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Featured What is a born again christian and can I be one?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Chgz, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    You mean all those people John baptized, including Yeshua Himself, were not "Christian" and invalid? Uh..ok...YOU need to read the ENTIRE verse also!
     
  2. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    What points. I don't do internet on Shabbat.
     
  3. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    I am not saying it...Yeshua is. So you believe in predestination and not free will? Again, read the ENTIRE passage.
     
  4. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    These points:
     
  5. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Yeshua never says that the "water" in John 3 is "flesh."

    I believe in the sort of predestination that is foreknowledge. Foreknowledge doesn't nix free will.
     
  6. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Again, read the ENTIRE passage! How is FLESH born? How is SPIRIT born? How many births and deaths can we have? When you know and understand this, you will understand the truth of what being "born again" is...
     
  7. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Flesh is born when labor pains squish it out.

    Spirit is created rather than born, and is created by God. However, we speak figuratively about spiritual birth when we speak of people who are transformed. This happens when we confess, repent, and turn our lives over to God.

    What does the birth of flesh have to do with the price of tea in china? We're talking about being born of water, which is baptism, and spirit (discussed above).
     
  8. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE! The birth of flesh has nothing to do with any tea in China...but it does have to do with being born of water...
    Remember, what the question was and that Yeshua's Kingdom is NOT of this world. Last time I am asking you...how many births and how many deaths can we have?
     
  9. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Please stop yelling at me to read the entire passage. I have read the entire passage many, many more times than the years you have been on this planet. If you are trying to make a point that I'm not seeing, then obviously it isn't in the passage and you'll have to articulate it.

    So tell me what being born of the flesh has to do with water? Besides eating ice chips and cleaning up the blood afterwards? AGain, physical birth has to do with contractions pushing the baby out. Isn't that like, so obvious that we shouldn't even have to be discussing this?

    Some people have only a physical birth.

    Some people add to this a spiritual rebirth.

    Some people, because they have serious backslides, go through more than one radical spiritual rebirth. I don't know if you've ever met such a person, but I have.

    We will be resurrected and given glorified bodies when the world is recreated. That is also a kind of rebirth.

    That's the best answer I can offer you. I don't think there is one "right" answer to the question. But given that you are a fundamentalist, and fundamentalists have a right answer for everything, I'm sure you have one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  10. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    I am a fundamentalist? What does THAT mean? There is one physical birth (flesh is born FROM flesh) and one spiritual birth (spirit is born of spirit). There is one physical death and CAN be one spiritual death (the 2nd death). Do you understand now? If not, then you have ears and will not hear...eyes to see but can not see. Read what Yeshua says about those born again...do YOU or anyone born of water (presently in the flesh) fit His description of those born again? Again, what did Nakdimon ask Yeshua? Remember, Yeshua said His Kingdom was NOT of this world...
     
  11. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Acts 19: 1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

    They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

    3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

    “John’s baptism,” they replied.

    4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


    There was a huge number of Jews baptized by John’s baptism (it talks about “all” [the masses, but not the Pharisees or gentiles]), so it could have been 100,000 or even a million Jews by the time of Pentecost, but the Bible talks about the church Acts 2: 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

    Acts 4:4 But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.

    That means the number started out much lower than 5000 men, so how could that mean all those that were baptized with John’s baptism were only a few thousand?

    There was nothing “invalid” about John’s baptism and that was what was all that was available prior to Pentecost.
     
  12. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    so explain what your trying to say .. just explain it .its all a bit ambiguous at present . born OF ... flesh is flesh born OF spirit is spirit Born of water is ..?
     
  13. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    oh ..here was an attempt to explain . But it left more questions then anything ..
     
  14. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John baptised for repentance of sin. No one would be born again until after Jesus death on the cross for sin. Sin had to be conquered.
     
  15. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John baptised for repentance of sin. No one would be born again until after Jesus death on the cross for sin. Sin had to be conquered.

    John was sent to prepare the way for Christ. He did not baptise for sin. or forgiveness of sin.
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Again everyone, read the ENTIRE passage. Those of you that say you are born again, do you fit the description Yeshua gave of those that are born again? If you say you do, then please explain how you fit it...
     
  17. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    John 3:1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

    3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

    Let’s stop there for moment:

    Nicodemus would be extremely well versed in scripture (Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin), one that spent all day everyday discussing and debating the OT and what their teachers said about the OT. At this time a hot topic would have been John the Baptist (everyone knew about him and the masses had gone out to be baptized by him). Members of the Sanhedrin did not submit to John’s Baptism, but knew what he said was true:

    John 1: 24 Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”26 “I baptize with water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

    Matt. 3: 7 But when he (John) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

    The Pharisees would not be baptized by John without admitting to their hypocrisy, so they looked upon John as an “enemy” even though they “knew” he was a messenger of God.

    You need to go throughout the gospels and see how Jesus addresses those that come to Him: Jesus does not answer their verbalized questions or comments, but hits them directly where they are spiritually. He does not talk philosophically, but pointedly at the place they are at in their Spiritual growth. To understand Jesus’ first comment to Nicodemus, you can forget what Nicodemus said and focus on where Nicodemus would be spiritually. What next step did Nicodemus need to take in his spiritual life? The first step for anyone life is to do what you already “know” you should do.

    Nicodemus coming the Christ, whom he may not be sure about, would have already “known” John’s Baptism was from God and thus was something he had to have done and yet did not do, yet.

    Jesus at that time was in the “Kingdom”, so in a sense Nicodemus was coming to the edge of the Kingdom physically, but far from it spiritually, since he was not doing what he knew to do.

    Jesus goes on to say: 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

    This being “born again” is an earthly thing, so what earthly thing at the time would fit being born again, which Jesus felt (knew) Nicodemus would fully understand and know about?
     
  18. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    You did not answer my question. How are YOU, IF you say you are born again, fit YESHUA'S description of one that is born again???

    He was explaining that he had spoken of earthly things before and they did not believe so now he speaks of heavenly things and if they did not believe on the other things he said that they saw and knew about but still did not believe, how would they believe THIS! Yeshua said that His Kingdom was NOT of this world. NO ONE can see the Kingdom unless he is born again! John 3:3. Nakdimon says, How can this be? Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. Then he turns and tells if they believe on Him they can have eternal life.
     
  19. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Yet the disciples of Yeshua were baptizing AT THE SAME TIME that John was John 3:22-23 and John 4:1
     
  20. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Using correct grammar Jesus said: “he has been speaking in earthly terms and not spiritual terms and they did not understand.

    Jesus did not speak in Spiritual terms since Jesus said “if”. “how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?”


    Jesus should not have said “if”.

    Again, Jesus is speaking in earthly terms which they (Nicodemus) should have (and really did) understood.

    They just had to believe, Jesus knew what he was talking about, even if they did not know about it before.

    Nicodemus with his knowledge could have easily believed Jesus was the Messiah, but Nicodemus would have already believed like all the Jews in the area that John the Baptist was from God and he had done nothing with that knowledge.
     
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