What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?

Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?

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LittleLambofJesus

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jgr said:
The United Nations is what is written?
Hi jgr,

Exactly what do you know about the United Nations, and exactly what is written about this entity? Do you know that hazardous material shipments WITHIN the continental United States are NOT controlled by the Department of Transportation (DOT), but are instead controlled by the United Nations. Do you also know how many United States possessions are also controlled under the United Nations "World Heritage Sites"?

If Lee Iococca wanted to restore and preserve the Statue of Liberty today, he would have to obtain PERMISSION from the United Nations.

Thanks,
DaDad
Do you believe NY is the City shown in Revelation?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Well, I won't be around for it anyway, and I could really care less whether they build one or not, as it won't be God's temple........
ha ha! Good point.
I mean why is it so wrong or bad to believe that it is 1st century Jerusalem shown in Revelation?
Other than that, I say let the Jews of today as it has 12 of their tribes mentioned.

Why would all the tribes of the earth be mourning morning when they see Jesus coming on the clouds in Revelation 1:7

2875. kopto kop'-to a primary verb; to "chop"; specially, to beat the breast in grief:--cut down, lament, mourn, (be-)wail. Compare the base of 5114


Matthew 24:30
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall be grieving/koyontai<2875>,

and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth shall be grieving/koyontai<2875> because of Him. Even so, Amen.


Revelation 18:9
and shalle be weeping over Her, and shall be grieving/koyontai<2875> themselves for Her, shall the kings of the earth, who with her did commit whoredom and did revel,

when they may see the smoke of her burning,
.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Is Jeremiah 51 talking about the literal city of Babylon or the mystery Babylon in Revelation?

Jeremiah 51:
6 “Flee from the midst of Babylon; let every one save his life!
Be not cut off in her punishment,
for this is the time of the Lord's vengeance, the repayment he is rendering her.
7 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord's hand, making all the earth drunken;
the nations drank of her wine;


63 When you finish reading this book, tie a stone to it and cast it into the midst of the Euphrates, 64 and say, ‘Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the disaster that I am bringing upon her, and they shall become exhausted.’”

Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

Revelation 18:
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone
and threw it into the sea, and said:
"With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again
 
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Mark51

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This "great city" is not literal. It is referring to symbolically, "Babylon the Great"-the "harlot." (Rev. 17:5, 15) This city is also so compared symbolically to the "woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast"-Rev. 17:3.

What symbolic entity could have a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"? (Rev. 17:18) It certainly is not human. Such "city," "woman," "harlot," or "Babylon the Great" is nothing other than the World Empire of False Religion.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus

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This "great city" is not literal. It is referring to symbolically, "Babylon the Great"-the "harlot." (Rev. 17:5, 15) This city is also so compared symbolically to the "woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast"-Rev. 17:3.

What symbolic entity could have a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"? (Rev. 17:18) It certainly is not human. Such "city," "woman," "harlot," or "Babylon the Great" is nothing other than the World Empire of False Religion.
Such "city," "woman," "harlot," or "Babylon the Great" is nothing other than the World Empire of False Religion.
Hello Mark. Could it be possible the 1st century Jerusalem was practicing a False Religion?

Rev 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but are falsifying<5574>—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

5574. pseudomai psyoo'-dom-ahee middle voice of an apparently primary verb; to utter an untruth or attempt to deceive by falsehood:--falsely, lie.
===================
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Partial Preterism at PreteristArchive.com,

William Patton : The Judgment of Jerusalem (1876)

"As the subject of the Lord's discourse was the destruction of the city and the temple, with the dissolution of the civil nationality of the Jews, and as all the other circumstances of the prophecy refer to these events, it is in keeping with unity to apply this prediction (son of man coming in clouds) to the same."

The ten chapters of this neat volume give an account, with the help of some plans and pictures, of the city and temple of Jerusalem in our Lord’s time; of his prediction concerning it; of the causes of the war, and the safety of the Christians; of “ the six signs,” “the trench about the city,” and the sufferings of the besieged; of its capture by the Romans, and the destruction of the temple; and of the “subsequent history of the Jews.” A leading object is to show the fulfilment of our Lord’s words in that terrible catastrophe as it is described to us principally by Josephus, and to impress the appropriate lessons."

I. THE CITY 11
II. THE TEMPLE 24
III. THE PREDICTION 44
IV. THE CAUSES OF THE WAR, AND THE SAFETY OF THE CHRISTIANS 54
V. THE SIX SIGNS 74
VI. THE TRENCH AROUND THE CITY 99
VII. THE SUFFERINGS OF THE BESIEGED JEWS 106
VIII. THE TAKING OF THE CITY 147
IX. THE TEMPLE DESTROYED 169
X. SUBSEQUENT HISTORY OF THE JEWS 195


In a work on the destruction of Jerusalem as fulfilling the predictions of Christ, there can be no originality either in the terms of the prophecy or the facts which illustrate their accomplishment. We are necessarily dependent upon the historians of the age for the incidents of the siege. They must tell us what took place in connection with the ruin of the city and the temple, -- what military power was employed, - who was the general in command, -- and when the campaign commenced and ended.

Among these contemporary historians Flavius Josephus holds the chief place. He was a Jew, a Pharisee, and a priest ; he was familiar with the holy city and all it surroundings ; he was well instructed in military affairs, and high in the confidence of the emperor, and Titus, the leader of the Roman forces. He was an eye-witness of, and perfectly acquainted with the circumstances of the siege. From the treasury of facts contained in his writings I have largely drawn. I have so collated, condensed, and arranged the statements as to make the account more concise, and easier to be understood. In many cases I have quoted directly from his Wars of the Jews, giving the references at the foot of the page. At other times I have given the substance of the detailed narrative, so condensed as to come within the space at my disposal, but retaining as far as possible the very words of the historian.

It gives me much pleasure to state that I have been much aided by the valuable work on the Prophecies by the Rev. Thomas Newton, Bishop of Bristol. I am also indebted the the Rev. Alexander Keith, D.D., for facts and authorities as recorded by him in The Evidence of Prophecy. To render my little volume more complete, I have gathered information from various authors, giving them credit in the body of the work. Whatever there is of originality will be found in the use made of facts and the lessons deduced from them.

With the prayer that the Divine blessing may accompany the perusal of this volume, which aims to commend Christ the Redeemer to the love and confidence of all men, I commend it to "Zion's friends and mine.".....................................
 
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Contenders Edge

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Jerusalem cannot be Babylon because:

1. Jerusalem is never called Babylon; not even figuratively, even when at its worst.

2. Jerusalem is guaranteed perpetual existence (Jer. 30:11) because it will be the place of God's throne on earth. Babylon is destined to everlasting destruction. (Rev. 18)

3. Babylon is destined to be the economic strength of the world before her final destruction. (Rev. 18)

Jerusalem was not an economic powerhouse before the last time it was made desolate and when it was made desolate, the nations of the world did not mourn. They will, however, mourn Babylon when she is destroyed again. (Rev. 18)

4. There is a Babylon who is made attractive and alluring to the nations of the world and seemingly in control of various world empires and powers, including the empire of the Anti-Christ which will rule over all the earth. (Rev. 17) This has never been the case with Jerusalem.
 
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BABerean2

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1. Jerusalem is never called Babylon; not even figuratively, even when at its worst.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


What church did Peter minister from?

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1Pe_5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

.
 
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Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


What church did Peter minister from?

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1Pe_5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

.


Peter ministered from Jerusalem to the churches he was addressing.
 
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BABerean2

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Peter ministered from Jerusalem to the churches he was addressing.


Why did Peter call it the church at Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13?


Scriptural proof that earthly Jerusalem is the harlot of Babylon in the Book of Revelation:



The source of truth for modern Orthodox Judaism is the Babylonian Talmud.

.
 
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Why did Peter call it the church at Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13?


Scriptural proof that earthly Jerusalem is the harlot of Babylon in the Book of Revelation:



The source of truth for modern Orthodox Judaism is the Babylonian Talmud.

.


Peter never called it the church at Babylon. Furthermore, Jerusalem has never bore the kind of control or influence over the earth as appears to be the case with Babylon, nor is she involved with the establishing the world empire of the coming Anti-Christ as this Babylon clearly is; all factors which are ignored by your cited source. Also, your cited source errs in claiming that the prophet Isaiah's words against Babylon was in reference to Jerusalem.

The prophets foretell of Jerusalem's eventual exaltation and perpetual existence whereas Babylon will be destroyed forever.

It must also be noted that when prophecies are made concerning a nation, city, or people, they are generally are not called out by figurative names, but are called out by their actual names. There is only one exception to this and that is in Revelation chapter 11 where Jerusalem is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, but that the two names are only figurative is made very clear by the writer. But never is Babylon ever used to describe Jerusalem in scripture, not even figuratively.

And adherence of the Jews to the Babylonian Talmud is much ado about nothing. It may be a man-made practice, but it proves nothing.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Contenders Edge said:
1. Jerusalem is never called Babylon; not even figuratively, even when at its worst.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

What church did Peter minister from?

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1Pe_5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

.
I would venture to guess the Church in Jerusalem/Judea. The NT never shows St Peter as ever having gone to Rome as that job was given to St Paul.
A few threads on that for those interested:

What is the evidence of Peter in Rome
Did the Apostle Peter Ever Go To Rome? Part I

===============================
That aside, Peter was sent to the circumcision group, which included the corrupt murderous Judean rulers in Jerusalem and Judea:

Act 2:14
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.
Act 8:14
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
Act 10:45
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Act 11:2
And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him,
Act 15:7
And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
Gal 1:18
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.
Gal 2:8
(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
Gal 2:14
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you[fn] compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
=============================
And Paul condemning those same ones and accusing them of killing our/their Lord Jesus:

1 Thessalonians 2
13 Because of this also, we — we do give thanks to God continually, that, having received the word of hearing from us of God, ye accepted, not the word of man, but as it is truly, the word of God, who also doth work in you who believe; 14 for ye became imitators, brethren, of the Assemblies of God that are in Judea in Christ Jesus, because such things ye suffered, even ye, from your own countrymen, as also they from the Jews, 15 who did both put to death the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and did persecute us, and God they are not pleasing, and to all men [are] contrary, 16 forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be being saved, into the fill up<378> their sins always, but the wrath comes upon them — to the end/uttermost<5056>!
=============================
And received their due recompense in 70AD as shown in Revelation 18:

Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lambkin! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” [Hosea 10:8 Luke 23:30]
=========================
Josephus writes about that event and corroborates it in Revelation.......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)

Thus awfully complete an ever, beyond example, were the calamities which befel the Jewish nation, and especially the city of Jerusalem. With what truth, then, did our LORD declare, that there should "be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be !" (Matt. xxiv. 21.) Such was the prediction : the language in which Josephus declares its fulfillment is an exact counterpart to it : "If the misfortunes," says he, " of all nations, from the beginning of the world, were compared with those which befel the Jews, they would appear far less in comparison ;" and again, "No other city ever suffered such thing's, as no other generation , from the beginning of the world, was ever more fruitful in wickedness." These were, indeed, "the days of vengeance," that all things which are written (especially by Moses, Joel, and Daniel,) might be fulfilled." Luke xxi. 22. Nor were the calamities of this ill-fated nation even now ended ; for there were still other places to subdue ; and our LORD had thus predicted, "wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together." (Matt. xxiv. 28.) After the destruction of Jerusalem seventeen hundred Jews who surrendered at Macherus were slain, and of fugitives not less than three thousand in the wood of Jardes. Titus having marched his army to Caesarea, he there, with great splendour, celebrated the birth-day of his brother Domitian ; and according to the barbarous manner of those times, punished many Jews in honour of it. The number who were burnt, and who fell by fighting with wild beasts, and in mutual combats, exceeded two thousand five hundred. At the siege of Massada, Eleazer, the commander, instigated the garrison to burn their stores, and to destroy first the women and children, and then themselves. Dreadful as it is to relate, this horrid design was executed. They were in number nine hundred and sixty. Ten were chosen to perform the bloody work : the rest sat 'on the ground,' and embracing their wives and children stretched out their necks to the sword : one was afterwards appointed to destroy the remaining nine, and then himself. The survivor, when he had looked round to see that all were slain, set fire to the place, and plugged his sword into his own bosom. Nevertheless less, two women and five children successfully concealed themselves, and witnessed the whole transaction.When the Romans advanced to the attack in the morning, one of the women gave them a distinct account of this melancholy affair, and struck them with amazement at the contempt of death which had been displayed by the Jews. After this event, if we except the transitory insurrection of the Sicarii, under Jonathan, all opposition on the part of the Jews every where ceased. It was the submission of impotence and despair. The peace that ensued was the effect of the direst necessity. The rich territory of Judea was converted into a desolate waste. Every where ruin and desolation presented itself to the solitary passenger, and a melancholy and death-like silence reigned over the whole region.

302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


Is Jerusalem 70 ad the great City in Revelation?

  1. Yes
    6 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. No
    14 vote(s)
    53.8%
  3. Maybe
    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  4. Never thought about it that way
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I don't know, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Why does it matter?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other [please explaine]
    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  8. It is Rome
    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  9. Hollywood
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%


 
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BABerean2

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Peter never called it the church at Babylon. Furthermore, Jerusalem has never bore the kind of control or influence over the earth as appears to be the case with Babylon, nor is she involved with the establishing the world empire of the coming Anti-Christ as this Babylon clearly is; all factors which are ignored by your cited source.


1Pe 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.




Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Your Rothschild conspiracy theory video:

Nazi-era inspired.

Communist sponsored.

Ilhan Omar approved.


That is what your source brings to mind, making Israel out to be the source of something that it is not.
 
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BABerean2

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That is what your source brings to mind, making Israel out to be the source of something that it is not.

The source is found below.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Contenders Edge said:
That is what your source brings to mind, making Israel out to be the source of something that it is not.
The source is found below.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.
Sounds like the makings of a good thread.
Fulfilled in 70AD Jerusalem/Judea....................

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

Acts 1:8
But ye will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and ye will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”



Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures be gathered together<4863>.

Revelation 11:
8 And their corpse/s<4430> shall lie in the street<4113> of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their corpse/s G4430 three days and an half,
and shall not suffer their corpses G4430 to be put in a tomb<3418>

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<1996>.'

Revelation 18:13
“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots,
and bodies<4983> and souls of men.


Revelation 19
17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]
 
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