What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[Elder 111]

I will like to know what have been our personal understanding of the Ten Commandments and they relationship in the work of salvation.
I believe that putting our believes to the test is useful to gaining a right perspective.
I have placed a poll where you can vote more than once according to what you have accepted/understood from scripture.
Maybe we can come to a consensus at the end of the exercise.

 

[from scratch]

I will like to know what have been our personal understanding of the Ten Commandments and they relationship in the work of salvation.
I believe that putting our believes to the test is useful to gaining a right perspective.
I have placed a poll where you can vote more than once according to what you have accepted/understood from scripture.
Maybe we can come to a consensus at the end of the exercise.

The issue isn't the principles of the Ten Commandments. You're arguing anyone who does the things the Ten Commandments requires is living by them. This idea is false and has been shown to you by illustration on several occasions. You still demand what is false. Why?

 

[Elder 111]

The issue isn't the principles of the Ten Commandments. You're arguing anyone who does the things the Ten Commandments requires is living by them. This idea is false and has been shown to you by illustration on several occasions. You still demand what is false. Why?

I have said no such thing in the OP. The principles of the Ten commandments is what is under discussion.
But let's take what your are saying into consideration. They is no problem with observing the principles of the Ten Commandments and doing so is not the same as living by what the Ten Commandments says.
That is the same as saying that you should drive within the speed limit but is not the same as observing the speed limit rules. Interesting.

 

[Frogster]

i suppose the question is...

why are commandments the center of one's existence, instead of a resurrected Christ?

 

[from scratch]

I have said no such thing in the OP. The principles of the Ten commandments is what is under discussion.
But let's take what your are saying into consideration. They is no problem with observing the principles of the Ten Commandments and doing so is not the same as living by what the Ten Commandments says.
That is the same as saying that you should drive within the speed limit but is not the same as observing the speed limit rules. Interesting.

There is no difference between observing and living by as your example shows.

 

[from scratch]

i suppose the question is...

why are commandments the center of one's existence, instead of a resurrected Christ?

Good point!

 

[Frogster]

Good point!

Thank you.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I will like to know what have been our personal understanding of the Ten Commandments and they relationship in the work of salvation.
I believe that putting our believes to the test is useful to gaining a right perspective.
I have placed a poll where you can vote more than once according to what you have accepted/understood from scripture.

There is no needed relationship between the Law and salvation for the believer. Salvation on our behalf is NOT a work that we participate in but a work that Jesus accomplished for us. So in other words the only relationship of the 10 commandments stop at Jesus and are finished upon the cross for believers in him. Those who wish to choose stone tablets over Jesus do so at their own risk because if your standard is the cross then you are saved if your standard is the 10 commandments there is no salvation for you in that.

 

[Elder 111]

There is no needed relationship between the Law and salvation for the believer. Salvation on our behalf is NOT a work that we participate in but a work that Jesus accomplished for us. So in other words the only relationship of the 10 commandments stop at Jesus and are finished upon the cross for believers in him. Those who wish to choose stone tablets over Jesus do so at their own risk because if your standard is the cross then you are saved if your standard is the 10 commandments there is no salvation for you in that.

1. What do you mean the Ten Commandments stop at Jesus?
2. Note we are talking about the principles of the Ten Commandments. Are you also saying that the principles of the Ten Commandments are works?
3. Jesus is God (John 1). God gave the Ten commandments. Jesus died on the cross. So are you saying that to look at what Jesus/God did on stone is to not choose what He did on the cross? Is not all of God?

 

[from scratch]

1. What do you mean the Ten Commandments stop at Jesus?
2. Note we are talking about the principles of the Ten Commandments. Are you also saying that the principles of the Ten Commandments are works?
3. Jesus is God (John 1). God gave the Ten commandments. Jesus died on the cross. So are you saying that to look at what Jesus/God did on stone is to choose What He did the cross? Is not all of God?

Are you saying sin stopped? Is the law capable of doing this? Not according to Rom 8.

Aren't the principles IYO meant to stop sin?

Jesus did no such thing according to -

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus did nothing on stone. To say so is to deny the trinity. Jesus isn't God the Father.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[Sophrosyne]

1. What do you mean the Ten Commandments stop at Jesus?

1. Why did Jesus keep the Law was it for his own sake?

   [*]Note we are talking about the principles of the Ten Commandments. Are you also saying that the principles of the Ten Commandments are works?

   If you have to do something like keep a Sabbath then it is work. One cannot keep the Sabbath according to the Law in their mind only and not be sinning according to it.
   

   [*] Jesus is God (John 1). God gave the Ten commandments. Jesus died on the cross. So are you saying that to look at what Jesus/God did on stone is to choose What He did the cross? Is not all of God?

God is a trinity, you haven't proven if Jesus only gave the 10 Commandments or they were issued by the Father or what. In the New Testament Jesus does the will of the Father and there is a separation of the Fathers commandments and Jesus Commandments and so far in 10s of thousands of posts I have seen no law promoter tell me which commandments are which and why there is a distinction made.
Jesus had no need to keep the commandments to be righteous, he kept them to fulfill all of man's obligation of the Law to God. In other words Jesus abolished the Law by keeping it perfectly and not needing to do so and those accepting his perfection of Lawkeeping are considered righteous. If they decide Jesus' perfect record of keeping the 10 commandments isn't good enough and they instead have to keep it for themselves then they can forfeit Jesus righteousness for their own.

 

[Elder 111]

Are you saying sin stopped? Is the law capable of doing this? Not according to Rom 8.

Aren't the principles IYO meant to stop sin?

Jesus did no such thing according to -

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus did nothing on stone. To say so is to deny the trinity. Jesus isn't God the Father.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Can we separate what God the Father is and stands for from what Jesus is and stands for? I and my Father are one, Jesus said. Show us the Father Phillip asked, what did Jesus reply? What does John 1 say. Is God the Father for the Ten Commandments and Jesus got His own set of Commandments? Explain!

 

[Emmy]

Dear Elder111. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and
great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Then Jesus tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Here is what I understand:" Those Two Commandments contain all what we are told in the Ten Commandments." Jesus was making it simpler for us to understand and to remember. In Matthew 37: we are told by the Expositor`s New Testament: " This is the foundation of all the Law, and as well, applies to the present Day of Grace."

 

[Emmy]

Dear Elder111. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and
great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Then Jesus tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Here is what I understand:" Those Two Commandments contain all what we are told in the Ten Commandments." Jesus was making it simpler for us to understand and to remember. In Matthew 37: we are told by the Expositor`s New Testament: " This is the foundation of all the Law, and as well, applies to the present Day of Grace."
God is Love, and God wants our love freely given: Love God with all our being, and love our neighbour as we love ourselves: all we say or do, all we advice or stand for, SHOULD BE FROM LOVE AND COMPASSION.
I say this in love, Elder. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[fhansen]

I have said no such thing in the OP. The principles of the Ten commandments is what is under discussion.
But let's take what your are saying into consideration. They is no problem with observing the principles of the Ten Commandments and doing so is not the same as living by what the Ten Commandments says.
That is the same as saying that you should drive within the speed limit but is not the same as observing the speed limit rules. Interesting.

It has to do with the reason you observe the speed limit. When under the law we obey due to fear of authority while when under grace we obey due to love of the authority, without reference to or even awareness of the law, as we've come to recognize its reality, righteousness, and the wisdom behind it for ourselves.

 

[from scratch]

1. Why did Jesus keep the Law was it for his own sake?If you have to do something like keep a Sabbath then it is work. One cannot keep the Sabbath according to the Law in their mind only and not be sinning according to it.
   

God is a trinity, you haven't proven if Jesus only gave the 10 Commandments or they were issued by the Father or what. In the New Testament Jesus does the will of the Father and there is a separation of the Fathers commandments and Jesus Commandments and so far in 10s of thousands of posts I have seen no law promoter tell me which commandments are which and why there is a distinction made.
Jesus had no need to keep the commandments to be righteous, he kept them to fulfill all of man's obligation of the Law to God. In other words Jesus abolished the Law by keeping it perfectly and not needing to do so and those accepting his perfection of Lawkeeping are considered righteous. If they decide Jesus' perfect record of keeping the 10 commandments isn't good enough and they instead have to keep it for themselves then they can forfeit Jesus righteousness for their own.

Well written!!!

Love your opening question!

 

[from scratch]

Can we separate what God the Father is and stands for from what Jesus is and stands for? I and my Father are one, Jesus said. Show us the Father Phillip asked, what did Jesus reply? What does John 1 say. Is God the Father for the Ten Commandments and Jesus got His own set of Commandments? Explain!

I have an idea. Why don't you put out a Bible that states exactly what you want leaving no escape avenues closing every loop hole.

If God the Father and God the Son were the exact same thing there would be no use for using those terms. Jesus didn't say I'm the Father. Jesus said very clearly My Father. This difference is also shown by others as in authors of the Bible. My commandments aren't the same thing as My Father's commandments. God the Father told Moses no man shall see My face and live. If it was Jesus who said such God is a liar and can't be trusted. The only other alternative is the Bible is a fraud conceived by men having nothing to do with what we call God.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Well written!!!

Love your opening question!

actually the question about why did Jesus keep... wasn't mine it just got messed up in quoting somehow. I think it is ironic that someone would ask us a question about Jesus keeping commandments and yet have NO clue as to why he would need to. It certainly isn't to be righteous as God is already righteous so he must have been keeping the commandments for OUR sake. This leads to a question: If Jesus kept them for our sake why are we keeping them? Is it for his sake? To me it is an attempt to duplicate an already perfect effort to obtain yet again salvation that was already won for us.
I consider it one-up manship.... trying to show God how good you are compared to Jesus.

 

[Elder 111]

Dear Elder111. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and
great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Then Jesus tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Here is what I understand:" Those Two Commandments contain all what we are told in the Ten Commandments." Jesus was making it simpler for us to understand and to remember. In Matthew 37: we are told by the Expositor`s New Testament: " This is the foundation of all the Law, and as well, applies to the present Day of Grace."
God is Love, and God wants our love freely given: Love God with all our being, and love our neighbour as we love ourselves: all we say or do, all we advice or stand for, SHOULD BE FROM LOVE AND COMPASSION.
I say this in love, Elder. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Sis Emmy,
Please note that the lawyer asked Jesus not for information but because he was testing Jesus. The answer Jesus gave was already know.
Deut. 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
It was not new. It was not meant to replace the Ten Commandments but showed the principle behind them.

 

[Elder 111]

1. Why did Jesus keep the Law was it for his own sake?If you have to do something like keep a Sabbath then it is work. One cannot keep the Sabbath according to the Law in their mind only and not be sinning according to it.

1. 
   Firstly we are talking about the principles of the Law. Can you leave out the Sabbath and deal with that please?

God is a trinity, you haven't proven if Jesus only gave the 10 Commandments or they were issued by the Father or what. In the New Testament Jesus does the will of the Father and there is a separation of the Fathers commandments and Jesus Commandments and so far in 10s of thousands of posts I have seen no law promoter tell me which commandments are which and why there is a distinction made.

Jesus said that He and His father are one. He told Phillip if he saw Him he see the Father. How come you are separating them? Obviously this oneness is in character and purpose. What the Father stands for so does Jesus. So how do you get one set of commands for the Father and one set for the Son? Do you realize too that you promote the idea here that the Son supersedes the Father in replacing His commands. Explain.

Jesus had no need to keep the commandments to be righteous, he kept them to fulfill all of man's obligation of the Law to God. In other words Jesus abolished the Law by keeping it perfectly and not needing to do so and those accepting his perfection of Lawkeeping are considered righteous. If they decide Jesus' perfect record of keeping the 10 commandments isn't good enough and they instead have to keep it for themselves then they can forfeit Jesus righteousness for their own.

So Jesus could have sinned and still be righteous? Because Jesus Kept the Ten commandments I don't have to keep them?