What does God want in Christian churches?

[DeeR.]

I cannot read you mind. And after the famous literal foot washing, Jesus said "The World will know you are My disciples because of your unselfish divine love for one another." (my translation).

My friend reading my mind is not necessary. We are of One mind and Spirit and only need to be at one with the mind of Jesus and His Spirit to hear. Peace to you.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I empathize with your heart and feelings versus all that is wrong, but you are clearly troubled and should seek peace even while concerned and pray over these things in your heart. Focus less on the problems and more on the one who is already victorious over them & responsible for them, Who is Just and Gracious. We won already. Your concern and heart and prayers you are giving are much appreciated as is your Faith and service. Do not be overwhelmed by what you see or hear or experience, it is all finish, just continue to serve.

Wrong assumption. Read the last post I did. I get a lot of divine peace and joy everyday. It is due to my ministering or my Bible study tool developing (line upon line and precept upon precept in my ETRSFing. I only focus on what the Holy Spirit desires me to focus on. I spend plenty of time thinking about the Godhead. I need to listen more to conservative Christian music and less time to conservative radio talk shows and tv. Please pray for those changes to be made. But I need to eat dinner now.

 

[DeeR.]

And yet "the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" It's not about worshiping a piece of bread - a material thing. It's not about making statues and praying to them. Making crucifixes and kissing them. Such things are idolatry. And it's not about a material building or physical location, as Jesus said to the Samaritan woman.

"a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Dear friend, rather than assume that someone is caught up in an outward act and holds no understanding of the Spiritual meanings, ask questions, love listen and be gentle and kind first and foremost. If the outward acts were condemned or proof of someone merely being superficial Jesus never would have done them. Be kind and gentle with one another ... this is why so many should not presume to instruct others. Be at peace we are not enemies here. God's grace and blessings be upon you.

 

[DeeR.]

Wrong assumption. Read the last post I did. I get a lot of divine peace and joy everyday. It is due to my ministering or my Bible study tool developing (line upon line and precept upon precept in my ETRSFing. I only focus on what the Holy Spirit desires me to focus on. I spend plenty of time thinking about the Godhead. I need to listen more to conservative Christian music and less time to conservative radio talk shows and tv. Please pray for those changes to be made. But I need to eat dinner now.

I just want to say Bill that those changes are just a choice. Blessings to you my friend. If you know the good you ought to do, do it. It will make a difference.

 

[RDKirk]

If you turned up at my parish, saying you want to volunteer, we'd be delighted. I wonder if part of the problem was that you were trying to volunteer for "ministries" rather than becoming part of a worshipping community?

In a healthy congregation that's fulfilling the twin duties of making disciples and then training and caring for those disciples, a big pastoral task is determining where each member's gift lies and how it integrates into the congressional effort.

A lot of congregations lay that decision wholly upon the member to determine where to fit in, but that shouldn't be a one-way decision.

 

[Paidiske]

In a healthy congregation that's fulfilling the twin duties of making disciples and then training and caring for those disciples, a big pastoral task is determining where each member's gift lies and how it integrates into the congressional effort.

A lot of congregations lay that decision wholly upon the member to determine where to fit in, but that shouldn't be a one-way decision.

I agree. One of the things that worries me a lot in ministry is that I often ask people what their gifts are, and they can't tell me. It's almost as if we've built a culture where naming and owning your gifts is seen as somehow not the done thing; and so I have to work hard and keep reminding them that every single person has something to bring and a contribution to make.

 

[RDKirk]

I agree. One of the things that worries me a lot in ministry is that I often ask people what their gifts are, and they can't tell me. It's almost as if we've built a culture where naming and owning your gifts is seen as somehow not the done thing; and so I have to work hard and keep reminding them that every single person has something to bring and a contribution to make.

A pastor of a former congregation said, "Every member has a resource, every member has a need."

 

[bcbsr]

Dear friend, rather than assume that someone is caught up in an outward act and holds no understanding of the Spiritual meanings, ask questions, love listen and be gentle and kind first and foremost. If the outward acts were condemned or proof of someone merely being superficial Jesus never would have done them. Be kind and gentle with one another ... this is why so many should not presume to instruct others. Be at peace we are not enemies here. God's grace and blessings be upon you.

Why judge me for simply telling the truth? If you disagree with what I said, why not "ask questions" , why not practice what you preach. Why do you presume to instruct me?

 

[BibleloverBill]

I agree. One of the things that worries me a lot in ministry is that I often ask people what their gifts are, and they can't tell me. It's almost as if we've built a culture where naming and owning your gifts is seen as somehow not the done thing; and so I have to work hard and keep reminding them that every single person has something to bring and a contribution to make.

I have only seen 2 good spiritual gifts questionnaires. You might seek them. I think that Dr. Jeremiah's ministry sells such. Or you can compile the passages where the spiritual gifts and spiritual talents are mentioned in the New Testament.

 

[Paidiske]

Oh, I have that sort of resource (but thank you). It's getting to the point where using the resource would actually make a difference that's more of a challenge. Creating cultural change is much more than putting a questionnaire in front of people.

 

[BibleloverBill]

A pastor of a former congregation said, "Every member has a resource, every member has a need."

Some have said that they think a God-pleasing church should be to provide an infirmary for the spiritually and psychologically hurt. But Scripture doesn't really support that way of thinking.

 

[Paidiske]

We do need to be able to care for people's woundedness. But that's not our only function.

 

[BibleloverBill]

Oh, I have that sort of resource (but thank you). It's getting to the point where using the resource would actually make a difference that's more of a challenge. Creating cultural change is much more than putting a questionnaire in front of people.

I agree. The best advice I have heard is for the new believer to just try to do what he or she is spiritually interested in. Most Baptists believe that God gives only on spiritual gift or talent to each believer. But I have experienced all of the spiritual gifts, but my main spiritual gift and talent is thought-provoking teaching and I relay on the Holy Spirit for doing that because He is perfect. I make mistakes only when that connection is interrupted and later He helps me correct the mistakes. He is wonderful!

 

[BibleloverBill]

We do need to be able to care for people's woundedness. But that's not our only function.

I agree. But I have not met any pastor who really cares about helping the wounded.

 

[Paidiske]

Well, you've met me. So that's not true any more.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I empathize with your heart and feelings versus all that is wrong, but you are clearly troubled and should seek peace even while concerned and pray over these things in your heart. Focus less on the problems and more on the one who is already victorious over them & responsible for them, Who is Just and Gracious. We won already. Your concern and heart and prayers you are giving are much appreciated as is your Faith and service. Do not be overwhelmed by what you see or hear or experience, it is all finish, just continue to serve.

***I don't think that you can emphasize with me because you probably have not had any similar experiences that I have had in churches and romance. You might be able to sympathize. But you guessed completely wrong about me. The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and Abba Father know my "heart" and my feelings and my thinkings and time usage. Not you. I even know and have experienced God's best LOVE for marriage. Have you? And I know the Full Gospel including about the New Earth. Do you? Again stop making false assumptions. you are completely wrong about me. I started this thread to encourage others to determine what really pleases God in churches.

 

[BibleloverBill]

Well, you've met me. So that's not true any more.

ok, I will take your word for it. But you are way far in Australia. I have never cried for help, but I have requested some and received help from only 2 pastors. Most pastors have been spoiled, have pride and marriage problems, so it is hard for them to help hurting people. Have you read Dr. Jay E. Adams' and Dr. Wayne Mack's books? They are better than Dr. Narrimore's books, because he mainly relied on the secular anti-Christianity theories.

 

[DeeR.]

***I don't think that you can emphasize with me because you probably have not had any similar experiences that I have had in churches and romance. You might be able to sympathize. But you guessed completely wrong about me. The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and Abba Father know my "heart" and my feelings and my thinkings and time usage. Not you. I even know and have experienced God's best LOVE for marriage. Have you? And I know the Full Gospel including about the New Earth. Do you? Again stop making false assumptions. you are completely wrong about me. I started this thread to encourage others to determine what really pleases God in churches.

Why are you so accusatory judgemental and defensive? Nothing you refer to is meant that way by me, and If you feel as though I do not know you and what you think I am saying about you, why do you shoot back with what I do not know and experience and compare what I do not know with what you say you know? Such comparing is wrong. You are doing the same thing you accuse me of. I could answer all your questions, however, 'the spirit in which we are behaving' is the issue now, not these speculations. Your attitude toward other believers should be kind humble and gracious. Be at peace. I said empathize because I meant empathize, why would you question my empathy with no knowledge of what you are saying about my experience? There are no 'probables, as you say, or 'guesses'. I simply spoke to your tone and lack of gentleness etc.. Please do not create hypotheticals and judgements about hidden motives and experiences you know nothing about concerning others.

 

[DeeR.]

duplicate

 

[BibleloverBill]

I just want to say Bill that those changes are just a choice. Blessings to you my friend. If you know the good you ought to do, do it. It will make a difference.

I agree with this part of Calvinism: Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. I have shared that with thousands; also Romans 8 and Galatians 5:1-6:10.

For Proverbs 17:17, 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Friendship

(by Bill Stevenson)​

Note: This is my adaptation of the “A Friend” list (which I did not write). As you read it, think about you in relating to your spouse or, if you are not married, in relating to your best friend. I believe that only true Christians with Holy Spirit guidance (by living Proverbs 3:5-6) can eventually live it with the help of the Holy Spirit and God's Word.


>> >>> > As a Proverbs 17:17 Friend, I will try to....

A>>> Accept the other person as he or she is.

B>>> Believes in the other person.

C>>> Calls the other person just to say “Hi”.

D>>> Doesn’t give up on the other person.

E>>> Envisions the whole of the other person (even the unfinished parts).

F>>> Forgives the other person’s mistakes.

G>>> Gives to the other person unconditionally.

H>>> Helps the other person.

I>>> Invites the other person over.

J>>> Just enjoys “being” with the other person.

K>>> Keeps the other person close at “heart” by thinking thankfully of him or her often.

L>>> Loves the other person for who he or she is.

M>>> Makes a difference in the other person’s life.

N>>> Never judges the other person in a condemnatory way,

but appropriately teaches discerning right and wrong.

O>>> Offers the other person any needed support.

P>>> Picks the other person up by humor, encouraging, etc.

Q>>> Quiets the other person’s fears.

R>>> Raises the other person’s spirits.

S>>> Says nice things about the other person.

T>>> Tells the other person the truth when he or she needs to hear it.

U>>> Understands the other person.

V>>> Values the other person.

W>>> Walks beside the other person.

X>>> X-plains things the other person doesn’t understand.

Y>>> Yearns to maintain friendship with the other person.

Z>>> Zaps the other person back to reality (not verbally or physically violently).