What is the Scriptural Basis for Cessationism?

[Neo4257]

One thing I don't understand about cessationism. Throughout the Book of John, Jesus constantly points to the miracles and good works performed as an indication that He was from The Father, because generally speaking the religious leaders didn't accept the words He spoke concerning His identity. The same thing happened in Acts with the early church. If Jesus used the Gifts of the Spirit to reach the lost and He is our model, even saying we would do greater works than Him, what is the scriptural basis for the gifts ceasing after the Scripture was complete? Does the completion of Scripture somehow belittle the need for healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out demons? Why would we divorce ourselves from the spiritual gifts if they were and are so effective in reaching the lost? Furthermore, if even John said the entire record of Jesus couldn't be contained in the word, why do we make such an emphasis on the word instead of Jesus who is the Word incarnate?

 

[Anto9us]

I think the Cessationists believe that "the perfect" has come.

1Co 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

But since I am not a Cessationist, then anything I say about it will of course be seen as "misrepresenting" Cessationism.

 

[St_Worm2]

Here is part of it:

1 Corinthians 13
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.​

Yours and His,
David

 

[tdidymas]

One thing I don't understand about cessationism. Throughout the Book of John, Jesus constantly points to the miracles and good works performed as an indication that He was from The Father, because generally speaking the religious leaders didn't accept the words He spoke concerning His identity. The same thing happened in Acts with the early church. If Jesus used the Gifts of the Spirit to reach the lost and He is our model, even saying we would do greater works than Him, what is the scriptural basis for the gifts ceasing after the Scripture was complete? Does the completion of Scripture somehow belittle the need for healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out demons? Why would we divorce ourselves from the spiritual gifts if they were and are so effective in reaching the lost? Furthermore, if even John said the entire record of Jesus couldn't be contained in the word, why do we make such an emphasis on the word instead of Jesus who is the Word incarnate?

The scriptural basis is Heb. 2:4: "God also testifying with them (first Christians), both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will." So the writer of Hebrews excludes himself from those who performed signs, wonders, and miracles by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't mean that God doesn't do miracles today, though. It simply means that no one individual has an inherent gift of doing such as is described in the NT. There are many today who play-act at it.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

I think the Cessationists believe that "the perfect" has come.

1Co 13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

But since I am not a Cessationist, then anything I say about it will of course be seen as "misrepresenting" Cessationism.

Cessationism is controversial even among cessationists. But then, continuationism is even controversial among continuationists. Everyone has their particular slant about it.
TD

 

[Neo4257]

Here is part of it:

1 Corinthians 13
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.​

Yours and His,
David

So basically to them "the perfect" was the canonization of scripture I assume? From the context of this verse, how do they arrive at this conclusion instead of something else such as the return of Christ, where in essence we will become like him in the twinkling of an eye?

 

[Anto9us]

"by them that heard him"

That is the THEM in Hebrews 2:4 -- the antecedent in the preceding verse -- in no way does the writer "exclude himself" from being able to have the gifts -- the exclusion is excluding himself from being one of those that actually HEARD THE LORD.

And that 'exclusion' could technically include the Apostle Paul -- who said "I speak in tongues more than ye all"

 

[Anto9us]

Yes, Neo, the coming of the Bible is in their eyes "the perfect". How they arrive at that conclusion is beyond me

 

[Innerfire89]

I actually don't belive casting out demons has ceased.
But certain gifts were for a certain purpose, spreading the Gospel early on, and validating Christ and the apostles to establish The Church and the complete cannon of Scripture.

Like you mentioned yourself, the gifts were used in spreading the Gospel. Take things for example, tounges are understandable human languages, but I know of no missionaries who are using tounges to spread the Gospel instead tounges are used today to pray, not a biblical function of the gift.

We can even see that certain gifts were ceasing within Scripture.
1 Timothy 5:23, 2 Timothy 4:20

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church: and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

If they could go to someone with the gift of healing, why would Paul instead instruct them to call on the elders for prayer?

As for seeing miracles to bring people to faith.
John 2:23
Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

Sound good, right? They believed. But if we read on...
John 2:24
But Jesus did not commit himself to them, because he knew all men.

They beliefs of those followers didn't have true faith, just faith in miracles.
Also consider Nicodemous, who also saw the miracles of Christ.
And look at John 6:2, they saw the miracles and believed, but look at what Christ says in verse 26. And then in verse 29, " Blesssed are they that have not seen and yet have belived.

 

[Innerfire89]

Yes, Neo, the coming of the Bible is in their eyes "the perfect". How they arrive at that conclusion is beyond me

The word "perfect" simply means mature in the Greek. Notice how the next verses show this, "when I was a child I spoke like a child...
We see through a mirror dimly...

So being that before those verses is about prophecy and tounges ceassing, it is the prophecy and tounges of the still growing and immature church, in due time when the church is grown into maturity, with all that was before needed to get there, then those things will pass away.

P.S. Don't I know you from another site. It was crossdressers anonymous, lol, just kidding. It was Christforums.

 

[Micah888]

I think the Cessationists believe that "the perfect" has come.

True. But before we go any further we should be clear that the greatest miracle which is worked by God today is the New Birth, which is a daily miracle worldwide, as hundreds or thousands of souls are saved. It is the supernatural power of the Gospel and the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit which bring sinners to repentance and salvation. And that is the primary goal of the Gospel.

Having said that, the word "perfect" can and does mean complete. So when the Scriptures were completed, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge (which is supernatural, since ordinary knowledge was already present) would cease (come to an end). Those three gifts pertain to direct divine revelation, since even tongues were revealing "the wonderful works of God" in Acts 2. Once the book of Revelation was completed, revelations ceased, as did prophecy.

When we go through Scripture (and also examine Christian churches as they operate today) we see that God used miracles (signs and wonders) only from time to time, and for special purposes. When Christ and the apostles were on earth their supernatural miracles authenticated their Gospel message, and Paul even calls them "the signs of an apostle". So we read this in Acts 2:22 about Christ: Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know...

The same principle applied to the apostles and their companions: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:3,4).

This is primarily because the Jews looked for a sign, and Paul tells us plainly that tongues are a sign to them that believe not. So unbelieving Jews needed to see the mighty power of God accompanying the Gospel in order to be saved. While thousands of them were saved in Jerusalem after Pentecost, Israel as a whole rejected the Gospel and Christ.

Supernatural healings have always attracted a great deal of attention, but when we read the epistle of James, he does not tell Christians that they will always have one or two people with the gift of healing in the churches. Instead he recommends the prayer of faith of the elders. And this gives us the clue to whether or not the sign gifts as a whole would continue. Those who claim to speak in tongues today call them a "prayer language" but that was not their purpose in the early churches.

Claims have been made for miracles since the end of the Apostolic Age, particularly in the Catholic Church, but conservative Protestant scholars such as B. B. Warfield have identified them as counterfeit miracles. Today we hear about the existence of a phenomenon called "being slain in the Spirit" but it has absolutely no scriptural authority. No one ever fell backwards when Christ and the apostles laid hands on them or healed them. Rather, they were always raised up.

So while the supernatural "sign" gifts may have been withdrawn, there are many other spiritual gifts listed in the NT, and Cessationism does NOT apply to them. Therefore it is incorrect to say that Cessationism teaches that all spiritual gifts have come to an end. Today Christians walk by faith and not by sight, and unbelievers are blessed more by NOT seeing and yet believing, rather than seeing and believing (as Thomas was told). Lastly, we should not forget what the Lord said about some -- that they would not believe though one rose from the dead (speaking of Himself).

 

[Radagast]

Read this: Why I Am a Cessationist

There are also a number of books making the cessationist case.

 

[swordsman1]

One thing I don't understand about cessationism. Throughout the Book of John, Jesus constantly points to the miracles and good works performed as an indication that He was from The Father, because generally speaking the religious leaders didn't accept the words He spoke concerning His identity. The same thing happened in Acts with the early church. If Jesus used the Gifts of the Spirit to reach the lost and He is our model, even saying we would do greater works than Him, what is the scriptural basis for the gifts ceasing after the Scripture was complete? Does the completion of Scripture somehow belittle the need for healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out demons? Why would we divorce ourselves from the spiritual gifts if they were and are so effective in reaching the lost? Furthermore, if even John said the entire record of Jesus couldn't be contained in the word, why do we make such an emphasis on the word instead of Jesus who is the Word incarnate?

Cessationists only believe certain gifts ceased (apostleship, tongues, miracles and healing, prophecy), not that all spiritual gifts ceased. There are over 20 others listed in scripture that continue today.

Most people agree that apostles ceased, which is listed as a gift in 1 Cor 12:28, so there is one gift that ceased right off the bat. If apostles ceased then so did prophets as they are both described as being the foundation of the church in Eph 2:20 "...having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets". And if prophecy ceased then so did tongues as they cease together in 1 Cor 13:8 "if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease". That passage also tells us when prophecy and tongues would cease: 1 Cor 13:10 "when the perfect comes" or "when completeness comes" (depending on your bible translation). However Paul does not spell out exactly what that is. Continuists argue that it refers to the return of Christ. However there are a number of difficulties with that interpretation (which we can go into). Another viable interpretation is that it refers to the maturing of the church following the completion of the canon.

With regard to men having the ability to perform healings and miracles there is little doubt that the purpose of such abilities was to authenticate those people and the message they brought. (Heb 2:3-4; John 20:30-31; Acts 2:43, 4:16, 14:3; 2 Cor 12:12; Gal 3:5; Rom 15:17-19; 1 Cor 1:22). Once those people were proven to be from God and their message recorded in Scripture then those gifts were no longer necessary. That is not to say that God does not heal or perform miracles today in response to prayer. But if someone has to pray for healing it proves they do not have the gift of healing.

Another important scriptural consideration is that the biblical descriptions of those gifts do not match the description of the claimed gifts we see today. Tongues is only described as the miraculous ability to speak a foreign human languages you have never learned (Acts 2:4-11). Nowhere is it described as a non-human heavenly language as is claimed today. Prophecy is described as God speaking infallibly to a prophet (Ex 4:10-17, 7:1-2; Deut 13:1-5, 18:15-22, Jer 1:9, Ezek 3:4, 10–11), not as thoughts popping into someones head which may or may not be from God. The gift of healing is described as the ability to perform instantaneous and 100% effective healings of permanent disabilities such blindness or paraplegia (Acts 3:6-8; 5:12-16; 9:32-35; 14:8-10; 28:8-9) -unlike today's faith healers who often fail to heal, take lengthy periods of time, or can only heal minor unprovable or psychosomatic ailments.

 

[Anto9us]

Yes, Inner, you know me from Christforums.
And yes, as it was posted before, Cessationists disagree among themselves -- with some even in this thread taking the "completed Bible" angle, and one saying even the writer of Hebrews excluded himself from the era of the sign gifts, and it was also said that a church reaching maturity caused the gifts to cease. Hebrews was written before there was a completed New Testament.

So we see that Cessationists are "the blind men describing the elephant".
Some touched his trunk, tail or side and say "elephant is like a tree, rope, wall" or whatever.

About counterfeiting, this is a ridiculous point, equating to saying that because counterfeit money exists (which it undoubtedly does) that our genuine currency is not valid. That's silly. And it could be more serious than "play-acting" when the gifts are faked and not genuine, it may be human fakery or in some cases it could be satanic/demonic.

The eisogesis of the Cessationists is quite plain in two instances even in this thread so far-

1. assuming that "the perfect" means completed NT while the Bible does not say that,

2. and assuming the writer of Hebrews excludes himself from sign gift era when, in context, the THEM means those who actually heard the Lord, he is only excluding himself from those that heard the Lord teach.

Cessationists "touch the parts of the elephant" that concern tongues at Pentecost; failing to read that Paul says there are diverse kinds of tongues; they hammer in on Acts ch 2 as if that is the only use, purpose, or instance of Tongues -- it is not. Paul speaks of "the tongues of men and of angels" -- so the "human language only" crock is shut down and seen as invalid. Paul says he will pray in the spirit as well as pray with understanding also -- so much for the elephant-touchers who claim prayer language is invalid.

The PERFECT is something yet to come -- when Christ comes back -- this far from perfect world has had the New Testament for centuries.

Another huge difference from 'tongues at Pentecost' vs 'tongues later on in New Testament' is that at Pentecost NO INTERPRETATION WAS REQUIRED - the foreigners HEARD THE APOSTLES IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES! But later we see Paul saying someone who speaks in tongues should have it INTERPRETED; that can be by the speaker OR someone else.

But usually those Cessationists who have a bee in their bonnet for disclaiming tongues/sign gifts today totally ignore anything but the FIRST INSTANCE of tongues at Acts ch 2, completely ignoring 'diverse kinds of tongues' or 'tongues of men and of angels'.

 

[Anto9us]

The OP wanted to know WHY Cessationists are as they are, why they think sign-gifts have CEASED instead of thinking of THE PERFECT in its more obvious meaning - Christ coming back in twinkling of an eye and the perfection, completeness, maturity that will bring.

I have chosen to try to explain to Neo4257 some things I have been exposed to in 45 years of listening to the ration of dung from Cessationists. I received Baptism of the Holy Spirit when I was 20; I had been saved the year before. At that time in early 70's -- I was in college and many many fellow students were GETTING THE GHOST left and right -- the majority stayed within their existing denominations, though visiting services of Assembly of God and other flat-out Pentecostal groups. Some changed to the fully Pentecostal churches, but not the majority. I will try to explain four categories of Christians and their stances on Tongues/Prophecy/Word of Knowledge -- the three sign gifts which are talked about as passing away in the future.

 

[Anto9us]

The first of the four categories of Christians I will try to describe are

1. the Cessationists themselves. As seen obviously here in this thread, they are not a group with agreed-upon reasons that tongues/prophecy/word of knowledge have ceased; they are just dead-sure that they have ceased

2. by far the majority of Christians in the world today NEITHER speak in tongues/prophesy/declare a Word of Knowledge NOR do they adamantly claim these things cannot happen today, the gifts are not a part of their ongoing worship, yet they know, sitting in their Presbyterian or Baptist church that the Assembly of God church a block down the road has members speaking in tongues all the time and exhibiting gifts -- well, even if they don't know it, they have no SET POSITION against it happening. These are the biggest of the four groups

3. the Pentecostals and Charismatics who go to churches where sign-gifts are a regular part of worship. Unfortunately there may be a minority in this group who over-boardedly claim that speaking in Tongues is something every Christian should do. No. Paul asks the rhetorical question "do all speak with tongues?" and a no is assumed. The extremists who say you must speak in tongues to be saved are clearly mistaken.

4. Christians who have had the charismatic experience yet remain in denominations where the gifts are not a regular main part of worship. I am in this category. I visited pentecostal and assembly of God churches much, but I like Methodism. I attended for a while a charismatic Episcopal church and they went strictly by the book of one message in tongues at a time and it must be interpreted. This was quite different from a whole crowd of prayer-languagers raising hands and speaking en masse. I also attended some Charismatic Catholic services.

These are just broad general categories. As I have said, #2 is by far the largest population.

Adding apostleship and miracles and healing to the three designated gifts that will eventually expire is not warranted -- and Paul did not say he was "the last apostle" -- he said Christ appeared to him last out of those listed

1Co 15:5
And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7
After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8
And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul said he was last to see Christ of those mentioned, not that he was the last apostle.
He said in next verse he was LEAST of the apostles, not LAST of the apostles.

 

[Innerfire89]

Yes, Inner, you know me from Christforums.
And yes, as it was posted before, Cessationists disagree among themselves -- with some even in this thread taking the "completed Bible" angle, and one saying even the writer of Hebrews excluded himself from the era of the sign gifts, and it was also said that a church reaching maturity caused the gifts to cease. Hebrews was written before there was a completed New Testament.

So we see that Cessationists are "the blind men describing the elephant".
Some touched his trunk, tail or side and say "elephant is like a tree, rope, wall" or whatever.

About counterfeiting, this is a ridiculous point, equating to saying that because counterfeit money exists (which it undoubtedly does) that our genuine currency is not valid. That's silly. And it could be more serious than "play-acting" when the gifts are faked and not genuine, it may be human fakery or in some cases it could be satanic/demonic.

The eisogesis of the Cessationists is quite plain in two instances even in this thread so far-

1. assuming that "the perfect" means completed NT while the Bible does not say that,

2. and assuming the writer of Hebrews excludes himself from sign gift era when, in context, the THEM means those who actually heard the Lord, he is only excluding himself from those that heard the Lord teach.

Cessationists "touch the parts of the elephant" that concern tongues at Pentecost; failing to read that Paul says there are diverse kinds of tongues; they hammer in on Acts ch 2 as if that is the only use, purpose, or instance of Tongues -- it is not. Paul speaks of "the tongues of men and of angels" -- so the "human language only" crock is shut down and seen as invalid. Paul says he will pray in the spirit as well as pray with understanding also -- so much for the elephant-touchers who claim prayer language is invalid.

The PERFECT is something yet to come -- when Christ comes back -- this far from perfect world has had the New Testament for centuries.

Another huge difference from 'tongues at Pentecost' vs 'tongues later on in New Testament' is that at Pentecost NO INTERPRETATION WAS REQUIRED - the foreigners HEARD THE APOSTLES IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES! But later we see Paul saying someone who speaks in tongues should have it INTERPRETED; that can be by the speaker OR someone else.

But usually those Cessationists who have a bee in their bonnet for disclaiming tongues/sign gifts today totally ignore anything but the FIRST INSTANCE of tongues at Acts ch 2, completely ignoring 'diverse kinds of tongues' or 'tongues of men and of angels'.

All cessationest agree that the Bible is complete. It makes no difference how many of us disagree or how much we disagree on, it's has nothing to do with the matter at hand. But if we want to go that road, I could just as easily say the same of countinualist, I'm sure all of don't belive you can teach a person how to speak in tounges.

I belive tounges are genuine when I see them used as such.
Why would Paul need to tell the Corinthians that they won't need tounges anymore after Christ return, it would be obvious. Yet Paul is correcting the Corinthians on thier improper use of tounges.

The foreigners were the interpertators.

Diverse kinds of tounges is the same as saying diverse kinds of languages.
"Speaking in the tounges of angels" is a hyperbolic expression, Paul continues on to say " if I have not love, I'm like resounding gong."

 

[W2L]

We dont need signs any more. We have the Word. Faith comes by hearing.

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[swordsman1]

Cessationists "touch the parts of the elephant" that concern tongues at Pentecost; failing to read that Paul says there are diverse kinds of tongues; they hammer in on Acts ch 2 as if that is the only use, purpose, or instance of Tongues -- it is not. Paul speaks of "the tongues of men and of angels" -- so the "human language only" crock is shut down and seen as invalid. Paul says he will pray in the spirit as well as pray with understanding also -- so much for the elephant-touchers who claim prayer language is invalid.

Acts 2 is the only definition of tongues in scripture. The diverse kinds of tongues would be the diversity of languages spoken (eg Persian, Arabic, Latin, etc) not non-human languages. Tongues is never described as being a non-human language. The tongues of angels in 1 Cor 13:1 is an exaggerated hypothetical example, the same as the other examples of gifts in the next 2 verses - having the gift of prophecy to the degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge; having the gift of faith to the degree of removing mountains; having the gift of giving to the degree of giving away ALL that you own and even giving up your own life. Paul is making the point that having gifts, even to the highest degree conceivable, would be worthless without love.

The PERFECT is something yet to come -- when Christ comes back -- this far from perfect world has had the New Testament for centuries.

There is no mention of Christ or his return in that passage. And the translation of teleios as 'the perfect' is questionable, hence increasing numbers of bible versions switching their translation to 'completeness' as the NIV did recently.

Another huge difference from 'tongues at Pentecost' vs 'tongues later on in New Testament' is that at Pentecost NO INTERPRETATION WAS REQUIRED - the foreigners HEARD THE APOSTLES IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES! But later we see Paul saying someone who speaks in tongues should have it INTERPRETED; that can be by the speaker OR someone else.

That is because at Pentecost there were thousands of foreigners present many of whom recognized their native tongue being spoken, while in 1 Corinthians Paul was dealing with unrecognized tongues being spoken in a small local house church in Greece. If something like Persian was being spoken it is not surprising that it had to be translated so that the local congregation could understand what was spoken.

 

[Micah888]

We dont need signs any more. We have the Word. Faith comes by hearing.

And that is the real issue. We have the complete written Word of God, and we have the Gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation. Millions have been saved since 100 AD simply from the preaching of the Gospel.

And what we generally see today are counterfeit miracles with people being "slain in the Spirit", falling down on the ground, and all kinds of other bizarre phenomena. That is not what Scripture reveals.