What does it take to have salvation?

[gord44]

How does one say "God, I'm sorry.... I've sinned." Open your Bible to 1 John 1:9. Read that 3 or 4 times. God is faithful and just in forgiveness. When He hears each acknowledgement He "looks not at me --- He sees Jesus." I've been redeemed.

Cool. Kinda sounds like the Amida Buddha. He loves and cares for all humans and wants them all to be reborn in his Pureland after death.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would like to know if all of mainstream Christianity beleive the same requirements for salvation.

If there were, Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants wouldn't be debating it all the time, and among mainstream Protestants there wouldn't be debates between Calvinists, Arminians, and Lutherans.

In part the issue isn't just over "how is one saved" but even more fundamentally, "what is salvation".

In the Western churches the topic of salvation is further broken up into three concepts: justification, sanctification, and glorification. A frequent disagreement between Catholics and Protestants is over justification and sanctification, in Catholic theology justification and sanctification are understood to be the same thing; where Protestants typically understand these two be entirely distinct things.

The more one begins to address the finer details of soteriological views, usually the more disagreements one is going to see. What one will see agreement on, on a much broader scope, is that our salvation comes from God in and through Jesus Christ, and that apart from Christ there is no salvation; though if one begins to dissect what one means by "apart from Christ there is no salvation" one will notice different opinions: are only Christians saved because they have confessed Christ? or is their salvation in and through Christ for those outside of the Church or otherwise have not known or confessed Christ? Etc.

But that in and through Christ alone there is no salvation is a statement all mainstream Christians would agree on, and would agree that salvation comes from God, not ourselves; what all that means and how that works is where there is frequent disagreement.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

An authentic Christian cannot be identified as Roman Catholic or Southern Baptist or Lutheran or Methodist or whatever.

That might be what Winkenism teaches, but being a Winkenist isn't what makes one an "authentic Christian". I reject your Winkenist dogma.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[AllanV]

Cool. Kinda sounds like the Amida Buddha. He loves and cares for all humans and wants them all to be reborn in his Pureland after death.

Christianity is meant to be about being in the Pureland before death. When Jesus returns He is returning for His completed Holy Church.

 

[gord44]

Christianity is meant to be about being in the Pureland before death. When Jesus returns He is returning for His completed Holy Church.

Heck I was a Christian for 10 years and didn't seem like much of a Pureland to me. Prayers, boring scripture and church. Not my cup of tea good sir. I'll take the Nembutsu and a side of single malt scotch!

But to each their own! Never one to judge a man's path if it brings him peace.

 

[AllanV]

Heck I was a Christian for 10 years and didn't seem like much of a Pureland to me. Prayers, boring scripture and church. Not my cup of tea good sir. I'll take the Nembutal and a side of single malt scotch!

But to each their own! Never one to judge a man's path if it brings him peace.

The scripture says everyone goes their own way to their own hurt.

True, church can be likened to poison but the scotch gives the body organs a hard time and there is not much purity resulting from that spirit. Experience talking.

There is a Way into Holiness by purifying. The scriptures say purify yourself you double minded.
Some say, while Jesus is preached His cross is denied and experience says this is true.
The Apostle Paul noted this and was harsh in his condemnation of those who preached the alternate way.

 

[gord44]

I am not much into purity myself. It's overrated I find. I tried that path and found it kinda fake. Not saying it's the same for you good sir. Just my own experience.

 

[AllanV]

I am not much into purity myself. It's overrated I find. I tried that path and found it kinda fake. Not saying it's the same for you good sir. Just my own experience.

The goal is Love in the divine nature and God will energize the Love. If a person continues forward in the Spirit the hope is that immortality is the end result. This is a bit beyond the natural mind therefore there is a way to be transformed by the renewal of the mind.
This is what it takes to have salvation.

 

[Winken]

That might be what Winkenism teaches, but being a Winkenist isn't what makes one an "authentic Christian". I reject your Winkenist dogma.

-CryptoLutheran

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian outside of any denomination or organization, legal or otherwise. The Southern Baptist Convention does not a Christian make, nor does any other structure. The Body of Christ is Spiritual. Period.

It used to be sufficient to identify a Christian as such; however, the simplicity and majesty of that has been distorted. Other examples: It used to be sufficient to say "that is true." Now we add "very" true. It used to be sufficient to say "correct." Now we add "absolutely" correct.

Now we say "authentic Christian" in order to identify one who has been Spiritually rebirthed without identification with any religious organization. It is all of Grace.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A Christian is a Christian is a Christian outside of any denomination or organization, legal or otherwise. The Southern Baptist Convention does not a Christian make, nor does any other structure. The Body of Christ is Spiritual. Period.

It used to be sufficient to identify a Christian as such; however, the simplicity and majesty of that has been distorted. Other examples: It used to be sufficient to say "that is true." Now we add "very" true. It used to be sufficient to say "correct." Now we add "absolutely" correct.

Now we say "authentic Christian" in order to identify one who has been Spiritually rebirthed without identification with any religious organization. It is all of Grace.

Seems to me all you've done is replace the existing denominations and traditions with your own.

And here is how I'll prove it:

The new birth happens in the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, true or false?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Winken]

"Holy Baptism" is received at the precise split-second of confession of Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13; utterly Spiritual rebirth. That confession follows the ministry ("wooing") of the Holy Spirit, who provides the Faith for one to believe that God's Word is True. God offers to each of us eternal security in His Presence. "Eternal" begins at the salvation experience and continues uninterrupted, even as we gather together in the New Heaven and New Earth.

It is proof of inward grace offered and sustained by our Savior, not a rite, not a tradition.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"Holy Baptism" is received at the precise split-second of confession of Jesus as Savior, Romans 10:8-13, utterly Spiritual rebirth. That confession follows the ministry ("wooing") of the Holy Spirit, who provides the Faith for one to believe that God's Word is True. God offers to each of us eternal security in His Presence. "Eternal" begins at the salvation experience and continues uninterrupted, even as we gather together in the New Heaven and New Earth.

It is proof of an inward grace offered and sustained by our Savior, not a rite, not a tradition.

Then let me rephrase. This:

Is the new birth. Agree or disagree?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Winken]

Then let me rephrase. This:

Is the new birth. Agree or disagree?

-CryptoLutheran

Hebrew folk were immersed in anticipation of the arrival of the Messiah. They wanted to be prepared. Christians receive Jesus as Savior upon confession, Romans 10:8-13. One can be immersed in H2O, or sprinkled, if one wishes. It is not a requirement for salvation, not required for eternal life.

G'Nite --- be blessed!

(Sorry ....... the "Amen" smiley face isn't working at the moment)....

 

[smaneck]

It is not a requirement for salvation, not required for eternal life.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"

Mark 16:16.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hebrew folk were immersed in anticipation of the arrival of the Messiah. They wanted to be prepared. Christians receive Jesus as Savior upon confession, Romans 10:8-13. One can be immersed in H2O, or sprinkled, if one wishes. It is not a requirement for salvation, not required for eternal life.

G'Nite --- be blessed!

(Sorry ....... the "Amen" smiley face isn't working at the moment)....

And there we have it. As I said, all you're doing is replacing already existing denominations and traditions with your own. By asserting that Baptism [in water] is not only not the new birth, but additionally assigning it a position of total non-importance you are introducing your own doctrines and teachings and a new kind of Christianity.

Hence: Winkenism. What you are promoting is a Winken's brand of Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Robban]

The boundaries, limitations, are in the mind and heart but the spirit will lead a person through and beyond the usual residing place. When there is obedience to the Spirit then the old mind is lost and there is transformation and renewal into something that can not be usually comprehended. If followed with out turning back the divine nature is found and The Eternal God will energize the Love in it.

Or in the interlect, what we intake daily, all what we see, hear and experience.
Is there a filter in place?

The head is connected to the body by narrow channel,often called "neck"
but that is the back of the channel.
The channel therefore must be the throat.

What comes up from the heart, the left side, (pumpstation)
is from our natural/animal self,

That is where our natural/animal soul resides,
but we also have as part of our soul (Yechida/singularity)
a unity with it's source, the singular essence of G-d,
the essence of the soul of man is "literally a part of G-d above.

The Chassidic masters speak of two distinct souls that vitalize a human being,
"Animal soul" and a "G-dly soul"

Back to the "channel" it is narrow because only to allow that which is nourishing
for the G-dly soul.

On limitations, time is a tyrant, it waits for no one, it mocks us,
to be free we must first conquer time.
The answer is, our memory,
history becomes now,
but that is only half the answer,
what about the future?

We do not have a hope, we have a promise, promised by/through the prophets,
no need to hope when one is promised.

It is the second half, or final redemption, ISAIAH 10:32-12:6.
The end goal of Creation.



Was that tight enough traffic?

 

[AllanV]

Or in the interlect, what we intake daily, all what we see, hear and experience.
Is there a filter in place?

The head is connected to the body by narrow channel,often called "neck"
but that is the back of the channel.
The channel therefore must be the throat.

What comes up from the heart, the left side, (pumpstation)
is from our natural/animal self,

That is where our natural/animal soul resides,
but we also have as part of our soul (Yechida/singularity)
a unity with it's source, the singular essence of G-d,
the essence of the soul of man is "literally a part of G-d above.

The Chassidic masters speak of two distinct souls that vitalize a human being,
"Animal soul" and a "G-dly soul"

Back to the "channel" it is narrow because only to allow that which is nourishing
for the G-dly soul.

On limitations, time is a tyrant, it waits for no one, it mocks us,
to be free we must first conquer time.
The answer is, our memory,
history becomes now,
but that is only half the answer,
what about the future?

We do not have a hope, we have a promise, promised by/through the prophets,
no need to hope when one is promised.

It is the second half, or final redemption, ISAIAH 10:32-12:6.
The end goal of Creation.



Was that tight enough traffic?

I once owned a bus and it makes its own room.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. There are promises and they need to be believed.

I am being honest when I write that none of what is known on so called Spiritual matters has been learned from any other source than The Creator of this universe and Jesus who is alive and is a true ruler who has overcome Satan.
I dare not interpret and must not add to what has been shown. I do make mistakes because the words used may not be the best for the explanation. I have read scripture extensively but it is difficult because the words are not Spirit although they can be inspirational in an intellectual manner. Is it then the human spirit or the Holy Spirit?

Romans 10:17(NKJV)17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1(KJV)1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14King James Version (KJV)14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus lives.

The word is more than letters on a page because faith is in the power of creation. And the word was made flesh.
The Holy Spirit leads in a transformation and renewal in the mind

Romans 12:2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

To align own will with the will of God is a big transformation. The nature and sacrifice of Jesus was acceptable to God and he said His will and His Father's will are one.

2 Corinthians 5:17(NKJV)17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Romans 12:1 (KJV) 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Holy and acceptable to God is who Jesus is and any one who approaches God must be the same and Jesus will cover their sin by His sacrifice.

During a 3 week fast every effort was made to as it says in 2 Corinthians 10:5(KJV)5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2 Corinthians 4:2 but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Word of God deceitfully; but by manifesting the truth we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

The heart is deceitful and dishonesty is possibly not the correct word used in the scripture.

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV) 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
There needs to be a certain purity to believe in the heart deeply enough and there must be a clearing of the hardness on it.
Psalm 50:5 "Gather to me this consecrated people, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Satan's influence blocks the ability to break deeply enough and his demons must be expelled before hand. They are hidden in the usually acceptable personality traits with bad thoughts and habits with a temptation to act out.

Ephesians 3:19 “And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

There is a way into Holiness and it does not happen by claiming it as a right. God chooses and Jesus administers.

 

[Winken]

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"

Mark 16:16.

John 1:12, John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:47; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; John 20:31; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:31; Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22; Ephesians 1:7.

 

[Winken]

I once owned a bus and it makes its own room.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. There are promises and they need to be believed.

I am being honest when I write that none of what is known on so called Spiritual matters has been learned from any other source than The Creator of this universe and Jesus who is alive and is a true ruler who has overcome Satan.
I dare not interpret and must not add to what has been shown. I do make mistakes because the words used may not be the best for the explanation. I have read scripture extensively but it is difficult because the words are not Spirit although they can be inspirational in an intellectual manner. Is it then the human spirit or the Holy Spirit?

Romans 10:17(NKJV)17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 1(KJV)1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14King James Version (KJV)14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jesus lives.

The word is more than letters on a page because faith is in the power of creation. And the word was made flesh.
The Holy Spirit leads in a transformation and renewal in the mind

Romans 12:2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

To align own will with the will of God is a big transformation. The nature and sacrifice of Jesus was acceptable to God and he said His will and His Father's will are one.

2 Corinthians 5:17(NKJV)17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Romans 12:1 (KJV) 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Holy and acceptable to God is who Jesus is and any one who approaches God must be the same and Jesus will cover their sin by His sacrifice.

During a 3 week fast every effort was made to as it says in 2 Corinthians 10:5(KJV)5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2 Corinthians 4:2 but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Word of God deceitfully; but by manifesting the truth we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

The heart is deceitful and dishonesty is possibly not the correct word used in the scripture.

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV) 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
There needs to be a certain purity to believe in the heart deeply enough and there must be a clearing of the hardness on it.
Psalm 50:5 "Gather to me this consecrated people, who made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Satan's influence blocks the ability to break deeply enough and his demons must be expelled before hand. They are hidden in the usually acceptable personality traits with bad thoughts and habits with a temptation to act out.

Ephesians 3:19 “And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

There is a way into Holiness and it does not happen by claiming it as a right. God chooses and Jesus administers.

Thanks for your faithful commentary.

 

[Winken]

And there we have it. As I said, all you're doing is replacing already existing denominations and traditions with your own. By asserting that Baptism [in water] is not only not the new birth, but additionally assigning it a position of total non-importance you are introducing your own doctrines and teachings and a new kind of Christianity.

Hence: Winkenism. What you are promoting is a Winken's brand of Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

John 1:12, John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:47; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; John 20:31; Acts 10:43; Acts 13:39; Acts 16:31; Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22;Ephesians 1:7.