What is the Scriptural Basis for Cessationism?

[Major1]

The dictionary definition is not the same as the Biblical. In the Gospel some works are called miracles and others are healings. As from the Gospel, speaking in new tongues is not a miracle.

Impartations are evidence based, so people can see, or "hear, and be healed", or set free from addiction. If you do not believe Jesus can save you from or set you free from sin, then you are on your own, or with Pelagius. Luke 6:18

Paul laid hands on Timothy and he was empowered. Moses laid hands on the judges and shared his spiritual power. The prophets were anointed with sacred oil. That is the way of God the way the Gospel works. You cannot give away what you do not have. A beginner can ask for God to heal a fellow without an impartation by asking God with faith for the healing. In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith.

You said...…….
"In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith. "

I do not know of any Scriptures that say angels are able to heal.

Can you post the Scriptures you used?

 

[Major1]

When Christ spoke, his words in the air and on paper were a thing, Christ a person. It will be like this when Christ returns. The whole world will be under his power and light.

Luk 17:23 and they shall say to you, Lo, here; or lo, there; ye may not go away, nor follow;
Luk 17:24 for as the lightning that is lightening out of the one part under heaven, to the other part under heaven doth shine, so shall be also the Son of Man in his day; YLT

Some consider the Bible to be God the word. Others call living water "him".

So the original meaning as is plain from the context of 1 Corinthians 13 is the gifts will cease when something better comes, the perfect the Christ. And since there is word striving over teleios, discording Paul in his letter to Timothy, I explain that the greatest light, will be at His return. The light of prophecy will no longer be needed. Even in Medieval Germany when they had print and a lot of educated people, they still needed and would have done better with the range of gifts including prophecy.

You are correct but IMO you have misapplied your thinking to match denomination teaching.

YES, when Christ spoke His words were heard and written down and became a THING ----THE BIBLE.

Christ is a Person, the 2nd PERSON of the Trinity and He can not be manipulated into being a THING. It just is not possible my dear friend.

It was Jesus who gave the words of the Scriptures to the prophets and Moses and to the Apostles.

Consider carefully the actual Scriptures...………..

Luke 24:27...……
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

Colossians 1:16 .....
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".

The Creator of all things is Jesus but because He created all things, that does not then mean HE IS A THING!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I am not sure that you understand Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura in no way rejects the Holy Spirit and it certainly can not be self contradictory.

The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.


2 Tim. 3:16...……..
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”.

Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible.

As a result Martin Luther said in his 99 Thesis...……
“Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”

Sola Scriptura is a method of understanding the Scriptures as the authority of God and NOT the RCC method of Traditions.

Martin Luther began to come out from the doctrines of demons church practices. But was still too austere. The ability of Sola Scriptura is limited.
How does Sola Scriptura treat word striving?
1Ti 6:4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and word-striving, out of which doth come envy, strife, evil-speakings, evil-surmisings, YLT

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You said...…….
"In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith. "

I do not know of any Scriptures that say angels are able to heal.

Can you post the Scriptures you used?

When God heals or blesses, it is by the hand of God or angels, I suppose angels are the hand of God, I do not know. Raphael means God heals.

In the presence of the angel and the presence of God in the angel, Moses arm became leprous and was healed again.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Technically Of course, you are correct. However, Paul did encounter the Lord Jesus on the Damascus Road after Christ’s resurrection. While Jesus’ appearance to Paul may have been different in character from Christ’s pre-ascension appearances, this encounter with Paul was no merely subjective vision, as both Jesus’ voice (Acts 9:2) and the bright light
of His presence (Acts 22:9) were perceived by Paul’s traveling companions.

A lot of people have visions of Christ, the man in white, or near death experiences with Christ in them.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The laying on of hands by the Jews was a picture of ATONEMENT and was an Old Test. ritual.

When the Jew brought a sacrifice to the temple, he laid his hands on the animal signifying his identification with it. The animal was taking his place on the alter.

That is exactly what Jesus did on the cross from us.

No, God is present, with Moses, and is in him, and Moses transferred the Spirit to the judges, no mere ritual. The same with Paul and Timothy.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You said...………
"So they could establish something that ideally would continue".

That my dear friend is adding to the Scriptures. The Scriptures DO NOT say that but instead it is what YOU want them to say so as to validate those who want to speak in tongues and perform miracles.

I personally do not accept that theology, but that is just me.


You said...………

"More and more evangelists and apostles going to India, Mongolia, Holland, Russia, Indonesia, Uganda...".

Agreed. I have been on several missionary trips and Uganda Africa is one of them. I have a good friend, Pastor Casimbo who has a teaching school there for children.

I also have a good friend in South Vietnam who has a school for Pastors.

Neither of them have included a curriculum of "Tongues" but instead teach the known langue of the country they live in.​

The idea is, God's passion and purpose is the salvation of souls. He did not want the church to remain stymied, but to continue and expand for souls to have Christ in their hearts. From Israel to Ireland to New Zealand, to Vladivostok, and Chile... to quickly bring his return. But all European and Indian and middle eastern Christendom worked at a snail's pace. So now Pentecostals have made the non western world, more Christian than the the USA and Canada...

The ideal is continuation of the examples and powers of the 12 and the 70.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

If you change the meanings of scripture and people do not come to Christ and receive their salvation, you have omitted parts of scripture and will have blood on your hands. Power ministry wins the lost, especially outside the west.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

There is word stiving over the meaning of "perfect is come", from 1 Corinthians 13, regarding the Greek word "teleios".

It cannot be a book. It cannot be that everyone had one of the books and could read it. What should be included in the Bible is a matter of question. The Bible under scrutiny by Lutheran scholars for the sake of Muslim questions, has errors. Just a few. And there were three letters written to the Corinthians, and surely many oral preachings with important knowledge in them, that are not in the letters and are lost in time.

So you like the idea that from Christ via the apostles came something perfect. Why not agree something perfect will come from Christ when he returns?

If Paul in this chapter refers to his own perception of Christ light and form as in a mirror dimly, then like teacher to student, there is at best us seeing in a mirror dimly. Unless we see the Christ himself, which happens when we die, or Christ returns. "Then I will fully know as I myself am known." Paul.

 

[tdidymas]

The dictionary definition is not the same as the Biblical. In the Gospel some works are called miracles and others are healings. As from the Gospel, speaking in new tongues is not a miracle.

Impartations are evidence based, so people can see, or "hear, and be healed", or set free from addiction. If you do not believe Jesus can save you from or set you free from sin, then you are on your own, or with Pelagius. Luke 6:18

Paul laid hands on Timothy and he was empowered. Moses laid hands on the judges and shared his spiritual power. The prophets were anointed with sacred oil. That is the way of God the way the Gospel works. You cannot give away what you do not have. A beginner can ask for God to heal a fellow without an impartation by asking God with faith for the healing. In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith.

This is where our paths diverge. Biblical tongues was miraculous, as I explained before. A person can be set free from addiction in a miraculous way - instantaneous and complete, or they can be set free in a natural way - through education, confession, rehab, drugs, etc. which is not miraculous, but is by divine Providence. The verse you quote that people were delivered from evil spirits was a miraculous event. People actually did have evil spirits, and it wasn't "addictions." Addictions are not evil spirits. Addictions are "concupiscence" or "inordinate affections" or "lusts" or "gluttony," etc., IOW sin. I don't believe in the "devil made me do it" idea.
TD

 

[YeshuaFan]

I agree with you on this, and I do believe that miracles happen today, although not near as prolific as it was in the days of the early church (the 1st Century). But the writer of Hebrews excludes himself in the working of signs and wonders which he mentioned in Heb. 2:4, and he does not identify himself as one of the apostles.

The issue is not whether or not miracles happen today. The issue is about whether or not any Christian today HAS one of those gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1 Cor. 12. One workaround for the lack of evidence is the theory going around that those gifts were temporary bestowments given to individuals at a particular meeting. IOW, the gift was given only for the purpose of that meeting, and after that meeting those individuals no longer had that gift. However, I can't see this as a valid theory, the way that I read the scripture. If this was the case, Paul would not have said "I speak in tongues more than you all." Paul HAD the gift of tongues, and he used it at his own discretion, of course according to God's will.

In my mind, the crux of the issue surrounds modern day Pentecostalism, and whether or not the "tongues" of today is the same kind of "tongues" mentioned in 1 Cor. The question at hand is, does modern day Pentecostalism actually practice the authentic gifts of the Spirit, or is the movement merely playing with religious activity made to look like it? Does the movement have a miraculous spiritual source, or is it a fleshly source?

I do not want an answer to these questions, as they are rhetorical by nature. I am merely stating what I believe to be the core of the issue, and the essence of the debate on cessationism. It does not mean that a cessationist believes that Pentecostalism is evil or of the devil. Neither does it mean that a Pentecostal who exhibits good fruit in their life authenticates the movement's claim.
TD

The author of Hebrews seems to bne confirming though that the Apostles were used to confirm that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and that the Gospel saves both jews and Gentiles, and those sign gifts had waned and ceased at his time, after accomplished their assigned task!
IF there are any tongues spoken today, must be a real human language unlearned by speaker, and not just repeating "see my tie" really fast!

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is where our paths diverge. Biblical tongues was miraculous, as I explained before. A person can be set free from addiction in a miraculous way - instantaneous and complete, or they can be set free in a natural way - through education, confession, rehab, drugs, etc. which is not miraculous, but is by divine Providence. The verse you quote that people were delivered from evil spirits was a miraculous event. People actually did have evil spirits, and it wasn't "addictions." Addictions are not evil spirits. Addictions are "concupiscence" or "inordinate affections" or "lusts" or "gluttony," etc., IOW sin. I don't believe in the "devil made me do it" idea.
TD

Bible makes it clear that Jesus delivered people from demons possession and from natural sicknesses, which addictions would fall under...

 

[YeshuaFan]

It sure sounds like thats what you are saying.

We will still have that old sin nature with us though until resurrection day, and still will have the sin tendencies built into corrupt flesh and mind to deal with!
It really seems that those holding to the "full gospel/wof" want to have all of the promised blessings right here and now, but MOST of that is reserved for us in heaven and once we have been glorified!

 

[YeshuaFan]

So they could establish something that ideally would continue, not only until Christ returns but to make it possible, for Jesus said, only after all have heard the Gospel across the world, that he will return and end the suffering. More and more evangelists and apostles going to India, Mongolia, Holland, Russia, Indonesia, Uganda...


They include Paul who never met Jesus as Peter did. People in NDEs today meet Jesus and come back to life and live as Christians. Paul survived the snake bit in Acts on the island of Malta.


It is only common sense that the church must stay the same in offices in order to "some plant, some water"... and grow that all the world hears and hopefully turns, and Christ then returns. Our great aim and goal. If you say "some" were made apostles, as from 1 Corinthians, you change the plain meaning of that verse, to mean 11 people. Nonsense.


Cessationists omit scriptures, and change meanings to suit an easier spirituality.

Apostles for today must meet the required qualifications of seeing the risen jesus, been commissioned by Him, to have their sign gifts operating, and record down further revelations from God, so none qualified!

 

[tdidymas]

The author of Hebrews seems to bne confirming though that the Apostles were used to confirm that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and that the Gospel saves both jews and Gentiles, and those sign gifts had waned and ceased at his time, after accomplished their assigned task!
IF there are any tongues spoken today, must be a real human language unlearned by speaker, and not just repeating "see my tie" really fast!

I completely agree.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

Bible makes it clear that Jesus delivered people from demons possession and from natural sicknesses, which addictions would fall under...

I agree.
TD

 

[YeshuaFan]

You said...…….
"In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith. "

I do not know of any Scriptures that say angels are able to heal.

Can you post the Scriptures you used?

ONLY God can heal!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You are correct but IMO you have misapplied your thinking to match denomination teaching.

YES, when Christ spoke His words were heard and written down and became a THING ----THE BIBLE.

Christ is a Person, the 2nd PERSON of the Trinity and He can not be manipulated into being a THING. It just is not possible my dear friend.

It was Jesus who gave the words of the Scriptures to the prophets and Moses and to the Apostles.

Consider carefully the actual Scriptures...………..

Luke 24:27...……
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

Colossians 1:16 .....
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".

The Creator of all things is Jesus but because He created all things, that does not then mean HE IS A THING!

Jesus created all things that were evr created, and he is God, eternal!

 

[YeshuaFan]

A lot of people have visions of Christ, the man in white, or near death experiences with Christ in them.

None of them can be confirmed though as actual encounters with the same Jesus that Paul saw!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

ONLY God can heal!

How does God heal in your thoughts? By a word from his throne, or a touch of his Spirit...?