What does it take to have salvation?

[AllanV]

ent


Salvation may mean one thing for Christians.

For me salvation is redemption, the first was out of Egypt
the second will be at the coming of the Messiah,
Redemption, restoration of the Kingdom, salvation.

To Believe this is not the same as awaiting it to happen,
to await means, active eager anticipation,
for it will happen, though he may tarry,
nevertheless, I await.

It is good to get a little taste of the powers to come.

 

[LoAmmi]

Final death

Don't believe in this concept.

 

[AllanV]

Antibiotics, hygiene and other advances in medicine have done more to uplift mankind than prayers ever did, judging by child mortality rates within the last 150 years.
Modern condoms have combated the spread of STDs more thoroughly and effectively than the most restrictive morality with the harshest social or legal consequences for transgressions.
And modern agriculture has ended nearly ten thousand years of plight and suffering associated with an agricultural lifestyle, turning back-breaking labour, malnutrition and the constant risk of starvation into something that could easily be left behind in the past. (Hunger still exists, but it's the result of terrible economic systems, not scarcity of resources.)

Maybe that's why religious fundamentalism is so belligerently anti-modern: the old-timey religions just realize that they've outlived their purpose (i.e. making people feel better about their plight) if people can achieve some form of lasting contentment.

My background is engineering and what is seen is that there are more and more problems occurring that need a fix but there is no immediate answer or enough workers. Some businesses go bankrupt because the competency of the staff is no there.

You must be living in a comfortable space. Times are changing because the best times have gone. Antibiotics have a limited use because there are resistant organisms that have adapted.
The abortion rate is very high and probably exceeds child mortality.
Science says it has taken billions of years to be at this point in time but now the food chain is being modified in a decade or so. The environment is being loaded with compounds that do not break down. What will statistics show when more people are suffering digestive and health problems like cancer.

 

[AllanV]

Don't believe in this concept.

Don't believe in this reality.

 

[Robban]

The words "no mediator" came to my attention because a better word could be moderator of the power of God because too much would do damage. The mind of an immortal can be shown as a comparison to the natural mind and still be comprehended to some degree.

I was drawn by God into an experience with much knowledge and have since read the Bible and listened to preachers on different subjects. Much intellectualizing seems to diminish the freshness of experience.
If a person stood in one place in the middle of nowhere perhaps on a mountain top what is remaining?

I'm afraid I fell fast asleep behind the screen, I have not picked up all my marbles yet,
worst is, it is now midnight I am coffee thirsty and the words are jumping all over place,
I tried to focus my eyes and read your above post twice.
Will have another go later,
The breath of life from God makes a person a living soul. A chosen nation tested and true comes to mind.
But the chosen nation rejected the Son and this gave others access, not to be taken lightly though.

Israel comprising a single soul is a bit deeper but a culture is similar. The mind is set to operate within a certain expected decision making and conscience relevant to the predominant viewpoint. In the world culture emotions and natural responses coming into the mind via the senses are developed with the prospect of accident, illness and final death. The natural mind diminishes the power of God through fixtures and mind sets sometimes seen on the personality and the body then takes on a corruption in the fact the cells oxidize just as the earth environment does. There is the possibility of being immortal but it is well hidden.

There was one chosen nation who rejected Jesus and now others are grafted in and the goal is Love working on the inward parts energized by the Spirit of God with the hope of immortality in a future.
Jesus was a sacrifice who developed a mind and nature acceptable to God irrespective of culture and this represents the idea of a mediator, moderator, because to have the full power of God would be too much. The mind that Jesus thought from moderates the power of God enough that a Spirit lead creative act can take place within an individual. The new person is then actually of the same mind and thought process as Jesus.
It is to do with the inner workings of a person to end the conflict that comes from a hard heart and mind.

 

[com7fy8]

I would like to know if all of mainstream Christianity beleive the same requirements for salvation.

There is no "mainstream." Christianity is pure, exceptional, its roots and pathway solidly and straightforwardly laid out in Scripture.

I think what some people consider to be "mainstream" is the bigger and organized groups. And joining a group because of their ideas and practices can have the risk of doing a copy-cat culture thing.

In Ephesians 1:12 we have that "we" Christians "first trusted in Christ". And in the scriptures we have plenty about what is involved in trusting in Jesus and what comes as the result. One thing I think of, which does not seem to get much attention, is Hebrews 12:4-11 about how we need to actively seek our Father for His correction, and the results of how God corrects us.

I would also like to know how others who do not believe in Christianity's version of salvation then do you beleive that there is a salvation from the dead.

Christianity's version of eternal salvation is the only applicable version.

amen

The concept of "Salvation from the dead" is to me rather strange in that death itself can be a kind of liberation from the limitations of this life.

I would say Jesus has told us that dying can bring us to better than all we have in this life

However, in order to go on to better, after we leave this life, we need for Jesus to save us, first, in this world. Among other things, we need to be turned "from the power of Satan to God" > see Acts 26:18 > also, please consider Hebrews 2:14-15 with 1 John 4:18.

I can't conceptualize what I would need to be saved from, based on my experience of the world in my life.

saved from God's wrath,
saved from our sins,
saved from being slaves of Satan's power which includes how lusts for pleasure can be dominating and dictatorial and nasty reacting about not getting those pleasures,
and saved, then, from our own human nature which makes us available to Satan's power of lust and nasty reacting and then deeply suffering torment

We all qualify for the welfare of God's mercy

But let's say that you do have some compelling proof; I'm not really sure what I think of a God who is so readily excited to condemn most of the souls he created for not believing very specific things about him. It just doesn't jive with what seems like an eternal being.

In case you got this impression of God from talking with people and reading the Bible, I would say go back and see what you get now from the Bible. There is much more and better than what you have shown, here, that you have gotten. And if you talk with Christians, I know they will tell you a lot more than only that God does judge.

Death isn't the "enemy"..something to be feared or to be repulsed by.

Well, there is dying which means leaving this world. This does not have to be our enemy. But the deeper spiritual and emotional deadness of sin is a major problem . . . but not to be feared, but overcome through Jesus.

In the same way all whole look towards Christ on the cross for their salvation ( beleiving in Him) will be saved.

amen

 

[AllanV]

Ephesians 3:19(KJV)
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[Robban]

Nothing to answer with?

Is that in response to post 45?
If so you will have to click on "click to expand"
because something Went wrong.

 

[AllanV]

Is that in response to post 45?
If so you will have to click on "click to expand"
because something Went wrong.

I realize some prefer one sentence replies.

 

[LoAmmi]

Don't believe in this reality.

I see no reason to believe what you are claiming is a reality. I don't believe I need to be saved from something in that respect. Some vague hints in scriptures about being left in the grave, but hope that it won't happen.

 

[AllanV]

I see no reason to believe what you are claiming is a reality. I don't believe I need to be saved from something in that respect. Some vague hints in scriptures about being left in the grave, but hope that it won't happen.

It is really about experience.
An engineering work background is intense and by 24 an alternative presented it self in the form of some rural land. We lived there without power phone or distractions for a couple of years and then one day while doing some woodwork and reflecting on a dream an energizing happened in my body and my mind was opened up and taken beyond and deeper than where I usually thought.
Without that first experience and then others there would be nothing to say and nothing much could be known.
It is impossible to see any thing different from within own self except own life with experience although there may be quick glimpses that are drawn back from. What happened with me is I was drawn into the glimpse and stayed a while.

 

[Zoness]

"so that people are without excuse."

Again, your issue, not His.

*shrugs* no point in arguing with you I guess

 

[LoAmmi]

It is really about experience.
An engineering work background is intense and by 24 an alternative presented it self in the form of some rural land. We lived there without power phone or distractions for a couple of years and then one day while doing some woodwork and reflecting on a dream an energizing happened in my body and my mind was opened up and taken beyond and deeper than where I usually thought.
Without that first experience and then others there would be nothing to say and nothing much could be known.
It is impossible to see any thing different from within own self except own life with experience although there may be quick glimpses that are drawn back from. What happened with me is I was drawn into the glimpse and stayed a while.

Well, I can imagine your completely unrelatable experience that I doubt was genuinely what you think it was changed you.

 

[AllanV]

Well, I can imagine your completely unrelatable experience that I doubt was genuinely what you think it was changed you.

Many people tell me what was experienced in there view.
I realized there would be some problems relating what happened because it is impossible. The outward expression that is seen is being healed and general needs taken care of. There is a need to be receptive and not dead to any thing different.
A reeducation was taken because what is the mind exactly. Is it in the head only or do people bond with each other remotely? There has been a complete refocus after this first mind opening.
Technology was explored and things have been invented and built with the concepts shown in my mind and the fact existing technology is inefficient and costly.

 

[TreasureHunter12]

The desire for salvation is a feeling, an intuition, and it is fleeting at first. It cannot be recognized by the intellect. As soon as it is labeled or conceptualized, it leaves the domain of intuition and gets hijacked by beliefs and is lost. It presents itself most clearly during times of suffering. When I talk about the desire for salvation, it's different than when a religious person speaks of it since intuition is very different from intellectualization, or beliefs.

 

[AllanV]

The desire for salvation is a feeling, an intuition, and it is fleeting at first. It cannot be recognized by the intellect. As soon as it is labeled or conceptualized, it leaves the domain of intuition and gets hijacked by beliefs and is lost. It presents itself most clearly during times of suffering. When I talk about the desire for salvation, it's different than when a religious person speaks of it since intuition is very different from intellectualization, or beliefs.

Because most live in a comfortable life there is a need to induce the suffering.
There needs to be a strong wrestle in the mind and heart for the Spirit to lead into a deeper place.

 

[smaneck]

What will statistics show when more people are suffering digestive and health problems like cancer.

There are some cancers that are caused by the environment. Others, like cervical cancer can now be easily prevented. But what the statistics will show is that none of us is getting out of here alive.

 

[AllanV]

There are some cancers that are caused by the environment. Others, like cervical cancer can now be easily prevented. But what the statistics will show is that none of us is getting out of here alive.

God is a life giving Spirit and it follows that if this power is not active then there is potential for a depletion when interacting with other people.
It is noticed when listening to some people this depletion can occur. This includes preachers who hold a person's attention and then demand an intellect in the other mind comprehend what is being said.
There is a mind bonding that takes place and the prophet Samuel said rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. All mankind is rebellious therefore a low level form of witchcraft is taking place that it not realized as such.
The term hypnotic suggestion is used when explaining the behavior of teenagers.

When in the correct mental state God's presence will bring the life required for good health.

 

[AllanV]

The desire for salvation is a feeling, an intuition, and it is fleeting at first. It cannot be recognized by the intellect. As soon as it is labeled or conceptualized, it leaves the domain of intuition and gets hijacked by beliefs and is lost. It presents itself most clearly during times of suffering. When I talk about the desire for salvation, it's different than when a religious person speaks of it since intuition is very different from intellectualization, or beliefs.

What you say is correct because intellectualizing depletes. I would not usually be typing with the comprehension required for this reason.
The Bible relates that there is the Spirit and this is deactivated by the intellect where it follows the letter.
The fast produces a type of suffering and places the body in a position where it does not have the complete hold of the will.

 

[Robban]

The words "no mediator" came to my attention because a better word could be moderator of the power of God because too much would do damage. The mind of an immortal can be shown as a comparison to the natural mind and still be comprehended to some degree.

I was drawn by God into an experience with much knowledge and have since read the Bible and listened to preachers on different subjects. Much intellectualizing seems to diminish the freshness of experience.
If a person stood in one place in the middle of nowhere perhaps on a mountain top what is remaining?

The breath of life from God makes a person a living soul. A chosen nation tested and true comes to mind.
But the chosen nation rejected the Son and this gave others access, not to be taken lightly though.

Israel comprising a single soul is a bit deeper but a culture is similar. The mind is set to operate within a certain expected decision making and conscience relevant to the predominant viewpoint. In the world culture emotions and natural responses coming into the mind via the senses are developed with the prospect of accident, illness and final death. The natural mind diminishes the power of God through fixtures and mind sets sometimes seen on the personality and the body then takes on a corruption in the fact the cells oxidize just as the earth environment does. There is the possibility of being immortal but it is well hidden.

There was one chosen nation who rejected Jesus and now others are grafted in and the goal is Love working on the inward parts energized by the Spirit of God with the hope of immortality in a future.
Jesus was a sacrifice who developed a mind and nature acceptable to God irrespective of culture and this represents the idea of a mediator, moderator, because to have the full power of God would be too much. The mind that Jesus thought from moderates the power of God enough that a Spirit lead creative act can take place within an individual. The new person is then actually of the same mind and thought process as Jesus.
It is to do with the inner workings of a person to end the conflict that comes from a hard heart and mind.

What is there to say?
You are all over the map,
Where to begin.