• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Featured What Happens to us after we die?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single
    To begin with, there are a number of theories that can be found by vaious expositors as to what happens to us after we die, With that in mind, this one will come directly from what can be found in our Bible about it. The short of it is, there are only two groups: those who believe in Jesus Christ and those who do not, with the end result of all the former being given eternal life in heaven with the Lord, and all the latter spending all eternity in the lake of fire.

    1. We are told that our human bodies consist of a natural, mortal, perishable body, with a spirit and a soul, according to 1 Thes.5:23.

    2. An explanation as to what our souls are can be said to be our character, personality, emotions together with everything that makes each one of us a unique, one of a kind person. Our own personal identification, whether in our natural bodies or our coming glorified, spiritual bodies, as found in 1 Cor.15:44. According to Heb.4:12, our spirit/souls are an inseparable integral duo that only God can separate.

    3. Our spirits can be seen as the breath of life in us from God and the body for our souls. As recorded in Ecc.12:7, our natural bodies return to dust and our spirit [including our souls that are our personal identities.] return to God who gave them. Confirmed for all of us who belong to Jesus, in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and inferred in Phil.1:21-23, we go to be with Jesus in heaven, immediately following our natural bodies. For the spirit/souls of those who do not believe in Jesus/God, is revealed in His parable of Lazarus, a believer and the rich man, a non-believer, in Lk.16:19-31. The rich man is seen as going to Sheol/Hell immediately. Since the parable is a perfect profile of OT Sheol, all the righteous spirit/souls went there after the death of their bodies, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins, as recorded in Heb.10:4.. Until Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross for us all, and we now go immediately to be with Him in heaven as previously addressed above.

    4. When we die, and are raised, translated or resurrected, depending on the circumstances, we are changed, in a twinkling of an eye, from a natural, perishable, mortal body, to a spiritual, non-perishable, immortal body, as found in 1 Cor.15:44, 53-54. Which will all be explained throughout the following.
    5. Those who die are divided into two groups, those of us who belong to Jesus Christ, and those who do not believe in Jesus Christ, contrasted in Jn.3:16 and in Jn.3:18, as well as in Mt.25:46 and Dan.12:2. Which records the fact that our spirit/souls never die. Confirmed for those of us who belong to Christ and die in Him, as found in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and inferred in Phil.1:21-23, when our spirit/souls will be changed into our glorified spiritual bodies and we are raised to be with Jesus in heaven, immediately following the death of our natural bodies. In Jn.11:26, Jesus said, "...whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
    Later on, all those who previously died in Christ, are seen returning with Him from heaven, in 1 Thes.4:14, where they have been since the death of their natural body, confirming the immortality of our spirit/souls, when He comes for the rest of us who belong to Him, in verses 16-17. He will appear and we will all be caught up/raptured to meet the Lord, together with them in the clouds of the sky. Here, our bodies will be changed to the glorified spiritual bodies, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:52-54, and we will be translated to be with Jesus in the sky, where He then takes us to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. Keep in mind, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:50.

    6. We will now have a look at the disposition of all those who do not belong to the Lord and were not caught up to be with Him as His Church will be. But rather, will participate in the terrible Day of the Lord, the 70th Week of Daniel, the seven years of tribulation, which are all the same event. In Mt.24:21, Jesus said, "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again."
    In the absence of the Church Jesus will take to our Father in heaven with Him, God will place 144,000 Israelite evangelists on the earth together with two witnesses to preach the Gospel and to testify for the Lord, as recorded in Rev.7:1-8 and 11:3-6, who will bring a great multitude to the Lord as seen in the parenthetic Rev.7:9-17. Which is the very same group who are going to participate in the first resurrection, of Rev.20:4 and 6. They will all be martyrs, who will pay with their lives for their testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ, during the tribulation, slain by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns/nations allied to them. These are called tribulation saints and do not belong to the pre-trib raptured Church.

    7. The wedding takes place between the Lamb [Jesus] and His Bride [The Church] in Rev.19:7-9 and He returns to the earth in His second coming with His angels [In Mt.24:31] and His Church following Him in His armies from heaven [Rev.19:14]. Jesus will then lead us into the battle of Armageddon against the two beasts, who are the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns/nations allied to them. [Not to worry, our bodies will all be glorified and indestructable at that time]. The ten nation armies are destroyed and the two beasts are thrown into the lake of fire forever, according to Rev.19:17-20. Of an estimated 7 billion people who enter the seven year tribulation, there will only be 2.3 billion when it ends, as documented in Zech.13:8.

    8. After Satan is thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, the first resurrection will take place of all the tribulation martyred saints, who will be brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the raptured Church, [as seen in Rev.7:9-17] in Rev.20:4 and 6. They will emerge from their graves in their glorified bodies, visible, as Jesus was when He was resurrected, and will be made priests of God and of Christ and rule with Him for 1,000 years here on the earth while Satan is in the Abyss, as found in Rev.20:4 and 6..

    9. During Jesus Millennial Kingdom here on the earth, many more will be brought to the Lord [by the many priest who participated in the first resurrection], as well as those who survived the seven year tribulation, but did not receive Jesus as their Lord at that time. At the end of Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth, Satan is released and builds a huge army he will rebels against God's people with, around Jerusalem. God will destroy the army with fire from heaven, and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire forever, according to Rev.20:7-10.

    10. The second resurrection will take place then, when both believers and the wicked will come forth in their spiritual immortal bodies. Fulfilling Dan.12:2 and Jn.5:28-29 as well as Rev.20:15. The wicked, whose names are not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire forever, along with Death and Sheol/Hades/Hell. No more death! Then the end comes, and the present heaven and earth pass away and God will provide us a new heaven and earth fulfilling Rev.21:1.

    As seen in the above, every body will be changed in the above, from the perishable to the imperishable and from Mortal to the immortal, whether they are those who belong to Jesus Christ and spend all eternity in heaven, or the Godless and wicked who will spend all eternity in the lake of fire.
    You can all come visit me at: a deeper walk... - Home and if you would like to add your own comments to this article, please feel free to do so, @:



    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Haipule

    Haipule Well-Known Member

    681
    +424
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    For as long as I live: I do not know!
     
  3. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +4,518
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    After you die, you will find yourself in the middle of a busy street, thinking about a fleeting glimpse of a life you never lived.

    If death is mysterious enough, life is even more!
     
  4. Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

    Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 Active Member

    426
    +229
    Zimbabwe
    Christian
    Single
    4) Is wrong , we are not changed after we die , we wait for our bodies till the day of redemption as spirit with Lord ( Ephesians 4:30), which happens at the rapture of church .

    Other than that it's great post , not many people actually believe in things said here but they are true .

    In short :
    Everybody is eternal , you either have eternal life or eternal damnation for rejecting Christ , there is no between .
    First resurrection is rapture , then these who died during tribulation this is all first resurrection .
    First harvest (resurrection ) contains barley harvest ( first fruits ) , wheat harvest ( church ) and winepress harvest ( tribulation saints).
    Second resurrection is for people who go to Lake of Fire , they are resurrected from hell to be judged at Great White Throne Judgement ( after 1000 year Kingdom ) and go with thier bodys to eternal damnation in Lake of Fire after being pronounced guilty .
     
  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single
  6. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    We don't go to heaven when we die. We return to the dust of the earth.

    Ecclesiastes 3:20

    All go to the same place; all come from dust and to dust all will return.
     
  7. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single

    Ecc.12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."


    Quasar92
     
  8. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    +26,883
    Protestant
    Private
    US-Others
    I am glad you posted this verse!:) I remembered reading it but could not remember where I saw it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  9. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +569
    Christian
    But we are the dust, the soul that sineth, it shall die.

    The Spirit is not who we are, the Spirit is of God. If we went immediately to Heaven at death, there wouldn't need to be a resurrection. It would mean ALL spirits, good or bad, go to heaven at death.

    "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

    Ruach, the Hebrew word for spirit here, means "breath" or "wind" as well as "spirit" and a number of other things.

    First look at a verse explaining man's creation, then another passage about his death because of sin, and finally we will see how our verse fits into the process.

    "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [neshwamaw] of life; and man became a living soul."

    In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

    Now look at our passage. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [ruach] shall return unto God who gave it." To see that ruach, used here for "spirit," and neshwamaw, describing God's breath in human creation, are synonyms and to better understand the whole concept, we look at a statement by Job.

    "All the while my breath [neshwamaw] is in me, and the spirit [ruach] of God is in my nostrils; My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit. God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me."

    So our verse simply describes death as God had explained it in the curse after the fall of our first parents. It is a result of sin. The body decays to the dust it came from and the breath (or spirit) that had been given by God at creation, is simply withdrawn.

    Here's the bottom line, the quick way to understand it. It goes without saying.

    The passage is about all people, not just the righteous. If the spirit going to heaven meant the ascension of conscious souls, both the righteous and the wicked would go to heaven leaving no reason for redemption.

    The chapter ends with this: "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." (Eccl. 12:13, 14).

    Judgment was future for Solomon's readers (as it is for us). Even if only the righteous were to go to heaven at death, the action would make the judgment useless. There would be no significance for obedience as the "whole duty of man."

    Read more at this most excellent article:

    Spirits in Prison and the Spirit That Returns to God
     
  10. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    That "spirit" that returns to God is the breath of life.

    Let me ask you something. Do you believe that you will have consciousness when you die?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  11. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    Bingo. This simple argument absolutely destroys the concept of a conscious spirit that lives on after death. If we're living spirits when we die then we wouldn't need to be resurrected and transformed into spirits.
     
  12. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    +569
    Christian
    Well it feels good to agree with you on something.

    I'll just rejoice in the moment.
     
  13. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single

    The spirit/soul is an integral duo that only God can separate as recorded in Heb.4:12. The soul is the character, personality and everything else that make each one of us a one of a kind individual, our personal ID, whether in the natural human body, or the spiritual body, that is the body for the soul, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:44. The spirit/soul leaves the mortal body when it dies, as recorded in Lk.16:19-25; Rev.6:9 and 7:9-17, as well as in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and Ecc.12:7.


    Quasar82
     
  14. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single

    See my post #13. The spitit/soul returns to God in Ecc.12:7, it never remains in the body at physical death. That is called soul sleep, which is a heresy and non-scriprueal.


    Quasar92
     
  15. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single

    Review Lk.16:19-31; Rev.6:9-13 and Rev.7:9-17.


    Quasar92
     
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,999
    Christian
    Married

    Mat_10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


    1Co 3:16  Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 


    1Th_5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



    The doctrine of "soul sleep" is like all other false doctrines.
    It only works by ignoring the scripture, which proves it to be wrong.


    .
     
  17. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    Is this a biblical definition, or your own? If it's biblical, please show me.

    The spirit leaves the body when we die, nobody's disputing that. The dispute is regarding the definition of "spirit".

    Secondly, why are you separating spirit and soul with a slash as though they are two different words for the same thing, when in your previous sentence you defined the soul as one's personality?
     
  18. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    I'm not ignoring any scripture and the ones you posted do not prove it to be wrong at all. On the other hand to deny that we actually die upon death is definitely ignoring plain scripture.

    Like these for example:

    Genesis 3:19
    By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

    Job 7:21
    Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

    Job 14:10:12
    But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

    Psalm 115:17
    The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

    Psalm 146:4
    When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

    Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
    For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5
    For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

    Can you explain these? And can you explain the purpose of the resurrection if we are already living in heaven? And can you explain the purpose of the transformation if we are already spirits?

    How about these?

    Psalms 13:3
    Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

    1 Kings 2:10

    Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

    Can you also explain why Jesus described Lazarus' death as sleep? If, according to you, he was actually in heaven, why was there no mention of that in scripture?

    And what about these examples?

    Matthew 9:24
    He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

    Daniel 12:2
    Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

    Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

    Daniel 12:13
    As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

    If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest? Why did the angel not say instead, I’ll see you in heaven soon, or something to that effect?

    It’s because Daniel wasn’t going to heaven. He was going to the dust of the earth. Daniel is now dead. He is not in heaven. He’s dead in the dust of the earth and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.

    That is clear scripture that you have to ignore to believe we live on as spirits after death. In fact you would even have to ignore or change the meaning of the word "death" because if we live on as spirits then we don't actually die at all, do we? And if that's the case then that means Jesus didn't really die either, did he? And If Jesus did not die then as Paul would say "our faith is in vain".

    That's some pretty important scripture that you have to ignore in order to believe what you're claiming.
     
  19. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +1,002
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    I don't like the term "soul sleep" because it doesn't accurately describe what I believe. I don't believe that the soul sleeps. I believe that we cease to be souls when we die, because when our bodies received the breath of life (spirit) we became souls as it says in Genesis 2:7.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    That words used for "living soul" is "Nephesh" and that same word is used to describe all living creatures, as in Genesis 1:20.

    Genesis 1:20
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    When we die that breath of life leaves our bodies as in Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Ecclesiastes 12:7

    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    The word used through the old testament for spirit is the Hebrew word Ruach ר֫וּחַ, which can also be translated as “breath or wind”. In fact, this is how it is translated in various other verses including Genesis 7:15 and Psalm 104:29.

    Genesis 7:15
    Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life (ruach) in them came to Noah and entered the ark.

    Psalm 104:29
    When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath (ruach), they die and return to the dust.

    When God gave man life, it was his breath/wind/spirit which God gave. The spirit of God is life. And it’s this spirit, this life, that returns to God in Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit (ruach – life / breath) returns to God who gave it.

    Other verses clearly explain that it is the spirit of God, or the breath of God, that has given us life.

    John 6:63 says The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

    Job 33:4 says The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    And don't tell me that's not scriptural because I just showed you the scriptures. I don't make up stuff in my own head. This is straight out of the scriptures, so this is about as scriptural as it gets.
     
  20. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Christian
    Single

    The explanation describing the spirit/soul is clearly delineated in my post #13. Where it is described as an integral duo that can only be separated by God, as recorded in Heb.4:12. That also explains why I placed the two together with a splice in between.


    Quasar92
     
Loading...