What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

concretecamper · Mar 8, 2021

imge said:
Christ commanded us to obey His commandments. He did not say obey the Catholic church.

It is scripture. Christ told us to listen to the Church. I challenge all that it is incumbent for us to find that Church because there is only One. To pretend otherwise is following man, not Christ.

imge said:
Jesus promises individuals the Holy Spirit for those who want to obey His laws
Jesus Promises Another Helper
John: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Read John Chapter 14. He is speaking to the Apostles, the first Bishops of His Church. He is not saying any Tom, Dick, or Harry will have inspired and infallible interpretation of scripture.

imge said:
We do not need a mediator, God is our Mediator and you can pray directly to Him.

Jesus is the One mediator between God and man.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 8, 2021

concretecamper said:
It is scripture. Christ told us to listen to the Church. I challenge all that it is incumbent for us to find that Church because there is only One. To pretend otherwise is following man, not Christ.

Read John Chapter 14. He is speaking to the Apostles, the first Bishops of His Church. He is not saying any Tom, Dick, or Harry will have inspired and infallible interpretation of scripture.
Jesus is the One mediator between God and man.

We follow Christ when we read the scriptures in the Bible. God's Words are pure and we are told not one Word should be changed.

Mark tells us His true church in Revelations keeps all of God's commandments.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We find those commandments in the Holy Bible. Exodus 20 now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.

concretecamper · Mar 8, 2021

imge said:
We follow Christ when we read the scriptures in the Bible. God's Words are pure and we are told not one Word should be changed.

agreed, the Bible is the Written Word of God.

imge said:
Mark tells us His true church in Revelations keeps all of God's commandments.

?? ok

imge said:
We find those commandments in the Holy Bible. Exodus 20 now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.

ok

Hmm · Mar 8, 2021

concretecamper said:
Are you more upset with the fact that your denomination doesn't have the hutzpah to claim they are the one true Church?

You seem to be obsessed with telling people that they are upset. Oprah Winfrey would be raising an eyebrow or two.

concretecamper said:
Instead of getting all sideways about what the Catholic Church claims, work harder on proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that your denomination is the Church Jesus was talking about.

Such arrogance.

concretecamper · Mar 8, 2021

Hmm said:
Such arrogance.

I can imagine the Pharisees feeling the same way about His disciples. Read the beginning of Acts.

Hmm said:
You seem to be obsessed with telling people they are upset. Oprah Winfrey would be raising an eyebrow or two.

You proved my point

Hmm · Mar 8, 2021

concretecamper said:
Read the beginning of Acts.

Do you always issue commands to people like this?

Oprah will also be licking the tip of her pencil and reaching for her notepad to start jotting down comprehensive notes.

Strong in Him · Mar 8, 2021

concretecamper said:
Are you more upset with the fact that your denomination doesn't have the hutzpah to claim they are the one true Church?

No, it doesn't have the arrogance to claim that it is the one true church.
THE church is all believers - and it is not possible for someone who is born again, a chid of God and one of his followers to be in his church while someone else, also born again etc, is outside it.

Like it or not, you are not the only ones, nor do you have any kind of Spiritual favouritism with God.
That's just how it is.

98cwitr · Mar 8, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

What if indeed....

1 John 3:6-10

Hebrews 10:26

1 John 5:18

Valletta · Mar 8, 2021

Strong in Him said:
No, it doesn't have the arrogance to claim that it is the one true church.
THE church is all believers - and it is not possible for someone who is born again, a chid of God and one of his followers to be in his church while someone else, also born again etc, is outside it.

Like it or not, you are not the only ones, nor do you have any kind of Spiritual favouritism with God.
That's just how it is.

We are born again through the sacrament of Baptism.

PuerAzaelis · Mar 8, 2021

Is there absolutely anything of interest in GT besides Catholicism versus Protestantism?

Strong in Him · Mar 8, 2021

Valletta said:
We are born again through the sacrament of Baptism.

We are born again through the Holy Spirit - who convicts us of sin, leads us to Jesus to receive forgiveness and eternal life, and who assures us that we are children of God. When we have received Christ and are IN Christ, we become new creations, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Baptism is an outward sign that we have new life; we have already died to sin and been raised to life. We do not get baptised so that that will then happen. That would be a condition; God saying "I'll give you new life IF ....."

Valletta · Mar 8, 2021

Strong in Him said:
We are born again through the Holy Spirit - who convicts us of sin, leads us to Jesus to receive forgiveness and eternal life, and who assures us that we are children of God. When we have received Christ and are IN Christ, we become new creations, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Baptism is an outward sign that we have new life; we have already died to sin and been raised to life. We do not get baptised so that that will then happen. That would be a condition; God saying "I'll give you new life IF ....."

We are also saved through the sacrament of Baptism.

concretecamper · Mar 8, 2021

Strong in Him said:
and it is not possible for someone who is born again, a chid of God and one of his followers to be in his church while someone else, also born again etc, is outside it

is this your opinion or are you stating fact? I figure I better ask. Anyway, Jesus disagrees with you.

Mat 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Strong in Him said:
We are born again through the Holy Spirit - who convicts us of sin, leads us to Jesus to receive forgiveness and eternal life, and who assures us that we are children of God

Is this you opinion or fact. I figure I better ask. Jesus and Peter (aka not a little pebble) disagree with you.

1Peter 3:20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. 3:21 Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

concretecamper · Mar 8, 2021

Hmm said:
Oprah will also be licking the tip of her pencil and reaching for her notepad to start jotting down comprehensive notes.

I bet you Whoopie and Joy are beside themselves too!!!!

The Liturgist · Mar 10, 2021

imge said:
I can’t believe you guys really buy into this stuff. God is the Rock, the church was meant to be based on the Word of God. His unchanged Word.
Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the Lord?
And who is a rock, except our God,

Proverbs 30 :5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

For my part, I am at a loss as to why you don’t understand that the Word of God is Jesus Christ, despite John 1 stating that explicitly. I also can’t believe that in an effort to refute Matthew 16:18, you quoted the Pharisees in Mark 2, as if their statement that only God can forgive sins somehow negates the statement of Christ Jesus that the authority to bind and loose has been delegated to His apostles.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 10, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I can’t believe you don’t understand that the Word of God is Jesus Christ, despite it saying that explicitly. I also can’t believe that in an effort to refute Matthew 16:18, you quoted the Pharisees in Mark 2, as if their statement that only God can forgive sins somehow negates the statement of Christ Jesus that the authority to bind and loose has been delegated to His apostles.

I think we are at point that I ask you not to respond to any of my posts. Because we don’t agree on something does not mean I do not understand. Our discussion are not fruitful, so I will not respond to yours either. Be well.

The Liturgist · Mar 10, 2021

PuerAzaelis said:
Is there absolutely anything of interest in GT besides Catholicism versus Protestantism?

It isn’t even Catholicism vs. Protestantism most of the time; a lot of arguments involve a vocal minority of Sabbatarians who are totally unlike the many ecumenically active Adventists I have known, who participate in interdenominational services and are an important part of the Christian community, attacking your church presumably because Ellen White wrote The Great Controversy and they feel obliged to follow in her footsteps.

But it doesn’t have to be this way. We can all post threads in General Theology, and we could change the tone in this forum dramatically by posting stimulating threads which have nothing to do with any of the present schisms, or which represent the concern of the majority of traditionalist members of CF.com from Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox traditions, about some of the insane things going on in the liberal mainline churches. I myself would like to post some threads about liturgics, and if I post them here, I might get a broader response than if I post in Traditional Theology.

PuerAzaelis · Mar 10, 2021

I suppose you are right

Perhaps it would be a little boring for everyone to admit that we all share the essentials

Then there would be very little to debate

The Liturgist · Mar 10, 2021

PuerAzaelis said:
I suppose you are right

Perhaps it would be a little boring for everyone to admit that we all share the essentials

Then there would be very little to debate

I don’t think it has to be boring. I find the polemics vexatious and annoying, particularly when people resort to really seriously flawed theology. We can make General Theology a more beautiful place, all we need are more beautiful threads.

I actually really liked the thread @imge posted on who our favorite pastors are.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 10, 2021

PuerAzaelis said:
I suppose you are right

Perhaps it would be a little boring for everyone to admit that we all share the essentials

Then there would be very little to debate

It’s not that, I have no issue discussing my point of view through scriptures and I am receptive to others POV through scripture. When it becomes personal and it’s no longer friendly discussions and we been down that road before, I think there comes a point where its no longer fruitful.

What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I stand with Candice.

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I stand with Candice.

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know

I stand with Candice.

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know

Great is thy faithfulness

Lord forgive me

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Great is thy faithfulness

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I stand with Candice.

I stand with Candice.

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