What does Born Again mean?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Um, no....unrelated

 

[Behold]

Um, no....unrelated

Oh, its related.
Notice that the reason they are harmed is because they "obeyed not the Gospel".
The Gospel is totally related to that situation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Oh, its related.
Notice that the reason they are harmed is because they "obeyed not the Gospel".
The Gospel is totally related to that situation.

We were not discussing that...we were discussing "born again"

 

[ViaCrucis]

I guess if a person is deaf, they are just doomed to the lake of fire.

Well, fortunately sign language, writing, drawing, and other means of communication exist. Also,

Ephesians 5:26

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Then why, when many people hear, they do not believe. If a person receives faith from hearing. Thousands of people are hearing (sermons etc..)each day.

Because men prefer darkness over the light because their deeds are evil.
John 3:19

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

So our salvation depends on convincing our fallen, sinful reason of the truth of the Gospel story? Doesn't the Apostle say that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing? That God chose the foolish things of this world to confound the wise?

How are you going to convince fallen, sinful, human reason to believe in the foolishness of God?

The answer is you can't.

But the answer to my question is already there in Scripture, it's in Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 10:17.

Faith is a gift.

-CryptoLutheran

So explain this mysterious faith is a gift theology. How did God choose you to give you faith. So you could use the special God given faith to do what. What do you do with your special God given faith. You must have super ability to know, what?. Are you the only person who has been given this special faith or does God given this special faith to other people. Did you receive the special faith gift as a child, youth or adult.

 

[BBAS 64]

Hey Bill.

God does not concern himself with us keeping "statutes", as we are "not under the law, but under Grace".

Try to see Salvation from the perspective of the NT, where Jesus is found and the born again should be found studying.

Good Day, Behold

I agree we are not under law...

The NC language here in EZE is unmistakable what is you take of the verse as it relates to the NC?

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.


In Him,

Bill

 

[Jonaitis]

-
It means that, as an unbeliever, you have a nature that is sinful. It means that because Adam sinned, this caused a " lost position".., where he was no longer connected to God, spiritually.
And all who were born since Adam, have this same situation... this same spiritual condition.

Our nature, is our spiritual condition... and its UNRIGHTEOUS.
We have a dead spirit, ... dead in the sense that is not a part of God's HOLY Spirit.
God is "A" Spirit.....= Holy Spirit.
We are not holy, we are sinful, sinners, and lost. "Lost" means we are disconnected from the Holy Spirit of God.
How is this resolved? God gives us His Righteousness, and it becomes OURS.
"we are made the righteousness of GOD = IN CHRIST".
"The Gift of Righteousness".

Through our FAITH .... God BIRTHS our spirit into His, and we become "ONE" with God and Christ.
How does this happen? Thru the power of the Holy Spirit.... God literally puts His Righteousness in us, and we become it, and this creates a BIRTH in our Spirit, that connects us to God's Spirit. = Born again.
This is the "new birth", or the 2nd Birth, which creates us as a "new Creation" "In Christ".
This is how we are born again. = Jesus said : "You must be born again". John 3

What causes it?
"all that call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED". "Saved" means, justified in God's sight.
It means that the blood of Jesus is applied to us, which gives us a complete forgiveness that is eternal.
It causes us to be at peace with God, and it forever redeems us back into God's family.

You must first be born again before you believe the gospel.

It is putting the cart before the horse in saying those who have faith will be regenerated. A dead man cannot choose to live, just so that an unregenerate man choose to be regenerate. You must first have a changed heart, by the working operation of the Spirit under the preaching of the gospel, before you can come to Christ. It is a free gift requiring no part on man. I mean, why would Jesus compare regeneration with "birth" if it meant that we had to do something first? You didn't choose to be "born," and so you cannot choose to be "born again."

 

[ViaCrucis]

So explain this mysterious faith is a gift theology. How did God choose you to give you faith. So you could use the special God given faith to do what. What do you do with your special God given faith. You must have super ability to know, what?. Are you the only person who has been given this special faith or does God given this special faith to other people. Did you receive the special faith gift as a child, youth or adult.

If one believes in Christ they have been given faith. Faith comes extra nos, from outside ourselves, from God, in order that we might receive Christ's perfect work and trust in Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

If one believes in Christ they have been given faith. Faith comes extra nos, from outside ourselves, from God, in order that we might receive Christ's perfect work and trust in Him.

-CryptoLutheran

In the Bible it is stated this way, if a person believes in The Christ they are given Eternal Life.

Not sure where you get if a person believe in The Christ they are given faith.

that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the Bible it is stated this way, if a person believes in The Christ they are given Eternal Life.

Not sure where you get if a person believe in The Christ they are given faith.

If someone believes in Jesus, they have faith.

that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Yes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

If someone believes in Jesus, they have faith.



Yes.

-CryptoLutheran

Everyone is born with the ability to have faith, some use their faith to believe in Jesus for eternal life. Others use theirs to believe in budda, the islam god, no god (atheist), science, in history (that george washington was the 1st presodent), etc...

 

[ViaCrucis]

Everyone is born with the ability to have faith, some use their faith to believe in Jesus for eternal life. Others use theirs to believe in budda, the islam god, no god (atheist), science, in history (that george washington was the 1st presodent), etc...

You're confusing natural faith with saving faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

You're confusing natural faith with saving faith.

-CryptoLutheran

Well then that is why i am asking you to explain it.

Again i will ask, how did you receive your special faith from God, so you could use your special faith to believe.

Did God just pick you out of the blue.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well then that is why i am asking you to explain it.

Again i will ask, how did you receive your special faith from God, so you could use your special faith to believe.

Did God just pick you out of the blue.

God works through His Word and Sacraments. As already stated.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is ultimately going to end up being about the Crux Theologorum, the "Theologian's Cross" or the burden of the theologian.

Namely this:

Scripture teaches that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that as sinners we are totally and completely helpless, our works are worthless, and nothing we bring before God is of any saving value.

That is to say, on account of original sin human beings are entirely sinful. The Apostle is clear when he says that there is no one righteous, not even one, no one who does good, no one who seeks God, all have gone astray.

If this were all that were said, we'd all be helplessly lost without hope.

However, God in His mercy desires that all be saved, and so gave His only-begotten Son that whoever trusts in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Christ did not die only for some, but for all. Not just in potential, but objectively so. Christ did not die only for those who would believe in Him, Christ did not die only for the elect, Christ did not die only for a few--but for all. Everyone. Full stop.

But how does Christ's objective saving work come to me as an individual? It is for this reason that Christ called His Church to preach the Gospel and to make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

We cannot come to God, rather God comes to us.

God comes to us through His Word and Sacraments to work and create faith in us, and through this faith we are freely justified, with the perfect and finished work of Christ appropriated to us, and His righteousness imputed to us, thereby reckoning us righteous before God apart from our works. This is the righteousness apart from the law, the righteousness that is by faith.

Now for the Crux Theologorum:

Why are some saved and not others?

Why when some hear the Gospel are they converted by the Holy Spirit; but others refuse and reject it?

The Calvinist says it's because the elect are predestined and cannot refuse the irresistible grace of God, but the non-elect cannot be saved at all. Thus the elect will be saved because they cannot help but believe, and everyone else cannot believe for God did not will it to be.

I think this must be rejected as it perverts the Gospel, which is that Jesus Christ gave His life for all, without exception; and the Gospel is for everyone, without exception. For it is indeed the very will of God that everyone be saved, no exceptions.

The Arminian, on the other hand, says it is because the individual is free enough on account of a prevenient grace, so that the human will is able to choose righteousness and freely choose or reject Christ. Christ died for all who would come to Him freely by their own volition.

This too must be rejected, for it likewise denies the universality of Christ's work, and also because it credits man with his own salvation. The grace of God is reduced to merely something which empowers the natural abilities of man to choose and act righteous, and thereby be righteous by his merits.

Instead we must preach the Gospel clearly and purely: Christ died for all, and God wills that all be saved, and this is accomplished once and for all by Christ's finished work; and it is purely by the mercy of God working through His Means as He gave them that faith comes to us, and we are freely justified as a gift from God entirely apart from our own efforts.

We are saved by the work and grace of God alone.

By the same token, our damnation is our will and work alone.

The only reason anyone is saved is because of God's grace.
The only reason anyone is not saved is because of their sinful will.

Though this may not be satisfying to our human reason, it is nevertheless the truth.

If there is some hidden mystery further than this, God has not seen fit to explain it or reveal it to us, and so we should not try and explain what is not explained, or claim to know what we cannot know. But instead to confess the word of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

God works through His Word and Sacraments. As already stated.

-CryptoLutheran

That's sure looks like a non answer.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thats a spiritual baptism that you are confusing with the city water system supplied in a man-made tank.
You are not understanding that our "old man" is crucified with Christ and we are raised as a "new creation".
This is being born again, that is the spiritual baptism.

Also, are you familiar with the New Testament?
Have you heard of the Apostle Paul?
Well, this Apostle did more then just write 73% of the New Testament. He also gave to the body of Christ 99% of the "doctrine of the Church", including how to choose a pastor, how to treat your wife, how to understand the "9 Spiritual Gifts". He is also completely responsible for our understanding of the "Blood Atonement" , "justification by faith", and everything that is related to understanding "Salvation". "Grace", and "the Gift of Righteousness.

IN 2nd Peter, .. Peter, who had access to Paul's letters, that became the NT, said at that time that Paul's letters were SCRIPTURE. They were equal to the TORAH. And that is an Apostle talking about another Apostle's letters 2000 yrs ago. And these same became 73% of the NT and 99% of the Church Doctrine.
So, ViaCrucis, are you following me ?
What is my point?

Paul said this...."Christ sent me NOT TO WATER BAPTIZE".

So, how is it, that this apostle, who wrote most of the NT and everything we understand regarding the CROSS= does not accept your Theology of "water saves" "water regenerates".
Do you think Paul has it wrong?
= Better rethink your position.

Paul did think it was necessary to baptize the twelve men in Acts 19 so that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

See this verse ? This verse says that if you do good works you are "righteous".
So, we know this is not true, as "all our works are FILTHY RAGs".
We know that "not by works that we have done but according to God's MERCY He saved us".
We know...>"Grace through faith" without works, is how God offers "the GIFT of Righteousness".

See, you can't just blindly quote verses, 1213. You have to use scriptures to give context to other scriptures.

Salvation is a GIFT. "not of WORKS Lest any person will boast"

Our works are only filthy rags before we are justified because we are still stained with sin. After we are justified our works are pleasing to God because our sins have been cleansed.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If one believes in Christ they have been given faith. Faith comes extra nos, from outside ourselves, from God, in order that we might receive Christ's perfect work and trust in Him.

-CryptoLutheran

Then how can someone fail to abide in Christ as Jesus mentioned in John 15:1-10?