What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[Optimax]

Most take the ten commandments to be mostly "DONT'S".

Big dont's.

Not only Big Dont's but with an unsaid from God "and if you do".

The "if you do" also unsaid is that God will;

Burn down you house and/or barn.
Kill you kids.
Make you sick to teach you something.
Some other calamity.

What God intended for us to understand about them is this.

For instance:

The one that says "Do not steal".

What God is saying is "Look, you do not have to steal it!"

"Believe Me and I will provide one for you."

How about the one that says "Do not commit adultery".

What God is saying is "Look you do not have to commit adultery!"

"Believe Me and I will provide one just as pretty for you".

Get the Idea?

 

[VictorC]

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Wonderful! Are you carnal as the inspired author proclaims he is in the present tense? Doesn't this personal contrast to the Holiness of the Law explain why we have been delivered from it, as verse 6 in the immediate context announces?
Yes.
Ellen's 'sabbath test' is a myth.

 

[from scratch]

I am glad you qouted this. Then look and seen that the same law will be written on the heart not removed. Why would God place something in our hearts that He does not want the Holy Spirit to teach us or for us to keep?

...not according to... doesn't mean the same as. Sorry.

 

[from scratch]

He doesn't believe this..... just throws it out like he throws Paul's word to the wind when they don't agree with him.

He doesn't believe Moses either.

 

[VictorC]

I know well what custom means.

The use of 'custom' denotes an option exercised by the person.

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law, that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

This liberty Paul exercises to vacillate in and out of the Law isn't possible if he perceived it still retained jurisdiction over him. Jesus also exercised this option as the King Who is sovereign to the Law He created (Matthew 17:24-26), and Paul points out this same relationship as the Heir in Galatians 4:1.

 

[from scratch]

The laws given at Mount Sinai (what is popularly called the Mosaic laws) are usually divided into three categories: the ceremonial, the civil and the moral. The ceremonial laws are those which are connected with the Old Testament worship at the tabernacle and temple. They include those regulations concerning all types of animal and grain sacrifices and temple rituals performed by the Levitical priests. The civil laws are those which are particularly connected with the government and maintenance of the theocratic nation that Israel once was. As the civil laws of the theocratic nation of Israel, they were unique and applicable only to Israel—despite many who insist on implementing the ancient Jewish civil laws in modern non-theocratic nations. The uniqueness of these civil laws stems from the fact that Israel was a theocratic nation in which the state and the church were united. Thus we see in the Mosaic laws many penal codes imposing corporal punishments upon "religious" and moral offenses as well as criminal offenses. We also see provisions made for the executive branch of the government to oversee cultic practices and even to initiate religious reforms. Both the priesthood and the imperial court had the Mosaic laws as their common standards.
​

link: V13N1A3

I wonder if that church is dealing with an SDA invasion. The reason is I've never heard the Presbyterians divide the law into groups.

 

[VictorC]

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord

I am glad you qouted this. Then look and seen that the same law will be written on the heart not removed. Why would God place something in our hearts that He does not want the Holy Spirit to teach us or for us to keep?

Adventism demands leaving out the qualification that excludes the Mosaic covenant from God's "My law" He has placed into our hearts. It also leaves out the conclusion the inspired author of Hebrews 8:13 makes when he wrote In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Moving a broken covenant to another location doesn't make it 'new', any more than moving a broken chair from one corner to another effects repairs on the broken chair. The old chair is obsolete, ready to be disposed of.

 

[from scratch]

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
You know what custom mean? Even Jesus when every Sabbath to Church. You want a better example or is He good enough for you?

Jesus walked on water and spoke to the wind and it obeyed Him. Can or do you either of those things? Who is it you speak to and they are healed or delivered from demons? Best get to cracking.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
You know what custom mean? Even Jesus when every Sabbath to Church. You want a better example or is He good enough for you?

Custom does not equal command... customs are TRADITIONS and you yourself have said you don't go for traditions. Jesus was sent to the Jews why would he not take advantage of their customs (made by themselves) to try and convince them of things. Do you go to a Jewish synagog on Saturday? NO you don't... so you are not doing as Jesus did.

 

[Sophrosyne]

He doesn't believe Moses either.

Yes, he throws Moses words out when they conflict with his ideology too I've seen.

 

[Neogaia777]

I wonder how it would have "went" if instead of "thou shall not" do this or that, to "thou "should" not? I wonder?

I wonder this because the first thing human beings tend to "do" when you "tell" them you absolutely cannot "Do" something, their propensity is to want to do it, (or at least "try" it all the more) due to our rebellious nature, I wonder?

I wonder because (I think) the general consensus is that the Law was introduced to make sin abound, (so that grace could abound still more) but I wonder if they were turned into suggestions (and it was thoroughly "explained" to us that these "suggestions" were in/looking out for, our best interests) , instead of commands, if sin wouldn't have abounded as much or not?

 

[Sophrosyne]

I wonder how it would have "went" if instead of "thou shall not" do this or that, to "thou "should" not? I wonder?

I wonder this because the first thing human beings tend to "do" when you "tell" them you absolutely cannot "Do" something, their propensity is to want to do it, (or at least "try" it all the more) due to our rebellious nature, I wonder?

That is why you see Paul talking about how the Law INCREASED sin, as by telling someone what sin was it tempted people to do it. We can see that telling a child not to do something makes it more likely they will do it. I think God knew this all along and knew the only way to combat that type of thinking is to make punishment for breaking the Law very harsh... death.

 

[Neogaia777]

It's like having Children and making rules, and a Fathers way of handling it, versus maybe a patient Mothers way of handling it...

Say your kid (Tommy) (we'll call him) hits his brother (or sister) hard with a toy out of anger (wrath) and really hurts them and makes them cry... And let's say you have a "rule" "no hitting each other with blunt objects", Now a Father could get wrathful himself and angry and want to beat Tommy with a belt across his but, and maybe then put him in "time out" for a little while to make him think about it, and (the Father) saying to the boy (angrily) I told you no hitting your brother with blunt objects"

But Another approach (with the Mother maybe) would be to go to the boy and tell him, "Now remember I told that you "shouldn't" hit your brother or sister with blunt objects, especially out of anger, you know Jesus says that anyone who gets angry with their brother or sister is the same as wanting to kill them, and what if your brother or sister would have got seriously injured by your actions and wound up in the hospital and maybe even died, how would you feel then Tommy?" "Now what I want you to understand is that we made those rules for good reasons, and I'm asking you to trust in that" As I said how would you feel if your one act of an outburst of anger leading you to hit your brother, would have seriously injured him or even killed him... You'd feel pretty bad wouldn't you? And think of the pain and anguish that would have cost "us", your parents and your other brothers and sisters and your family in general...

All's I'm trying to tell you Tommy is that we made our "rules" for good reasons, and were asking you to trust in that, because your not yet old enough or mature enough to realize that our rules are to protect you and us, and everyone you love, now you "do" love your brothers and sisters don't you? (Tommy might say "Yes") and the mom might say and you really wouldn't want to seriously hurt or injure one of them would you? (And he might say "No") then the mom might say, so Please Tommy just "trust" in our rules, at least until your old enough and mature enough to understand them, OK? And please, don't do it again, can you promise me that Tommy, (and he might say OK, Mommy, I won't)

Now this doesn't gaurantee that it will never happen again, but my point is that "Dads" are usually more strict and want to immediately resort to punishment, whereas Moms are (generally) (in a traditional normal family anyways) are more likely to resort to explanations and sometimes making the child feel very "guilty" about what they've done, but hey, whatever works, it has to (after all) be handled somehow...

And you might go on to tell the child, that "Tommy, when you break our rules, that are meant for your (and our) own good, It could carry with it consequences that your just not ready or prepared for at such a young age to accept." "You could bring pain and anguish and suffering and guilt and shame and hurt, not only upon yourself, but with those you love, your friends or your family, so just "trust" us OK, Tommy, my dear boy, OK? (and he might say "OK, mommy")

I think all this amounts to, is fear the Father, and respect the mother, but really love and respect and admire them both, because both are just two different ways of looking out for our best interests...

 

[Sophrosyne]

It's like having Children and making rules, and a Fathers way of handling it, versus maybe a patient Mothers way of handling it...

God gave the 10 commandments not like a mother or father but like a king over the people as no mother or father would tell their children do not do this or I will have you killed (stoned to death). If we read all that happens all the way up to where the people (finally) are presented the 10 commandments we see fully grown adults acting like children being disobedient, ungrateful, belligerent, and even at times defiant. God had them wander the desert for 40 years so the worst of them would die off (older generation). The 10 commandments were the result of the attitude of Israel. To exalt the 10 commandments to some sort of greatness when in fact it was just an instrument to put severe boundaries on people that wouldn't stop sinning against God terribly such that he mandated death for breaking them.

I am just glad we are back to being seen as adults in Christ, not belligerent defiant children needing to be threatened with death for picking up sticks on a Sabbath day.

 

[squint]

That is why you see Paul talking about how the Law INCREASED sin, as by telling someone what sin was it tempted people to do it. We can see that telling a child not to do something makes it more likely they will do it. I think God knew this all along and knew the only way to combat that type of thinking is to make punishment for breaking the Law very harsh... death.

It's also why Israel as a nation experienced so many harsher realities of Gods Judgment.

The Word came to them. They became progressively wicked as a nation, were taken captive by Babylon, by Rome and eventually scattered into the world.

That was all a result of the Word coming to them.

It is no different with us. The last thing to do however is to cast His Words away.

The Law comes with the Divine Intent to kill the handlers. It appears to be very effective. It also turns most of the handlers into killers themselves in heart. And this fact is also reflected in Israel when they killed Jesus in the name of their God or the church of Rome killing heretics or Protestants killing heretics.

This kind of Pharisitical activity runs rampant in the churches. It has morphed into even worse actions today. Believers intentions to fry other believers alive forever or eternally kill other believers is just another morph of the factual evil in the hearts of the carriers of those kinds of messages and actions.

s

 

[Sophrosyne]

It's also why Israel as a nation experienced so many harsher realities of Gods Judgment.

The Word came to them. They became progressively wicked as a nation, were taken captive by Babylon, by Rome and eventually scattered into the world.

That was all a result of the Word coming to them.

It is no different with us. The last thing to do however is to cast His Words away.

The Law comes with the Divine Intent to kill the handlers. It appears to be very effective. It also turns most of the handlers into killers themselves in heart. And this fact is also reflected in Israel when they killed Jesus in the name of their God or the church of Rome killing heretics or Protestants killing heretics.

This kind of Pharisitical activity runs rampant in the churches. It has morphed into even worse actions today. Believers intentions to fry other believers alive forever or eternally kill other believers is just another morph of the factual evil in the hearts of the carriers of those kinds of messages and actions.

s

Truly the opposite of what Grace is about, as grace isn't by default interested in punishing sinners but encouraging them to seek God and in that turning away from sin doing so.

 

[Neogaia777]

God gave the 10 commandments not like a mother or father but like a king over the people as no mother or father would tell their children do not do this or I will have you killed (stoned to death). If we read all that happens all the way up to where the people (finally) are presented the 10 commandments we see fully grown adults acting like children being disobedient, ungrateful, belligerent, and even at times defiant. God had them wander the desert for 40 years so the worst of them would die off (older generation). The 10 commandments were the result of the attitude of Israel. To exalt the 10 commandments to some sort of greatness when in fact it was just an instrument to put severe boundaries on people that wouldn't stop sinning against God terribly such that he mandated death for breaking them.

I am just glad we are back to being seen as adults in Christ, not belligerent defiant children needing to be threatened with death for picking up sticks on a Sabbath day.

I know it says "God, the Father, doesn't "change" but I can't help but to think that he did, in the beginning it seems that God, the Father had the idea that "fear" and "wrath" would "keep them in-line, but that was proven and shown to only "work" temporarily, I'm just glad that Jesus Christ took upon his shoulders all the wrath of the Father for us, and so that he (the Father) seems to not be so strict, so wrathful with us today... But there's just one problem with this, it is said that God, the Father is "storing up" wrath for the great and mighty day of Judgment, so Jesus Christ may have just bought us "time" and the attitude of God, the Father really hasn't "changed" it's just been put on the back burner for a time, I don't know?

 

[squint]

Truly the opposite of what Grace is about, as grace isn't by default interested in punishing sinners but encouraging them to seek God and in that turning away from sin doing so.

Amen brother!

 

[Sophrosyne]

I know it says "God, the Father, doesn't "change" but I can't help but to think that he did, in the beginning it seems that God, the Father had the idea that "fear" and "wrath" would "keep them in-line, but that was proven and shown to only "work" temporarily, I'm just glad that Jesus Christ took upon his shoulders all the wrath of the Father for us, and so that he (the Father) seems to not be so strict, so wrathful with us today... But there's just one problem with this, it is said that God, the Father is "storing up" wrath for the great and mighty day of Judgment, so Jesus Christ may have just bought us "time" and the attitude of God, the Father really hasn't "changed" it's just been put on the back burner for a time, I don't know?

God doesn't change, but man's tendency toward sin and his sinfulness changed as more and more sin was in the world God's character (against sin) was drawn out (wrath). Without sin God has no wrath against it, lots of sin and God ends up punishing those who choose sin in defiance to God. The reason we don't see his wrath is because for the time being God has an invitation unto Jesus to avoid it entirely (God's wrath was satisfied for us via the cross). There will be a time (Revelation) that his wrath resumes.

 

[Neogaia777]

God doesn't change, but man's tendency toward sin and his sinfulness changed as more and more sin was in the world God's character (against sin) was drawn out (wrath). Without sin God has no wrath against it, lots of sin and God ends up punishing those who choose sin in defiance to God.

So, are you basically saying that God, the Father "is" "storing up wrath" and that basically we've all "got it coming" someday, (with maybe the exception of full-on, true believers in Christ, who might be able to be declared "exempt" from it, "escape" it)