The absence here of revelatory gifts in this context is very conspicuous, it should be here in a number of places. The text lists prophets with apostles, signifying they are few in number-Ephesians 4:2-5:21.

A.D.60 This context would have been perfect to mention the revelatory gifts, instead he refers to false charismata Colossians 2:9-18.

A.D.60 Paul neither hears about revelatory gifts nor does he pray for Philemon to receive them-Philemon 1:4-7.

A.D.62 Renewing of the Holy Ghost connected to holy lifestyle and God's grace, not gifts-Titus 3:1-8.

A.D.62 Revelatory gifts not part of the requirements for the office of overseer or deacon-1 Timothy 3:2-13.

A.D.62 Paul had to exhort Timothy to use his gift (ministry? cp. 2 Tim. 1:6f) and the example he is to set is for holy living, not gift seeking-1 Timothy 4:12-16.

[FONT=&quot]A.D. 62 Neither Paul or others can heal Timothy: Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1Ti 5:23 KJV)[/FONT]

A.D.67 The special gifts are referred to in the past tense-Hebrews 2:3-4.

A.D.67 Spur one another unto love and good deeds, not tongues-Hebrews 10:24-25.

A.D.67 Peter does not mention these gifts amongst those who share the divine nature and this is in contrast to the false prophets in next chapter-2 Peter 1:4-9.

A.D.90 God's love shown not by gifts but by Christ ransom sacrifice-1 John 4:9-10.

A.D.90 Evidence of having the Spirit is love and true doctrine-1 John 4:12-17.

"Silence" can be considered tantamount to positive proof when its impossible to explain the silence otherwise. For example, the "silence of a body breathing" is considered proof the body is dead.

In like manner, as Charismatics cannot be silent about their "gifts" the silence about them in most of the New Testament is proof these were never manifested among the majority of believers.

For example, First Corinthian chapters 1-11 are devoted to non charismatic issues, only 1 Cor 12-14 were about them. That tongues speaking was only by a minority is required because only a majority can forbid a practice, therefore the majority of believers in Corinth did not speak in tongues:

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. (1Co 14:39 KJV)

Carefully take note of what happened on the Day of Pentecost, the time of the maximum manifestation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. While all 3120 believers received the Holy Spirit, ONLY the 120 who were in the upper room spoke in Tongues (actual languages praising God), and only the Apostles did signs and wonders confirming this was of God:

[FONT=&quot]38[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (Act 2:38-47 NKJ)[/FONT]


That means "the outward physical evidence" the 3,000 showed they received the Holy Spirit, was their obedience to the Word of God (Acts 2:42 cp John 8:47; 1 John 4:6; 2 Thess 2:13-15; 2 Tim 2:15) , and in the love they showed to each other (Acts 2:44-45 cp John 13:35; 1 John 3:14). These filled with the Holy Spirit of God ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God, by their obedience to apostolic doctrine found today only in the Bible, and their love for one another, not miracle working. Their conversion was the miracle.

Therefore, while I am a cessationist and don't claim to be a prophet, such have ceased to be among us till the LORD's two anointed come, I do have a actual "word of the LORD" for all who sadden and dismay God's people saying "if you don't speak in tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit":'

Ezek 13:22 Because you disheartened the righteous with your lies, when I had brought them no grief, and because you encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their lives,

Ezek 13:23 therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will save my people from your hands. And then you will know that I am the LORD.'"


Isa 56:3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree."

Isa 56:4 For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant--

Isa 56:5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off.

He that is spiritual will agree, THAT was an actual word of the LORD!

 

[Jipsah]

The first thing habitual mocking shrinks, is the brain.

Any proof to offer on that point? Or must we accept is as true because the Bible doesn't say it isn't?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Any proof to offer on that point? Or must we accept is as true because the Bible doesn't say it isn't?

Its accepted fact a brain not exercised atrophies.

Google it.

Scripture does say this about fools:

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
(Pro 26:4-5 KJV)

You decide if that is relevant to a habitual mocker:

13 He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him. (Pro 18:13 NAS)

Knee-jerk mocking, before one even knows the proofs supporting what is being mocked, or why they might be unsound---is called folly and shame....

Can we consider it Foolish, also?

An example, Jesus says:

12 "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Luk 8:12 NKJ)

How could the Devil know what a person is thinking, if telepathy isn't being used?

Would it be foolish to mock Jesus Christ's teaching the Devil knows what people are thinking?

Might such knee-jerk mocking indicate an atrophied brain is in play?

A brain that does not consider the reasons why a statement might be sound?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Romans 11:29 says "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable"
misusing and abusing Spiritual gifts was seen in the bible, even Simon the sorcerer wanted to buy such gifts for the purpose of profit
It is these we witness in Mathew 7:21

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (Rom 11:29 NKJ)

Your interpretation presupposes modern day gifts are "of God" and hence you fail to understand Christ's point.

These "prophesied...cast out demons...done many wonders" in what they thought was Christ's name, but HE never knew them.

20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(Mat 7:20-23 NKJ)

There is another Jesus, a different spirit:

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it! (2Co 11:4 NKJ)

Clearly the antichrists in Matthew 7:20-23 were doing miracles in the name of this other Jesus, by a different spirit than Christ's Holy Spirit, for HE NEVER KNEW THEM.


Paul warned the Corinthians "don't be fooled by the different spirit which once carried you away against reason into idolatry" when he says:

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:2-3 NKJ)

Note carefully Paul gives an OBJECTIVE TEST (=know them by their fruits) by which we can discern if the spirit speaking through a prophet is the Holy Spirit, or an antichrist spirit. Its impossible for the Holy Spirit to say "Jesus is accursed," and it is impossible for an antichrist spirit to say "Jesus is LORD."

Of course, when not under direct control of the Spirit, a man can lie and say anything he wants. So the "test" only applies while the prophet is "speaking by the spirit".

***So experience alone is not enough to discern which spirit is inspiring a prophet, the only thing we can do is what Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits."

Those who practice lawlessness are NOT inspired by Christ's Holy Spirit, He NEVER knew them.

They never received the gifts and calling of God that are irrevocable, they received another Jesus, a different spirit other than what the apostles preached.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:1-6 NKJ)

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(Rev 16:13-14 NKJ)


Note ***

The reason why the experience of the Holy Spirit, and that of the antichrist spirit, can SEEM to be very similar, is because of the way our bodies react hormonally (chemically) to stimuli.

The human body can produce the same chemicals underlying the feeling of peace, joy regardless the source of the stimulation, whether its telepathically implanted by the spirit of antichrist, a "voice thought projection" or "vision like image" or via the conscience by the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit doesn't lead though the flesh, body or brain:

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: (Rom 7:18 KJV)

He leads through the conscience, its a perception like "knowing" we are children of God.

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (Rom 8:16 NKJ)

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know (οἴδατε 1492) all things. (1Jo 2:20 KJV)


Therefore God's leading is NOT a telepathic voice thought impression or spurious dream or vision, or feeling like electricity or burning heat because He is NOT in the flesh, body or brain.


God dwells with our spirit:

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
(Rom 8:13-16 NKJ)

As the leading of the Holy Spirit is through our spirit it necessarily is "perception" and not a physical experience.

Paul indirectly describes how precisely the Holy Spirit bears witness when He says:

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, (Rom 9:1 NKJ)

God the Holy Spirit bore Paul witness through his conscience.


While it is true God spoke to the apostles directly, verbally, and His holy prophets while the Bible was still being written, THAT experience was not the normal Christian experience on the day of Pentecost:

2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." (Act 13:2 NKJ)

The 3000 saved that day, who received the Holy Spirit when they believed, gave the outward physical evidence of His indwelling, by their PRACTICING LAWFULNESS, that is, they listened to the apostles, whose teaching today found only in the Bible:

42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
(Act 2:42-47 NKJ)

6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:6 NKJ)


Antichrists are carried away into idolatry by voice thought impressions; Christians are led by the Holy Spirit by their Bible trained Conscience as they diligently study God's Word of Truth, the Bible. They love the truth found in God's Holy Word, they are NOT lawless like antichrists are, they do what is written for them to do.

Notice the contrast between those EXPERIENTIALLY LED by the mystery of lawlessness and so practice lawlessness against God's truth in the Bible, and real Christians sanctified by God's Holy Spirit:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
(2Th 2:9-15 NKJ)

Those who prefer modern day gifts, even though they are not the same as seen in the Bible, do not love the truth and therefore will perish.

 

[Douggg]

Far from it. The idea of extra-terrestrial aliens is no more far-fetched than the idea of humans on other continents was in Biblical times. The Bible says nothing about either.

The people on the other continents got there because God confused the language at the tower of Babel, and they spread out to the rest of the world.

They are all humans.

There are no extra-terrestrial aliens other than Satan's angels. In Revelation 6, the second heaven, that of the cosmos will be shaken and parted - which before that happens is the principality of Satan and his angels.

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

They are going to be cast down to earth because their principality of the second heaven is going to be removed. So there are no alien civilizations somewhere out there in the Star-trek universe.