What does Born Again mean?

[Behold]

You have any scriptures stating this, i would be interested in finding out.

And i am not talking about being born into the family of God, I know that is true.

Born again, is not talking about being born again on earth out of your mother's womb a 2nd time, D tayloy.

Do the math.
Ive already explained it.

 

[Behold]

Why do you think Paul says what he says there? Because Baptism doesn't matter?

-CryptoLutheran

Im not going to hold you hand here.
What you need to do, is go and study the NT and find out why Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, told YOU that "Christ sent me not to WATER Baptize".

Go find out, ViaCruscis.

Let us know what you discover.
I already know.
Its time for you to find out. And once you do, then share it with your Church so that they can all find out, also.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What else does what say?
The verse?
The verse teaches that you are born on earth, and your mother's water breaks, and this is "born of water", on earth, pregnancy......natural birth.
Then Jesus says that you must have a 2nd birth.....a Spiritual Birth. BORN AGAIN.
"you must be BORN AGAIN">

So Jesus is saying that in order to be born again we first have to be born vaginally? So children born of a c-section can't be saved?

Why on earth would you believe that Jesus refers to the shedding of amniotic fluid, when it would have been plainly obvious to Nicodemus, a Jewish rabbi, that water meant water. Nicodemus should have immediately understood what Jesus was talking about, because conversion and new identity through the mikveh was plain and obvious. When a Gentile converts to Judaism, they undergo a ritual washing (tevilah) in a bath (mikveh), it is a spiritual rebirth from Gentile to Jew.

"The water of the mikveh is designed to ritually cleanse a person from deeds of the past. The convert is considered by Jewish law to be like a newborn child. By spiritually cleansing the convert, the mikveh water prepares him or her to confront God, life, and people with a fresh spirit and new eyes–it washes away the past, leaving only the future. Of course, this does not deny that there were good and beautiful aspects of the past. But, in the strictest religious sense, that past was only prologue to a future life as a Jew." - The Mikveh's Significance in Traditional Conversion | My Jewish Learning

That's why Jesus says to Nicodemus, "Are you not a teacher of Israel, how is it that you don't know these things?"

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Im not going to hold you hand here.
What you need to do, is go and study the NT and find out why Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, told YOU that "Christ sent me not to WATER Baptize".

Go find out, ViaCruscis.

Let us know what you discover.
I already know.
Its time for you to find out. And once you do, then share it with your Church so that they can all find out, also.

I already know why Paul said what he said. I'm trying to help you understand it to by encouraging you to read the Bible honestly.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

Born again, is not talking about being born again on earth out of your mother's womb a 2nd time, D tayloy.

Do the math.
Ive already explained it.

John 3 is stating that Gods spirit is placed in the believer (not the spirit of the believer being placed in God). That is the new birth a believer receives, they receive the gift of God

 

[Behold]

So Jesus is saying that in order to be born again we first have to be born vaginally? So children born of a c-section can't be saved?Why on earth would you believe that Jesus refers to the shedding of amniotic fluid, when it would have been plainly obvious to Nicodemus, a Jewish rabbi, that water meant water. That's why Jesus says to Nicodemus, "Are you not a teacher of Israel, how is it that you don't know these things?"
-CryptoLutheran

There were no "C" sections being performed in Israel 2000 yrs ago, ViaCrusis.
Or didn't you know?
And the reason that Jesus said to Nicodemus, "are you not a teacher", is so that Jesus could explain about the 2nd Birth. "you must be BORN AGAIN".

We are born 2x, if we are born again.
Neither occurs courtesy of the chlorinated city water service.
Even Nicodemus would know that, ViaCrusis.
Now, get busy trying to realize that you exist inside a denomination that teaches that something SAVES , which Paul said Christ sent him not to do.
If you learn this truth, you are in a "stuck" position. Because it means that you are in a heretical situation.
Not many people would be honest enough to let go of their pride, and accept it.
And if you are one of the few, then it would be difficult for you to not be angry with your church, your denomination, and all of the life you've spent, believing something that isn't true.
Now, i know you will find a defense, but i also know that you can't defend it other then to just write a lot of meaningless posts..
Which you will probably do.
But on the other hand....If you can see this LIGHT...... maybe you are strong enough to get out of the darkness.
Not many make it out, once they've gotten so use to it for half their life, or more.
Truly.

 

[Behold]

I already know why Paul said what he said. I'm trying to help you understand it to by encouraging you to read the Bible honestly.

-CryptoLutheran

You can spin what i said to try to cover up your error, but, your error is clearly seen.
You have spent a lot of you life, not realizing that the water is just water.
And, i dont think you'll ever see it any differently, even if you know its true, because you have been too long gone in the wrong....for too long.

"well, behold, just because Paul has washed away any idea that water saves, dont think i wont keep believing it, because that what im trained to do".

Yes i know.

 

[Behold]

John 3 is stating that Gods spirit is placed in the believer (not the spirit of the believer being placed in God). That is the new birth a believer receives, they receive the gift of God

The verse says...."YOU MUST BE BORN 2x"

Also the gift of God, is "the gift of Righteousness". So, we are made righteousess by Jesus becoming our sin, and us becoming "the righteousness of God " "In Chrsit".
See, we are put "IN CHRIST", and in this, God lives in us.
But we have to be put THERE....
If you are born again, you are not born again into this world, you are born again into a KINGDOM, and a FAMILY, of which, these are not of this earth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There were no "C" sections being performed in Israel 2000 yrs ago, ViaCrusis.
Or didn't you know?
And the reason that Jesus said to Nicodemus, "are you not a teacher", is so that Jesus could explain about the 2nd Birth. "you must be BORN AGAIN".

But Jesus says "you must be born", if this is how we are made new, born anew, born again, of God, and one of the requirements is the shedding of amniotic fluid which occurs through natural childbirth, then that is that. If Jesus is saying one must born naturally with the shedding of amniotic fluid (which is how you are defining the "water" of John 3:5) then it must follow that children born, say, by c-section, are not included here--that excludes such persons from being born again.

However, you are wrong, c-sections have been performed for a very long time. In antiquity c-sections were reserved exclusively for dying or dead mothers, to save the child's life. Records of such procedures date to centuries before Christ. So from a purely historical point of view, your statement is in error.

And the reason Jesus says what He says to Nicodemus about being a teacher of Israel is because Nicodemus should have understood what Jesus meant. Otherwise He would not have said it.

We are born 2x, if we are born again.
Neither occurs courtesy of the chlorinated city water service.
Even Nicodemus would know that, ViaCrusis.
Now, get busy trying to realize that you exist inside a denomination that teaches that something SAVES , which Paul said Christ sent him not to do.

You presume to know my history because I am a Lutheran. I was not raised in the Lutheran tradition, and I did not come to believe what I believe here because of blindly following what my denomination says. I believe what I believe because it's what Scripture teaches, and I am Lutheran because Lutheranism confesses what Scripture teaches.

If you learn this truth, you are in a "stuck" position. Because it means that you are in a heretical situation.
Not many people would be honest enough to let go of their pride, and accept it.
And if you are one of the few, then it would be difficult for you to not be angry with your church, your denomination, and all of the life you've spent, believing something that isn't true.

I'm noticing that you seem to be refusing to engage in the actual arguments which I have been presenting, and have chosen instead to focus instead on the fact that I'm Lutheran. This is not helping your argument.

Now, i know you will find a defense, but i also know that you can't defend it other then to just write a lot of meaningless posts..
Which you will probably do.
But on the other hand....If you can see this LIGHT...... maybe you are strong enough to get out of the darkness.
Not many make it out, once they've gotten so use to it for half their life, or more.
Truly.

The irony here is not lost on me, and no doubt won't be lost on many others. Though I suspect you aren't able to detect it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You have spent a lot of you life, not realizing that the water is just water.

Please, by all means, tell me more about what I've believed my whole life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

The verse says...."YOU MUST BE BORN 2x"

Also the gift of God, is "the gift of Righteousness". So, we are made righteousess by Jesus becoming our sin, and us becoming "the righteousness of God " "In Chrsit".
See, we are put "IN CHRIST", and in this, God lives in us.
But we have to be put THERE....
If you are born again, you are not born again into this world, you are born again into a KINGDOM, and a FAMILY, of which, these are not of this earth.

Where did i say a person is not born twice, Christ is the Atonement for the sin of the world, believer and unbeliever alike.

Why do you keep saying things i have never said, where did i say the second birth is being born into thee world.

The gift of God is Eternal Life try reading Romans 6

A believer receives The Messiah's Eternal Life when they believe.

 

[d taylor]

Through the Sacrament of Baptism we are born of God, though dead in our trespasses we have been made alive to God by His grace.

It doesn't need to be anymore complicated than what Scripture itself already says.

-CryptoLutheran

Looks like it is belief (that Jesus is The Messiah) and that is how a person is born of God.
Only the whole gospel of John states that.

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him”

 

[ViaCrucis]

Looks like it is belief (that Jesus is The Messiah) and that is how a person is born of God.
Only the whole gospel of John states that.

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him”

How does a faithless sinner believe in Jesus Christ?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

How does a faithless sinner believe in Jesus Christ?

-CryptoLutheran

How do you believe any evidence when it is presented to you. Example a trial how do you believe if a person is innocent or guilty

 

[d taylor]

How does a faithless sinner believe in Jesus Christ?

-CryptoLutheran

And i am not faithless i have the ability to place faith in many things.

 

[GenemZ]

I believe instead of birthing our spirit into God. He births His spirit (Holy Spirit of Everlasting life) into us.

Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again before anyone was being given the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Nicodemus was still living in the age of the Jews. The church age was not in sight at that time.

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present
to you the word of God in its fullness— the mystery that has been
kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to
the Lord’s people." Colossians 1:25-26​

Paul tells us that the Church age was a mystery that was yet hidden. Nicodemus could not have thought "born again" means having the Holy Spirit live in you.

The Holy Spirit was not to be given to believers until after Jesus ascended and was glorified.

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood
and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come
to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.
”By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in
him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit
had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been
glorified." John 7:37-39​

Jesus was telling Nicodemus he needed the Holy Spirit to beget his human spirit. Not to receive the Holy Spirit. That was still hidden and a secret only for later to be revealed.

All OT believers became body, soul, and human spirit. Made to be spiritually alive! That is what Jesus spoke of in the meaning "born again." Its the only thing that would apply to Nicodemus' state while being yet a Jew.

In the Church age we now are to receive the special gift of the Holy Spirit entering us to take up residence. OT saints did not have the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit like all Christians now do.

And? To be born of water? That speaks of the first birth. Our being born of our mother who broke water when we were about to come into the world. It was not about water baptism as its so easily confused about. Jesus was comparing the physical birth to the spiritual birth.

May God bless...

 

[ViaCrucis]

How do you believe any evidence when it is presented to you. Example a trial how do you believe if a person is innocent or guilty

So our salvation depends on convincing our fallen, sinful reason of the truth of the Gospel story? Doesn't the Apostle say that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing? That God chose the foolish things of this world to confound the wise?

How are you going to convince fallen, sinful, human reason to believe in the foolishness of God?

The answer is you can't.

But the answer to my question is already there in Scripture, it's in Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 10:17.

Faith is a gift.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

And i am not faithless i have the ability to place faith in many things.

There's clearly a difference between saving faith in Christ and faith in other things. After all, even the demons believe and they tremble.

No, as a sinner you are faithless, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If it were not for the grace of God through the Gospel, you would not have faith in God's Son who saves you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GraceBro]

-
It means that, as an unbeliever, you have a nature that is sinful. It means that because Adam sinned, this caused a " lost position".., where he was no longer connected to God, spiritually.
And all who were born since Adam, have this same situation... this same spiritual condition.

Our nature, is our spiritual condition... and its UNRIGHTEOUS.
We have a dead spirit, ... dead in the sense that is not a part of God's HOLY Spirit.
God is "A" Spirit.....= Holy Spirit.
We are not holy, we are sinful, sinners, and lost. "Lost" means we are disconnected from the Holy Spirit of God.
How is this resolved? God gives us His Righteousness, and it becomes OURS.
"we are made the righteousness of GOD = IN CHRIST".
"The Gift of Righteousness".

Through our FAITH .... God BIRTHS our spirit into His, and we become "ONE" with God and Christ.
How does this happen? Thru the power of the Holy Spirit.... God literally puts His Righteousness in us, and we become it, and this creates a BIRTH in our Spirit, that connects us to God's Spirit. = Born again.
This is the "new birth", or the 2nd Birth, which creates us as a "new Creation" "In Christ".
This is how we are born again. = Jesus said : "You must be born again". John 3

What causes it?
"all that call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED". "Saved" means, justified in God's sight.
It means that the blood of Jesus is applied to us, which gives us a complete forgiveness that is eternal.
It causes us to be at peace with God, and it forever redeems us back into God's family.

To be born again means to have the life of God, lost in the Garden when Adam sinned, restored to you as a free gift when you accept Jesus Christ as your savior. You are born once physically when you come out of your mother's womb. You are born again, spiritually, when the Holy Spirit comes to live inside you at the moment of salvation.

 

[d taylor]

There's clearly a difference between saving faith in Christ and faith in other things. After all, even the demons believe and they tremble.

No, as a sinner you are faithless, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If it were not for the grace of God through the Gospel, you would not have faith in God's Son who saves you.

-CryptoLutheran

Salvation was never offered to demons.

So you do not actually have a answer that is ok.