What is exactly and specifically "wrong" with operating under the Old Covenant...?

[misput]

I really don't know for sure (as I said, I don't know everything) and I haven't got any good "revelations" about that specifically yet...

It's possible, but the need for more research maybe is clearly indicated though maybe...?

God Bless!

What other "tree' can you "eat" from and receive eternal life? look at the book of Revelation, near the beginning and toward the end, search tree of life if you can. What other tree if you "eat" from (live by) will condemn you? The law, of course.

 

[misput]

I honestly don't know what she was thinking, or what they were thinking, but I do know what they did, and how and under what circumstances they did it, like in this thread here:

Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, the serpent and knowledge...

If you care to take a look...?

God Bless!

I will tomorrow, I need to get to bed or I will not get up until tomorrow afternoon. Goodnight : )

 

[Neogaia777]

What other "tree' can you "eat" from and receive eternal life? look at the book of Revelation, near the beginning and toward the end, search tree of life if you can. What other tree if you "eat" from (live by) will condemn you? The law, of course.

It does say sin gets it's power through the Law...? And that the "knowledge of sin comes through the Law"...? But also said the Law is not bad "in and of itself" or "without or apart from us" (that it is holy, good, just, pure, righteous, apart from us, ect)...

If that is the case though, what do you think the tree of life would be...?

(And I am asking because I honestly "don't know")

But could it have to do, with this "new way" of "getting there" basically...?

One additional fact that I don't know if you may know or not, both trees are described as being possibly "the same tree" in the "middle of the garden" Because in Genesis 3:3, Eve say "the tree" "that is in the middle of the garden" (implying only one tree there, in the middle of the garden), when both trees were supposed to be there, and be the only two trees there, but she did not specifically specify...

I wonder if that could be referring to the same goal, or outcome, but two ways, one of and that is sin, and one way that is not sin, and if it greatly depends on one's own perspective, or point of view, or thoughts and intentions and motives and motivations that were in the heart, at the time, when one looked upon it (the tree) and/or ate from it I wonder...? And if the serpent and/or Satan changed that, and changed the tree, by changing their perspective maybe...?

Of course, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life (which the Bible just doesn't say if they did or did not unfortunately) anyway, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life, then that/this wouldn't make much sense, because of the command not to eat from it though...?

Anyway, highly theoretical at this point, but just something I noticed and have wondered about, and am not gonna make any definitive conclusions about a this point, right now, for now anyway...?

Just food for thought...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I will tomorrow, I need to get to bed or I will not get up until tomorrow afternoon. Goodnight : )

OK, have a good night...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

It does say sin gets it's power through the Law...? But the Law is not bad "in and of itself" or "without or apart from us" (it is holy, good, just, pure, righteous, apart from us, ect)...

If that is the case though, what do you think the tree of life would be...?

(And I am asking because I honestly "don't know")

But could it have to do, with this "new way" of "getting there" basically...?

One additional fact that I don't know if you may know or not, both trees are described as being possibly "the same tree" in the "middle of the garden" Because in Genesis 3:3, Eve say "the tree" "that is in the middle of the garden" (implying only one tree there, in the middle of the garden), when both trees were supposed to be there, and be the only two trees there, but she did not specifically specify...

I wonder if that could be referring to the same goal, or outcome, but two ways, one of and that is sin, and one way that is not sin, and if it greatly depends on one's own perspective, or point of view, or thoughts and intentions and motives and motivations that were in the heart, at the time, when one looked upon it (the tree) and/or ate from it I wonder...? And if the serpent and/or Satan changed that, and changed the tree, by changing their perspective maybe...?

Of course, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life (which the Bible just doesn't say if they did or did not unfortunately) anyway, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life, then that/this wouldn't make much sense, because of the command not to eat from it though...?

Anyway, highly theoretical at this point, but just something I noticed and have wondered about, and am not gonna make any definitive conclusions about a this point, right now, for now anyway...?

Just food for thought...

God Bless!

As Paul said, and if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Law, and He is talking about the Law here when he says:

"Has then what is good (tree of life) become death (tree of death) to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death (fruit from the tree of death, or the Law) in me through what is good (through the tree of life) (if they were the same tree), so that sin through the commandment (to not eat from it or try to do it, by it), (either the Law, or the single tree) might become exceedingly sinful. (so that "it" (sin and death) might be accomplished quicker), (so that what is good (after that) (but became bad) (could be and/or become the tree of life (again) sooner, and could come faster and quicker and sooner)...

"Maybe"...? Some pretty big "maybe's" here...?

Or that "apart from us", and "before the temptation came", "it" (the Law or the tree) was good, holy, righteous, pure, "gave life", ect...? But (shortly) after the commandment (to not eat from it came) it became death to them, maybe...? Again, "maybe"...?

Food for thought anyway...?

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

Are you sure for sure about that...?

Cause they did have a "kind of communication" with the animals that/which we lost, which means that "in a way" they did "talk to and with each other an one another"...

Could have been more like "thoughts" and knowing and/or "reading hearts and minds" ect, ect, but I'm not going latch onto that part for sure, but they could "communicate" "in a way"...

I've talked about this in other threads, and not scare you or anyone, but I know his (Satan) and their voices, (demons) but it/they are always "outside of me" but I will hear them in my head, but sense and/or feel their presence/position "outside of me" always... And, it's not all the time or constant (anymore) but sometimes (I will) (hear them) (sometimes now)...

Many people do have a "dual nature", and sometimes that can mistaken for Satan, but most of the time, it's not, but it's just the negative side of your dual nature, most often and most of the time, in most cases...

God Bless!

I would say that if the Holy Spirit abides in you, then whatever you're hearing in your head other than Him is always the negative side of your own nature.

When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it roams through waterless places looking for rest but doesn’t find any. Then it says, ‘I’ll go back to my house that I came from.’ And returning, it finds the house vacant, swept, and put in order. Then off it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and settle down there. -- Matthew 12

Demons share space within a person.

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst? 1 Corinthians 3
....
But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit. --1 Corinthians 6
....
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? --1 Corinthians 6

What agreement has Christ with Belial? 2 Corinthians 6

The Holy Spirit does not share space with demons.

 

[misput]

As Paul said, and if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Law, and He is talking about the Law here when he says:

"Has then what is good (tree of life) become death (tree of death) to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death (fruit from the tree of death, or the Law) in me through what is good (through the tree of life) (if they were the same tree), so that sin through the commandment (to not eat from it or try to do it, by it), (either the Law, or the single tree) might become exceedingly sinful. (so that "it" (sin and death) might be accomplished quicker), (so that what is good (after that) (but became bad) (could be and/or become the tree of life (again) sooner, and could come faster and quicker and sooner)...

"Maybe"...? Some pretty big "maybe's" here...?

Or that "apart from us", and "before the temptation came", "it" (the Law or the tree) was good, holy, righteous, pure, "gave life", ect...? But (shortly) after the commandment (to not eat from it came) it became death to them, maybe...? Again, "maybe"...?

Food for thought anyway...?

God Bless!

This and post #123 are awesome! I would love to discuss this further this evening because I have something else I need to do until then.

 

[Neogaia777]

This and post #123 are awesome! I would love to discuss this further this evening because I have something else I need to do until then.

Thank You Brother...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

It does say sin gets it's power through the Law...? And that the "knowledge of sin comes through the Law"...? But also said the Law is not bad "in and of itself" or "without or apart from us" (that it is holy, good, just, pure, righteous, apart from us, ect)...

Right, it is we who are week or bad, not the law therefore we are condemned by it but In

Mt 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others"

This "justice and mercy and faithfulness" is where the tree of life comes in. In other words there are two aspects of the law, that is keeping the law on our own, tree of knowledge of good and evil which brings death or overcoming by keeping the law through justice, mercy and faith from God and Jesus which is the tree of life way. So I believe you are right, one tree but two aspects of it. When Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, He replied "love God with all your heart, mind and soul in other words have faith in Him (the tree of life) this was the first and greatest commandment and will enable a person to keep His commandments of loving Him and our neighbor as our self not that we actually can perfectly but through Him we are credited as keeping His commandments perfectly because of faith.


Quote777 "If that is the case though, what do you think the tree of life would be...?

(And I am asking because I honestly "don't know")"

See above.

Quote777"But could it have to do, with this "new way" of "getting there" basically...?"

No it has always been this way.

Quote777"One additional fact that I don't know if you may know or not, both trees are described as being possibly "the same tree" in the "middle of the garden" Because in Genesis 3:3, Eve say "the tree" "that is in the middle of the garden" (implying only one tree there, in the middle of the garden), when both trees were supposed to be there, and be the only two trees there, but she did not specifically specify...

I wonder if that could be referring to the same goal, or outcome, but two ways, one of and that is sin, and one way that is not sin, and if it greatly depends on one's own perspective, or point of view, or thoughts and intentions and motives and motivations that were in the heart, at the time, when one looked upon it (the tree) and/or ate from it I wonder...? And if the serpent and/or Satan changed that, and changed the tree, by changing their perspective maybe...?"

Yes! Great reasoning by the Holy Spirit!

Quote"Of course, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life (which the Bible just doesn't say if they did or did not unfortunately) anyway, if they were regularly eating from the tree of life, then that/this wouldn't make much sense, because of the command not to eat from it though...?"

Only to not eat from it in the wrong way.

Quote"Anyway, highly theoretical at this point, but just something I noticed and have wondered about, and am not gonna make any definitive conclusions about a this point, right now, for now anyway...?

Just food for thought...

God Bless!"

Take your time, The Lord is very patient with us.

 

[Neogaia777]

I wonder if Solomon knew about this two different ways (to achieve the same goal) or not...?

For he says it twice...?

Proverbs 14:12-

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 16:25-

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.



But one is right and one is wrong...?

Might what were talking about be what he is talking about here (above)...?

Solomon sinned a lot, A LOT, throughout his life and in his life, yet, he was highly favored by God, and greatly loved by God, and is still considered, even down to this day, one of the wisest men to ever exist or that was ever known...

Did he learn much of what he had and knew by the way he took...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I wonder if Solomon knew about this two different ways (to achieve the same goal) or not...?

For he says it twice...?

Proverbs 14:12-

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 16:25-

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.



But one is right and one is wrong...?

Might what were talking about be what he is talking about here (above)...?

Solomon sinned a lot, A LOT, throughout his life and in his life, yet, he was highly favored by God, and greatly loved by God, and is still considered, even down to this day, one of the wisest men to ever exist or that was ever known...

Did he learn much of what he had and knew by the way he took...?

God Bless!

Of course I guess some could say that he (Solomon) was referring to the way he took, (the way of sin, ect)...? But, "BUT" the fact that he says it is "a way" that (initially maybe, or at first, or ta the start), "seems right" to (a) man, suggests that he might be referring to the way and/or ways of the Law, (self-effort, self-will and exertion, ect) that end in death, (and sorrow, suffering, misery, anguish, ect) (and not to mention "failure" as well)...

That the way that, at first, "seems right" is not actually right... or is the "actual way, that actually fulfills the Law", or meets up with the (righteous) requirements and/or standards of the Law, in the end...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

Of course I guess some could say that he (Solomon) was referring to the way he took, (the way of sin, ect)...? But, "BUT" the fact that he says it is "a way" that (initially maybe, or at first, or ta the start), "seems right" to (a) man, suggests that he might be referring to the way and/or ways of the Law, (self-effort, self-will and exertion, ect) that end in death, (and sorrow, suffering, misery, anguish, ect) (and not to mention "failure" as well)...

That the way that, at first, "seems right" is not actually right... or is the "actual way, that actually fulfills the Law", or meets up with the (righteous) requirements and/or standards of the Law, in the end...

God Bless!

I really believe you are on to something:
Ex 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Having no other Gods before Him including our self, Having faith in His loving kindness is the only way to obtain His mercy, grace and love and keep His commandments, so simple yet so difficult to understand. I believe each one is working this out or not in his or her life whether we understand it or not. I believe God has this designed so that it is completely fair for everyone! There is scripture that indicates a person is judged by what they know, not what they don't know but still wisdom and understanding are to be sought after as a pearl of great price. What a glorious and wonderful thing we are privileged to search for and ponder!!! This is why I believe there is a Royal Law but within that law there is a perfect law of liberty that can set us free from the law of sin and death!

 

[Neogaia777]

I really believe you are on to something:
Ex 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Having no other Gods before Him including our self, Having faith in His loving kindness is the only way to obtain His mercy, grace and love and keep His commandments, so simple yet so difficult to understand. I believe each one is working this out or not in his or her life whether we understand it or not. I believe God has this designed so that it is completely fair for everyone! There is scripture that indicates a person is judged by what they know, not what they don't know but still wisdom and understanding are to be sought after as a pearl of great price. What a glorious and wonderful thing we are privileged to search for and ponder!!!

Thank You Brother...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

Thank You Brother...

God Bless!

Thank you! Sorry, I was editing my last post and I think you might have missed my last sentence. Please feel free to disagree with anything I post that you disagree.

 

[Neogaia777]

Thank you! Sorry, I was editing my last post and I think you might have missed my last sentence. Please feel free to disagree with anything I post that you disagree.

OK, well, as for that last line, I have been taught that they are one in the same, (The Royal Law and or is the same as the Law of Liberty/Freedom, ect) but that could be, or I could be wrong in that, IDK...?

That the Royal Law is like the principles and/or laws centered around what many call the Golden Rule, or Rules, or Laws of Love/Faith ect...? That is the same as the Law of Liberty/Freedom ect... That all of those are pretty much the same thing...? Or are all centered around, and are all based upon, the same principles or foundations, (or Laws/Rules ect) being one is the same (thing), basically...?

God Bless!

 

[misput]

OK, well, as for that last line, I have been taught that they are one in the same, (The Royal Law and or is the same as the Law of Liberty/Freedom, ect) but that could be, or I could be wrong in that, IDK...?

That the Royal Law is like the principles and/or laws centered around what many call the Golden Rule, or Rules, or Laws of Love/Faith ect...? That is the same as the Law of Liberty/Freedom ect... That all of those are pretty much the same thing...? Or are all centered around, and are all based upon, the same principles or foundations, (or Laws/Rules ect) being one is the same (thing), basically...?

God Bless!

You make a really good point but I find it interesting that James uses two different terms. Not that it really proves my point. It seems that all of scripture is saying, if you didn't get that, look at it this way dummy : )

 

[Neogaia777]

You make a really good point but I find it interesting that James uses two different terms. Not that it really proves my point. It seems that all of scripture is saying, if you didn't get that, look at it this way dummy : )

Could you maybe show me where he (James) uses those two different terms maybe...?

Just so I don't have to try and rummage through James to find them or look them up maybe...?

Then maybe I can comment more on it...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

Could you maybe show me where he (James) uses those two different terms maybe...?

Just so I don't have to try and rummage through James to find them or look them up maybe...?

Then maybe I can comment more on it...

God Bless!

I was just heading over to study them again, I will let yo know when I find them : )

 

[Neogaia777]

Could you maybe show me where he (James) uses those two different terms maybe...?

Just so I don't have to try and rummage through James to find them or look them up maybe...?

Then maybe I can comment more on it...

God Bless!

Nevermind, found them...

I don't see how they are any different though, aren't they pretty much, or don't they pretty much, or are they not pretty much, referring to or are pretty much the same thing...? As far as their rules and or laws or basic principles go...? Aren't they referring to or are meaning the same thing, also called the "perfect law" by James also...? Or not...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I was just heading over to study them again, I will let yo know when I find them : )

James 1:25, James 2:8, and James 2:12...

God Bless!