What is the Scriptural Basis for Cessationism?

[Major1]

New apostles, like Paul and later century apostles have a different task and can bear witness to experiencing that Jesus is alive. The church after Nero was stymied. Paul taught Timothy about coming doctrines of demons. Food regulations, but obviously torturing heretics to death was demonic. And later protestants tortured what they called witches.

These things made converting pagans near impossible. David Brainerd began to break through. And John Wesley... only when Christians would be real Christians and love so called witches and heretics, being pagans or idolaters, could church grow and breathe again. So we begin to see the restoration of apostles, like in Acts 17:27, they seek God and God set the times and places for them, to serve God and make disciples of all nations. Each time and place a unique vision, calling and plan. Witnesses with signs and wonders from the same Spirit. Wesley, apostle of social holiness.

Timothy also learned that we ought ignore "word striving". Changing context based understandings on the meaning of one word in the passage. And Paul mentioned endless genealogies.

Revelation ends with the warning not to add or remove from the book. Although John was only referring to Revelation and not the whole Bible. Luther's Bible has 66 books, the older one, the Catholic had Tobit and Maccabees 1 and 2... If you remove the teaching about the Holy Spirit from the NT, then is when you are in trouble. And The Spirit is here now and Jesus sent Him from Heaven. We need be disciples of the Holy Spirit, here to the end of the age, and the ends of the Earth.

You said...………..
"Revelation ends with the warning not to add or remove from the book. Although John was only referring to Revelation and not the whole Bible. Luther's Bible has 66 books, the older one, the Catholic had Tobit and Maccabees 1 and 2... If you remove the teaching about the Holy Spirit from the NT, then is when you are in trouble."

I believe that if you will read Deuteronomy 4:2 you will see a dual warning...…..
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

The Word of the Lord is perfect. It is finished. We can no more add to the revelation of God than we can add to the finished work of Christ or the work of Creation, although man in his pride makes many attempts.

Any book, chapter, verse or word, which I have not spoken; nor give any comment that has any tendency to corrupt, weaken, or destroy any part of this revelation.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You are very correct my friend.

The "Sign Gifts" were given to the ELEVEN so that they could do what was needed to establish the church.

So they could establish something that ideally would continue, not only until Christ returns but to make it possible, for Jesus said, only after all have heard the Gospel across the world, that he will return and end the suffering. More and more evangelists and apostles going to India, Mongolia, Holland, Russia, Indonesia, Uganda...

THEY could and did what Jesus could do and did. THEY healed the sick, spoke in tongues, received knowledge from the Lord Jesus, raised the dead, drank filthy water and survived snake bites.

They include Paul who never met Jesus as Peter did. People in NDEs today meet Jesus and come back to life and live as Christians. Paul survived the snake bit in Acts on the island of Malta.

However, no matter what is said, there is not ONE SINGLE verse in the Bible that declares the office of the Apostle was to be continued after the last one, John died.

It is only common sense that the church must stay the same in offices in order to "some plant, some water"... and grow that all the world hears and hopefully turns, and Christ then returns. Our great aim and goal. If you say "some" were made apostles, as from 1 Corinthians, you change the plain meaning of that verse, to mean 11 people. Nonsense.

The people who do the tongues and accept the temporary healings and believe in miracles from men do so because that's WANT TO DO and NOT because the Scriptures tell them to.

Personally, I do not care if they do those things. It is their choice to do so and is not a gift or a command from God. That is ALL I am saying and if anyone wants to do those things...…..Go right ahead and do them.

Cessationists omit scriptures, and change meanings to suit an easier spirituality.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Sola Scriptura and not Scripture and Spirit, is an erring practice. Self contradictory.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

The OP wanted to know WHY Cessationists are as they are, why they think sign-gifts have CEASED instead of thinking of THE PERFECT in its more obvious meaning - Christ coming back in twinkling of an eye and the perfection, completeness, maturity that will bring.

I have chosen to try to explain to Neo4257 some things I have been exposed to in 45 years of listening to the ration of dung from Cessationists. I received Baptism of the Holy Spirit when I was 20; I had been saved the year before. At that time in early 70's -- I was in college and many many fellow students were GETTING THE GHOST left and right -- the majority stayed within their existing denominations, though visiting services of Assembly of God and other flat-out Pentecostal groups. Some changed to the fully Pentecostal churches, but not the majority. I will try to explain four categories of Christians and their stances on Tongues/Prophecy/Word of Knowledge -- the three sign gifts which are talked about as passing away in the future.

Getting the ghost????what a profane way to speak of God.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

That of course is correct.

I would also say that what we can know about Christ is found in the Bible and not from any speaker who says he has the "gift of knowledge or...a Word from God".

Why then do you think the Bible is THE complete thing instead of what comes after Christ returns?

 

[W2L]

Jesus was tested with scripture quoted to him. Jesus was given wisdom and led by the Spirit, and thus was able to overcome the deceptions of Satan. A boy and scripture and there are a lot of questions. In his aid is the Holy Spirit teacher of all truth, and an introduction is good, such as from dad or a youth pastor.

What is your point brother? We are not children.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

What is your point brother? We are not children.

You need more than scripture alone. You need the Spirit. The more the better. Born again. Anointed, Isaiah 11:2. Gifts of knowledge.

 

[W2L]

You need more than scripture alone. You need the Spirit. The more the better. Born again. Anointed, Isaiah 11:2. Gifts of knowledge.

Yes, i was also saying that we need to follow the Spirit. I think i misread your post, my apologies.

 

[tdidymas]

Our definition of miracles and miraculous gifts are different.

The laying on of hands is for people who have received an impartation. If a youth lays on you you need be careful of what happens. But if a mature Christian with a clean heart and an anointing lays hands on you, you could healed or set free from an addiction. I experienced some of that. Testifying is Biblical.

The anointing as Paul said, using the term charism, can be transferred. Also Moses did this to make judges. By the laying on of hands.

Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving—to be spoken through the Lord—by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will. YLT

Heb 2:3 How, then, shall we escape if we pay no attention to such a great salvation? The Lord himself first announced this salvation, and those who heard him proved to us that it is true.
Heb 2:4 At the same time God added his witness to theirs by performing all kinds of miracles and wonders and by distributing the gifts of the Holy Spirit according to his will. GNB

Miracle:

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.

Anyone can lay on hands, and anyone can claim an impartation. That is not miraculous, regardless of how strongly one claims it is.
TD

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Miracle:

1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.

Anyone can lay on hands, and anyone can claim an impartation. That is not miraculous, regardless of how strongly one claims it is.
TD

The dictionary definition is not the same as the Biblical. In the Gospel some works are called miracles and others are healings. As from the Gospel, speaking in new tongues is not a miracle.

Impartations are evidence based, so people can see, or "hear, and be healed", or set free from addiction. If you do not believe Jesus can save you from or set you free from sin, then you are on your own, or with Pelagius. Luke 6:18

Paul laid hands on Timothy and he was empowered. Moses laid hands on the judges and shared his spiritual power. The prophets were anointed with sacred oil. That is the way of God the way the Gospel works. You cannot give away what you do not have. A beginner can ask for God to heal a fellow without an impartation by asking God with faith for the healing. In the unseen world of angels, may come the healing. Brought down by faith.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The Hebrews were taught the laying on of hands, and it was normal for them, considered the foundation. A foundational teaching they were not to need to revise and go onto more yet.

CEV
Heb 6:1 We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God.
Heb 6:2 And we shouldn't need to keep teaching about baptisms or about the laying on of hands or about people being raised from death and the future judgment.
Heb 6:3 Let's grow up, if God is willing.
Heb 6:4 But what about people who turn away after they have already seen the light and have received the gift from heaven and have shared in the Holy Spirit? What about those who turn away after they have received the good message of God and the powers of the future world? There is no way to bring them back. What they are doing is the same as nailing the Son of God to a cross and insulting him in public!

The Hebrews if they turned away under pressure from the Pharisees, would agree Jesus was a false prophet and deserved to die.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving—to be spoken through the Lord—by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will. YLT

Paul who never saw Jesus in the flesh on Earth, imparted power to Timothy, who wrote Hebrews, at least possibly Timothy.

The seeking God like Moses and coming down with something to give away to the people goes on. Hebrews 6 shows the laying on of hands goes on. Should be normal.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

A miracle of God who created the natural laws I think will use the natural laws contrary to the scientific definition of one. So afterwards one may find a natural explanation. Although some things may be beyond explanation, such as cancer dying quickly or the optic nerve growing back, or brain healing, from deformity and ending periods of seizures.

 

[Major1]

Why then do you think the Bible is THE complete thing instead of what comes after Christ returns?

When Christ returns.....It will not be a "THING".

The Scriptures are the Complete/Mature/Finished Word of God and in those Scriptures is the explanation of the 2nd Coming of Christ which makes that event "INCLUSIVE".

 

[Major1]

Sola Scriptura and not Scripture and Spirit, is an erring practice. Self contradictory.

I am not sure that you understand Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura in no way rejects the Holy Spirit and it certainly can not be self contradictory.

The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.


2 Tim. 3:16...……..
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”.

Sola scriptura was the rallying cry of the Protestant Reformation. For centuries the Roman Catholic Church had made its traditions superior in authority to the Bible. This resulted in many practices that were in fact contradictory to the Bible.

As a result Martin Luther said in his 99 Thesis...……
“Unless therefore I am convinced by the testimony of Scripture, or by the clearest reasoning, unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the Word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other; may God help me! Amen!”

Sola Scriptura is a method of understanding the Scriptures as the authority of God and NOT the RCC method of Traditions.

 

[Major1]

A miracle of God who created the natural laws I think will use the natural laws contrary to the scientific definition of one. So afterwards one may find a natural explanation. Although some things may be beyond explanation, such as cancer dying quickly or the optic nerve growing back, or brain healing, from deformity and ending periods of seizures.

I do not know about anyone else here, but I for one am NOT arguing that God does not do miracles because He certainly does.

God does miracles but men do not.

 

[Major1]

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving—to be spoken through the Lord—by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will. YLT

Paul who never saw Jesus in the flesh on Earth, imparted power to Timothy, who wrote Hebrews, at least possibly Timothy.

The seeking God like Moses and coming down with something to give away to the people goes on. Hebrews 6 shows the laying on of hands goes on. Should be normal.

Technically Of course, you are correct. However, Paul did encounter the Lord Jesus on the Damascus Road after Christ’s resurrection. While Jesus’ appearance to Paul may have been different in character from Christ’s pre-ascension appearances, this encounter with Paul was no merely subjective vision, as both Jesus’ voice (Acts 9:2) and the bright light
of His presence (Acts 22:9) were perceived by Paul’s traveling companions.

 

[Major1]

The Hebrews were taught the laying on of hands, and it was normal for them, considered the foundation. A foundational teaching they were not to need to revise and go onto more yet.

CEV
Heb 6:1 We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God.
Heb 6:2 And we shouldn't need to keep teaching about baptisms or about the laying on of hands or about people being raised from death and the future judgment.
Heb 6:3 Let's grow up, if God is willing.
Heb 6:4 But what about people who turn away after they have already seen the light and have received the gift from heaven and have shared in the Holy Spirit? What about those who turn away after they have received the good message of God and the powers of the future world? There is no way to bring them back. What they are doing is the same as nailing the Son of God to a cross and insulting him in public!

The Hebrews if they turned away under pressure from the Pharisees, would agree Jesus was a false prophet and deserved to die.

The laying on of hands by the Jews was a picture of ATONEMENT and was an Old Test. ritual.

When the Jew brought a sacrifice to the temple, he laid his hands on the animal signifying his identification with it. The animal was taking his place on the alter.

That is exactly what Jesus did on the cross from us.

 

[Major1]

So they could establish something that ideally would continue, not only until Christ returns but to make it possible, for Jesus said, only after all have heard the Gospel across the world, that he will return and end the suffering. More and more evangelists and apostles going to India, Mongolia, Holland, Russia, Indonesia, Uganda...


They include Paul who never met Jesus as Peter did. People in NDEs today meet Jesus and come back to life and live as Christians. Paul survived the snake bit in Acts on the island of Malta.


It is only common sense that the church must stay the same in offices in order to "some plant, some water"... and grow that all the world hears and hopefully turns, and Christ then returns. Our great aim and goal. If you say "some" were made apostles, as from 1 Corinthians, you change the plain meaning of that verse, to mean 11 people. Nonsense.


Cessationists omit scriptures, and change meanings to suit an easier spirituality.

You said...………
"So they could establish something that ideally would continue".

That my dear friend is adding to the Scriptures. The Scriptures DO NOT say that but instead it is what YOU want them to say so as to validate those who want to speak in tongues and perform miracles.

I personally do not accept that theology, but that is just me.


You said...………

"More and more evangelists and apostles going to India, Mongolia, Holland, Russia, Indonesia, Uganda...".

Agreed. I have been on several missionary trips and Uganda Africa is one of them. I have a good friend, Pastor Casimbo who has a teaching school there for children.

I also have a good friend in South Vietnam who has a school for Pastors.

Neither of them have included a curriculum of "Tongues" but instead teach the known langue of the country they live in.​

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

When Christ returns.....It will not be a "THING".

The Scriptures are the Complete/Mature/Finished Word of God and in those Scriptures is the explanation of the 2nd Coming of Christ which makes that event "INCLUSIVE".

When Christ spoke, his words in the air and on paper were a thing, Christ a person. It will be like this when Christ returns. The whole world will be under his power and light.

Luk 17:23 and they shall say to you, Lo, here; or lo, there; ye may not go away, nor follow;
Luk 17:24 for as the lightning that is lightening out of the one part under heaven, to the other part under heaven doth shine, so shall be also the Son of Man in his day; YLT

Some consider the Bible to be God the word. Others call living water "him".

So the original meaning as is plain from the context of 1 Corinthians 13 is the gifts will cease when something better comes, the perfect the Christ. And since there is word striving over teleios, discording Paul in his letter to Timothy, I explain that the greatest light, will be at His return. The light of prophecy will no longer be needed. Even in Medieval Germany when they had print and a lot of educated people, they still needed and would have done better with the range of gifts including prophecy.