What Happens to us after we die?

[W2L]

Jesus said that spirits have no body .

Where does he say that?

 

[Riberra]

Where does he say that?

When the apostles saw Jesus after the resurrection.

Luke 24:37-39
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they beheld a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and wherefore do questionings arise in your heart?

39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.

 

[Quasar92]

Is this a biblical definition, or your own? If it's biblical, please show me.


The spirit leaves the body when we die, nobody's disputing that. The dispute is regarding the definition of "spirit".

Secondly, why are you separating spirit and soul with a slash as though they are two different words for the same thing, when in your previous sentence you defined the soul as one's personality?

Review 1 Cor.15:42-44.


Quasar92

 

[Riberra]

Yes, but your "spirit" is the breath of life. It's not some wispy ghostly thing with a consciousness.

1 Peter 3:19 should convince you that THE SPIRITS of DEAD PEOPLE(S) do have consciousness.

1 Peter 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

It's just simply "life". The original Hebrew word for "spirit" is and it means breath or wind

Ecclesiastes 12:7
the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

This verse seems to imply that our spirit goes up to heaven when we die, but actually “spirit” here refers to the life that God breathed into man in Genesis 2:7. It’s the life that returns to God, because life came from God.

Correct for the context defined by the Hebrew word Ruach ...when the physical body die, the breath of life [Ruach] return to God who gave it.
........
but 1 Peter 3:19 does not use the Hebrew word Ruach [breath of life].

PETER use a GREEK WORD and it is SPIRITS (plural]....it clearly say that Jesus PREACHED to the SPIRIT(S) of DEAD PEOPLE...that were captive in a particular place [in prison] ie -the place inside the Earth called Hades -

The Bible tell us that in HADES the SPIRITS of the good guys were in an area called Abraham's bosom while the SPIRITS of the bad guys are suffering in another section of that place called Hades ....[see the verses about the rich man and Lazarus]

 

[LastSeven]

1 Peter 3:19 should convince you that THE SPIRITS of DEAD PEOPLE(S) do have consciousness.

1 Peter 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

No it doesn't. That's a highly misunderstood passage.

PETER use a GREEK WORD and it is SPIRITS (plural]....it clearly say that Jesus PREACHED to the SPIRIT(S) of DEAD PEOPLE

Really? It says that he preached to "dead people"? It doesn't say that in my Bible.

...that were captive in a particular place [in prison] ie -the place inside the Earth called Hades -

Does your Bible say that they were kept in "a place inside the earth called hades"? Cause my Bible doesn't say that. You do realize that you're inserting your own words, right?

The Bible tell us that in HADES the SPIRITS of the good guys were in an area called Abraham's bosom while the SPIRITS of the bad guys are suffering in another section of that place called Hades ....[see the verses about the rich man and Lazarus]

Hades. Do you even know what that is? It's simply an "unseen place", where all the dead go, both the righteous and the wicked. It's not hell.

That parable you're talking about is also misunderstood. It has nothing to do with going to heaven or "hades". It's about the fact that the Jews did not recognize their Messiah and that therefore the kingdom will be given to the Gentiles. The pharisees to whom he was speaking understood that.

 

[LastSeven]

1 Peter 3:19 should convince you that THE SPIRITS of DEAD PEOPLE(S) do have consciousness.

If you believe that that passage proves that dead people do have consciousness then how do you reconcile that with Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

If they know nothing, how can they be conscious. And if they're conscious how can they know nothing?

 

[LastSeven]

Review 1 Cor.15:42-44.

I've read it a thousand times. Was there anything in particular you wanted to point out?

 

[BABerean2]

Yes, Jesus had a body after his resurrection but it was a spiritual body was it not?

He also ate with the disciples.

Luk 24:36　 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you."　
Luk 24:37　 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.　
Luk 24:38　 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?　
Luk 24:39　 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."　

In the verse above Christ made it plain that He was not just a spirit.
He said that He had flesh and bones.

Luk 24:40　 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.　
Luk 24:41　 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, "Have you any food here?"　
Luk 24:42　 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.　
Luk 24:43　 And He took it and ate in their presence.


　
1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Can the Old Testament verses that you provided erase what Jesus and Paul said above?

.

 

[LastSeven]

Can the Old Testament verses that you provided erase what Jesus and Paul said above?

Are they supposed to?

 

[Riberra]

If you believe that that passage proves that dead people do have consciousness

Tell us to which SPIRITS in prison Jesus have preached during the 3 days His body was in the grave ?

1 Peter 3:18-19

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

Tell us ,what and where is that prison ?

Hades. Do you even know what that is? It's simply an "unseen place", where all the dead go, both the righteous and the wicked. It's not hell.

"Unseen place" does not mean inexistent place !Note that i have never said that HADES is HELL.
,
In your reply you say that HADES is where ALL the DEAD,both the righteous and the wicked go ...

However you refuse to admit HADES is the place where Jesus preached to liberate [from that place] the SPIRITS of the righteous who died before Jesus sacrifice

You also refuse to admit that Jesus
in Luke 16:19-31 describe the place called Hades

The verses about the Rich Man and Lazarus refers to 2 individual who died in the time of Jesus and what have happened to them after their death ...do you agree with that ?

Luke 16:19-31
19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day: 20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the [crumbs] that fell from the rich man's table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.

23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Since Jesus sacrifice ALL the Spirits/ of those who die who have accepted Jesus as their Savior goes in the presence of Jesus in Heaven and upon arrival they are placed by God in a state of REST as in sleep [SLEEP IN CHRIST ] until the resurrection.At the resurrection we will receive a new immortal physical body to live on the EARTH.

 

[BABerean2]

Are they supposed to?

They would have to if you are going to get your doctrine of "soul sleep" to work.


1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


.

 

[LastSeven]

Tell us to which SPIRITS in prison Jesus have preached during the 3 days His body was in the grave ?

1 Peter 3:18-19

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

Tell us ,what and where is that prison ?


"Unseen place" does not mean inexistent place !Note that i have never said that HADES is HELL.
,
In your reply you say that HADES is where ALL the DEAD,both the righteous and the wicked go ...

Hades is not a physical place, just like "sleep" is not a physical place but you can still "go" to both places. When one dies they are said to be in Hades. Just like being asleep is a state of being, in the same way being in Hades is a state of being.

However you refuse to admit HADES is the place where Jesus preached to liberate [from that place] the SPIRITS of the righteous who died before Jesus sacrifice

You also refuse to admit that Jesus
in Luke 16:19-31 describe the place called Hades

Jesus was put to death, but made alive by the Spirit. This spirit is the breath of God, which made him alive again. The spirit (breath) of God resurrected Jesus. And by this resurrection he “went and preached unto the spirits in prison”. The spirits in prison were lives that could not be resurrected because they died before Jesus, but by His resurrection now these other lives which had been lost before Him are able to partake in the resurrection. These were not entities in a literal prison. The prison was that from which Jesus has set us all free. The prison of sin. So it is “by the spirit” (by his resurrection) that the lives that were lost to sin previously, are now able to be freed.

The verses about the Rich Man and Lazarus refers to 2 individual who died in the time of Jesus and what have happened to them after their death ...do you agree with that ?

That is an obvious parable because nobody in heaven would be able to see people being tormented in hell. Furthermore, nobody in hell would be able to talk to those in heaven, while simultaneously being in agony because they're burning. And do you really think a single drop of water would make him feel better? No, this entire parable was meant to make a point about the kingdom. The rich man represents Israel, and the beggar represents the Gentiles.

This page has a great explanation of it, if you care: Merciful Truth : Lazarus & The Rich Man

 

[LastSeven]

They would have to if you are going to get your doctrine of "soul sleep" to work.


1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


.

I don't see what the problem is. Maybe it's too early in the morning for me but you're gonna have to be more specific.

 

[Riberra]

That is an obvious parable because nobody in heaven would be able to see people being tormented in hell.

-Abraham's bosom cited in Luke 16:19-31 was not a reference to people in Heaven.

No, this entire parable was meant to make a point about the kingdom. The rich man represents Israel, and the beggar represents the Gentiles.

Usually, when Jesus talked in parable He said that it was a parable and explained the reason why he talked in parable to certain group of people.

LAZARUS was not a GENTILE he was a JEW.

This page has a great explanation of it, if you care: Merciful Truth : Lazarus & The Rich Man

Now we know from where you get your interpretation.

It is clear from the Bible that the reason the rich man was not in Abraham's bosom like Abraham and Lazarus is because the rich man hath no faith in God...

 

[BABerean2]

I don't see what the problem is. Maybe it's too early in the morning for me but you're gonna have to be more specific.

Others who follow the "soul sleep" doctrine of Ellen G. White or Charles T. Russell often have the same problem of seeing what is plainly written in God's Word.

Error often begets error.


Mat_10:28　 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

.

 

[LastSeven]

Abraham's bosom cited in Luke 16:19-31 was not a reference to people in Heaven.

Then what is "Abraham's bosom" according to you?

 

[LastSeven]

Usually, when Jesus talked in parable He said that it was a parable and explained the reason why he talked in parable to certain group of people.

And usually when Jesus tells a story of fact, the facts actually make sense. Do you think anything in this story makes sense?

 

[LastSeven]

LAZARUS was not a GENTILE he was a JEW.

Where in the story does it say that this Lazarus is a Jew?

 

[LastSeven]

Others who follow the "soul sleep" doctrine of Ellen G. White or Charles T. Russell often have the same problem of seeing what is plainly written in God's Word.

Error often begets error.


Mat_10:28　 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


1Th_5:23　 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

.

Those nebulous scriptures can't cancel out the very clear scriptures I cited earlier. Nor can they cancel out common sense and logic which dictate that our destination is not determined until judgment day, and that we do not become spirits until resurrection day.

 

[Riberra]

Then what is "Abraham's bosom" according to you?

Where was located Abraham's bosom (?) should be a better question,..