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Featured What is a born again christian and can I be one?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Chgz, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you don't see it.

    Just curious. What scriptures do you think address being born again, besides John 3?
     
  2. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    The problem is the scripture you quoted only says be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. It says nothing about being born again. And in the section were Yeshua says born again, it says nothing about baptism or receiving the Holy Spirit. It describes those who are born again. What Yeshua said applies to most who do not understand the teaching..."if I tell you of earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe when I tell you of heavenly things"
     
  3. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    i see it, and i see nothing.
    what you do NOT do is explain first how 'born again' fits the scripture you quoted.

    you are assuming a definition of 'born again' which you are not saying and yet thinks your definition is a generally accepted concept.

    what you are really doing is trying to 'fit' your idea of what 'born again' means and force it on scripture which does not say anything about it at all, and then tell everyone 'they dont see it'.
     
  4. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    it is the same thing, you have to do this and that in order to be born again. doesn't really matter if the requirement is faith, baptism, obedience and what have you. what is obvious from what you are saying is that to be born again is a result of something you need to do, or need to express,or need to be.

    you are simply saying you BORN AGAIN yourself. think!

    now read John 3, read it 70x7 then ask the question like Nicodemus. for if you don't ask the question, you will never know. and you will never be truly born again.
     
  5. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Im not saying anything.
    Its what the scripture states.
    forgiveness is forgiveness ..but doesnt make a person born again.
    to be born of water and og spirit they must be baptised into christ's death..and then receive the promised holy spirit. Who is life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  6. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    The instruction..preached..to be saved..
    Repent.be baptised for the remission of your sin..... people who refuse to believe.are not repenting of unbelief ..unbelief is sin.to be born again we must respond obediently to what God has told us to do. the disonedient do not get saved
     
  7. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    im trying to point out here that, according to what you believe, 'to be born again we must ''.. do something first. it doesn't really matter if that is being obedient, have faith, etc..

    you are writing in many directions (saved, preach, baptised, etc..) that is why you get too random and not get into specific.

    discussion is only about 'born again', and you have just pointed out your belief on the matter: that man can born again himself, he needs to do something first.

    now does John 3 ever supports this view ?
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Being “born again” is what Jesus told Nicodemus he need to do. This requires some thinking, because Jesus does not address the questions or comments that are verbalized, but directs his comments to the persons next step in their personal spiritual development (what is on their heart spiritually). Jesus is not making some general philosophical statement (like Buddha might make) but is always addressing the audience He is talking to. We have to get into the context.

    What did Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual development?

    What does Nicodemus need to be doing next? (study the Old Testament, become one of the followers of Jesus right then and there, Confess, repent, etc.)

    The first thing Nicodemus might do at least is what he already knows he should do? Is that not where you would start? So what is that?

    Since Nicodemus is still part of the Sanhedrin, he would not have been immersed baptized by John’s baptism. That would have got him thrown out of the Sanhedrin.

    John’s baptism would have been a hot topic among the religious scholars, yet the answer was obvious and they all know it (remember Jesus using it against them and causing them to quit asking him questions?)

    Jesus is not going to hand out the answer out to Nicodemus, since Nicodemus knows the answer, but he will make Nicodemus think about it hard, since it would already be on his mind.



    Christian water baptism as seen in scripture seems to fit the “born again” scenario Christ was talking about since it: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.
     
  9. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    ...yet the thief on the cross was never baptized...
    Read the ENTIRE passage...born of water and of the spirit...flesh is born of flesh...spirit is born of spirit...
    How many births do we have and how many deaths??? how much more plain can it be???????
     
  10. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    It says you must be born of water (baptism) and spirit (repentance).

    So unless you can provide another verse that says something different about how to be born again, you'll have to be satisfied with that.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    It fits together with John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water (baptism) and the Spirit (repentance/belief).
     
  12. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    You need to read the ENTIRE passage. Otherwise you will never understand it! How many births do we have and how many deaths??? How much more plain can it be???????
     
  13. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    yup.
    not only that .. but john Ch 3 does not out line the entire Gospel message because the work of the cross was not yet done .. one could not be baptised into his death yet because at that time he had not yet died and risen again .
    folks take snippets of scriptures and present an incomplete picture using those snippets .
    we absolutely must be born again of water and of spirit .but do do so we must respond correctly in submission to the message of the good news of Jesus . it's not about what we have done but our response to what he has already done . anything else is disobedience to the gospel and the warning of those who disobey the gospel is plain.
     
  14. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    John 18:36
     
  15. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    right there is an idea you inserted and never questioned.
    you force fit scripture to mean what they never mean.


     
  16. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Why aren't you replhying to my points? Is it too difficult for you?
     
  17. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    There was no “Christian” baptism prior to the thief dying, Christian Baptism and the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit comes with Pentecost.

    Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about what he must do right than and that would be what Nicodemus already knew he should do, that is where you start with any person.
     
  18. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    You are saying water is flesh? How does that make any sense. Sorry, I don't accept that, not by a long shot.

    Those who would be baptized but die before they have the opportunity are covered. We call this the "baptism of desire."
     
  19. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    .you might Call it that .. i'd call it religious waffle .

    yeah i know im a bit stuck on the term waffle lol .
    im not sure what he is saying re baptism .
    i know the thief on the cross could not be baptised into christ's death becaseu at that point in time ..Chrsit has not yet died a death to be baptized into .
     
  20. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    i usd to think like this .. but it is not fully correct
    note i said not fully ..so not totally wrong either .. but the point i would oppose is that it is some outer symbol of an inner thing .. used to think that way but was so wrong .
    the lord Jeuss simply doesnt ever tell us to do anything symbolic.. he only tells us to do things which are the real deal of life and death and salvation and faith .
    when a person is buried in the waters of baptism .. it is not a symbol ..when they understand that it is death ... and when they do it in faith god will actually cause their old man to die and cause them to be raised up again to life by the power of the holy Spirit as a NEW creation in christ - then that is exactly what will happen .
    if the get baptized not believing that will happen ,ie- without faith . then they "get wet' go have lich and carry on in their sinful lifestyle (sometimes secretly )
    in contrast when they do so in faith then god does what he says he will do and they rise up again a new creation..and they do not continue in sin .. for those born of god cannot continue in the practice of sin .
    in short -it Ain't symbolic
     
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