What Happened to Magic?

miggles · Jan 28, 2020

VMaeLove said:
The Bible has many examples of people other than Jesus doing things that are seeming not possible today. Why is that do you think?

i'm not sure but i think God's magic is real and satan's is an illusion.

VMaeLove · Jan 28, 2020

miggles said:
i'm not sure but i think God's magic is real and satan's is an illusion.

I think I disagree. Satans power can be very real.

Thankfully he is a chump comparing to God

Cis.jd · Jan 28, 2020

there wasn't much science or understanding of certain things which is why it's likely the writers of the Bible thought certain things where real such as magic.

marineimaging · Jan 28, 2020

Miracles are not magic. Tricksters are not of Christ. I have been personally blessed by the miracles of our Lord and they are not illusions. Put them behind you and look to the Lord for your blessings.

Aussie Pete · Jan 28, 2020

JacksBratt said:
I agree.. It is very real... It is our nativity and ignorance that works against us.. So many "doubting Thomas's.

A good book to read, that is very real.. Is Prince of Vodou, Breaking the Chains by Heather Rae Rodin....

Another is "The Devil's Alphabet" by Kurt Koch. He covers every occult practice.

Kenny'sID · Jan 28, 2020

I think others that do it are hucksters and tricksters, at least for the most part.

I don't think God give the unbelieving any supernatural powers, way too dangerous... just that simple.

FutureAndAHope · Jan 28, 2020

VMaeLove said:
The Bible has many examples of people other than Jesus doing things that are seeming not possible today. Why is that do you think?

There is a distinction in the bible between magic, and miracles. Magic having it's origin in the devils power, and miracles coming from God, through prayer.

As a Christian I have seen quite a few miracles, things that could be said to be like magic, like healing, having visions that come to pass later. These things were all achieved through prayer in Jesus name. The bible warns us not to perform magic, or divination, yet it encourages us to pursue Spiritual gifts, miraculous signs that come from God.

As a example one of my friends daughter was healed of Ulcerated Colitis after prayer in Jesus name. God has in the past revealed to me things that have since come to pass, after being shown in visions.

VMaeLove · Jan 28, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
I think others that do it are hucksters and tricksters, at least for the most part.

I don't think God give the unbelieving any supernatural powers, way too dangerous... just that simple.

Do you think there is not supernatural power that is not of God? Even if it is not used good?

Kenny'sID · Jan 28, 2020

VMaeLove said:
Do you think there is not supernatural power that is not of God? Even if it is not used good?

I think God is the only giver of SN powers, and that he is very careful who he gives it to.

eleos1954 · Jan 28, 2020

solid_core said:
Satan was not cast out of heaven and defeated before Jesus' victory, so he had more power.

I disagree

Satan (Lucifer) was indeed cast out of heaven to the earth before Calvary.

In the book of Isaiah, who was around 700 years before Christ, Isaiah states quite plainly that he had been cast out of heaven.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Satan is a angel ... angels are a different type of created being with great powers. He (Lucifer) was the beginning of sin .... he sinned in heaven. He and 1/3 of his minions were cast to the earth after creation of man. Satan then deceived Eve who disobeyed God and Adam also disobeyed God and thus Adam gave up his kingship/dominion of earth .... giving it to Satan ... and sin entered the world through Adam & Eve.

So ... Satan was cast to the earth sometime after creation ... who knows how long Adam & Eve were living in a sinless world before that. We aren't given that information. I suspect not long.

Adam & Eve were deceived by Satan and thereby Adam forfeited his kingship/dominion over the earth ... handing it (dominion over the earth) to Satan and has been creating havoc here ever since.

Satan indeed was defeated by Jesus at the cross and final judgement is yet to come.

Mathetes66 · Jan 28, 2020

"There wasn't much science or understanding of certain things which is why it's likely the writers of the Bible thought certain things where real such as magic."

The writers of Scripture & the people KNEW the difference between miracles of the power of God vs the practice of magic arts/sorcery from demonic powers.

Acts 19:13-20 Now there were some itinerant Jewish exorcists who tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits. They would say, “I bind you by Jesus, whom Paul proclaims.” Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.

Eventually, one of the evil spirits answered them, “Jesus I know & I know about Paul, but who are you?”Then the man with the evil spirit jumped on them & overpowered them all. The attack was so violent that they ran out of the house naked & wounded.

This became known to all the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, and fear came over all of them. So the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing & disclosing their evil practices.

And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books & burned them in front of everyone. When the value of the books was calculated, it came to 50,000 {silver} drachmas. So the word of the Lord powerfully continued to spread & prevail.

JSRG · Jan 28, 2020

DennisTate said:
Good question.... I would suggest Goggling the name Evangelist John Ramirez if you don't mind finding the rather scary aspect to the answer to this.

This will get you started:

JOHN'S BIOGRAPHY

There have been plenty of people who claimed to have been Satanists with access to witchcraft, but were later exposed as frauds who just made it up to get money and attention, like Mike Warnke. Is there any particular reason I should give John Ramirez any more credence than I should those people?

Alistair_Wonderland · Jan 28, 2020

Okay, one problem with Christianity is that people always assume magic is bad. I concede, sorcery and stuff dealing with consorting with demons is bad, but magic defined as "miraculous events" is part of God's legacy.
As for people who weren't Christian having powers, keep in mind that we are children of God. In Greek mythology, that's called a demigod. And Jesus even said in John 14:12 "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

Magic isn't satanic, nor is it godly. It's supernatural. And people on both sides use it. Remember, Satan can create nothing, he can only use what God created and twist it for evil.

As for why it isn't possible today, well the answer is simple; we cannot see what we do not believe in. And while we say we believe in God, we deny that miracles still happen. If most people saw a person use telekinesis, they would say either that it's a trick or that it's the Devil. Few people give God credit for magic anymore. We can't see miracles because we don't believe in them. I mean, if people can believe the world is flat and find "evidence" to support it, then we certainly can find ways to explain away miracles.

Tone · Jan 28, 2020

I would say that magic is closely tied to word play, and think about just how much language has changed since "biblical days".

Mark Quayle · Jan 28, 2020

VMaeLove said:
The Bible has many examples of people other than Jesus doing things that are seeming not possible today. Why is that do you think?

Many magicians do things nowadays that seem impossible, but I'm guessing that's not what you are talking about.

For what it's worth, most outstanding and obvious miracles nowadays are poo-pood into quiet. I'm guessing miracles happen a lot more often than people realize.

It is a bit like demon possession and oppression, I think. It is not at all uncommon in backwards countries, but here it is called mental illness or it goes ignored by most people. On top of that, what use would Satan have to possess people if he gains no notoriety by it --no fear from the masses?

Tone · Jan 28, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
it is called mental illness

Yeah, this is kinda what I was getting at...we have re-worded things into a scientific framework or language.

So, all the magic now has scientific explanations. Looking up the etymology of the word "science" is also informative, and seeing how it relates to other words.

Mark Quayle · Jan 28, 2020

Tone said:
Yeah, this is kinda what I was getting at...we have re-worded things into a scientific framework or language.

So, all the magic now has scientific explanations. Looking up the etymology of the word "science" is also informative, and seeing how it relates to other words.

Kinda reminds me of debates about the existence of God. To argue with people who automatically reject the notion, I have to talk about First Cause, (and later on bring in the logical fact that First Cause has to be With Intent --a mechanical fact cannot be First Cause, because First Cause has to be self-existent.)

Kaon · Jan 28, 2020

Magic is defined by the manipulation of nature to bend toward one's own will - whether superficial or profound.

Everyone has practiced rudimentary magic via psionic means if they have ever tried to manipate another human into doing anything, for example. Some people (like politicians) do it very well, but this is still rudimentary magic.

The Most High does not "give out powers," but the Enemy has power of it's own, and it can freely give portions of its power to others. Practitioners of magic don't really care if individual humans believe in the art; belief is not required for the magic to work, which is why the argument of its existence is futility... eventually magical energy so flow again, and people will see for themselves.

Science has done well to keep most other facets of reality hidden, while religion distorts the rest. This is one of those "you really don't know unless you have experienced it" type of thing - like demons and the supernatural - despite BOTH being explicitly described and used in the canon. Christians, especially, do a disservice to their own protection by [pretending to] being skeptical of magic, when the entire faith is about a "mere 'mortal' Man" dying, and then resurrecting with His Unique spirit - something not even the greatest practitioner of magic has ever accomplished (the closest is necromancy and reanimation, not actual resurrection).

DamianWarS · Jan 28, 2020

VMaeLove said:
There are many examples of magic that was not evil too? People doing miracle things for good as well. I understand there is some thing like magic in the world now, but it does not seem the same? Good and evil.

I wonder why and when it changed. I have not found an answer in the Bible yet.

all supernatural powers are either for or against God. There are no ambivalent or agnostic supernatural powers (even if the "magician" is unaware of this). So if there is a display of magic that you've perceived as good but it has nothing to do with God then it is implicitly against God and regardless of its product it is evil and we shouldn't participate in such things.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2020

VMaeLove said:
The Bible has many examples of people other than Jesus doing things that are seeming not possible today. Why is that do you think?

Because Jesus was God, His ability to foster faith was extraordinary. Many peoples faith was healed as God saw fit to display. This passed to others as God choose. But with practiced doctors people can survive getting shot in the head. Surviving that is a miracle. I knew such a guy.

In other news:
Indian Man SURVIVES, After Being CUT IN HALF,

What Happened to Magic?

miggles

Selbst ist die Frau

Well-Known Member

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Just me

Selbst ist die Frau

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Well-Known Member

Follower of Isa Al Masih

The Librarian

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency