The spirit/soul is an integral duo that only God can separate as recorded in Heb.4:12. The soul is the character, personality and everything else that make each one of us a one of a kind individual, our personal ID, whether in the natural human body, or the spiritual body, that is the body for the soul, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:44. The spirit/soul leaves the mortal body when it dies, as recorded in Lk.16:19-25; Rev.6:9 and 7:9-17, as well as in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and Ecc.12:7.Quasar82
I'm sorry Quasar, I don't think you've got this one figured out yet. You can post all these verses, but they don't show me anything. This feels a lot like the rapture subject. You say the spirit/soul leaves the mortal body when it dies. But that can not be correct. The spirit is from God, it is not who we are. The spirit is from God, and the spirit returns TO God when we die. The soul can't leave the mortal body, that is impossible. The soul IS the mortal body. The soul that sins, IT shall die. The soul can DIE.
What the Big Dog said here is right, he took the words right out of my mouth.
I don't like the term "soul sleep" because it doesn't accurately describe what I believe. I don't believe that the soul sleeps. I believe that
we cease to be souls when we die, because when our bodies received the breath of life (spirit)
we became souls as it says in
Genesis 2:7.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
That words used for "living soul" is "Nephesh" and that same word is used to describe all living creatures, as in
Genesis 1:20.
Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
L7:
I don't like the term "soul sleep" because it doesn't accurately describe what I believe. I don't believe that the soul sleeps. I believe that we cease to be souls when we die, because when our bodies received the breath of life (spirit) we became souls as it says in
Genesis 2:7.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and
man became a living soul.
That words used for "living soul" is "Nephesh" and that same word is used to describe all living creatures, as in
Genesis 1:20.
Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving
creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
After reading the material in L7's note, can you understand how the soul that sineth, it shall die?
I don't think this is that big of an issue to argue about, nobody will fall through the Lord's Righteous Right Hand.
You listed Rev.6:9 in your repertoire of proof texts. I'll take a stab at that one in the interest of time. I have a knack for understanding the prophetic time periods.
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God under the altar and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to REST a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Beautiful scene, souls beneath the alter in Heaven's Temple. Or so we assume. But if God breathed into the man's nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul, how could living souls make their way beneath the alter in Heaven's Temple? The answer is that they did not. Not anymore so than Abel's blood cried out to the Lord from the ground.
In the earthly Temple there was a container to collect all the blood from the sacrifices at the alter of burnt offerings. That container was kept UNDER the alter. The earthly Temple was a copy of the real one in Heaven. So that's why the reference to the souls being UNDER the alter. But are they really all there in person, and will they really cry out in an audible voice at the 5th seal?
"And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.
If you believe that Abel's blood really did open it's mouth and cry out from the ground, then you can also believe that the souls of the dead can cry out from under the alter.
The voice of your brother’s blood crying out from the ground, is the same thing as the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God crying out from under the alter. This is a figure of speech, a literary technique called a personification. This is where an inanimate object is given the attributes or characteristics of a living person.
Real blood can't cry out from the ground, and the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God under the altar can not cry out in a literal and audible voice. This is just a very poetic method of mentioning the two groups of saints that will occupy two different prophetic time periods as martyrs. God has not forgotten the first group, their memory is crying out just as Abel's blood cried out from the ground.
The 5th seal message really is for the second group of saints that is before us now. While the first group must still "REST" a little longer.
"But go your way till the end. And you shall REST and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”
Dave Watchman "56"