What does all mean?

[Shrewd Manager]

I will save you the trouble and say that Hell is populated by those who reject Christ.

Yes ok, in this case the atheist war hero and rape victim.

But if you can share Scripture from which you argue your stance we can have a legitimate discussion over this.

Like to know how it all ends? Well, take a peek at the last few pages of the book.

The nations besiege Jerusalem but are consumed by fire (Rev 20:9), then after God says He's making all things new (Rev 21:2), the nations emerge repentant and welcome to heaven (Rev 21:24-26) for healing with the leaves of the tree of life (Rev 22:2). As for the reprobates, the gates are always open (Rev 21:25) and they're encouraged to wash their robes (Rev 22:something) and take the free gift of life so that....(wait for it)...(drum roll)...

the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ will be upon all (Rev 22:21). God fulfills 1 Cor 15:18 to be all in all, and the restoration prophecies Peter mentions in Acts 3:21 to restore all things, and all men are netted by the great fisher of men as per John 12:32. It's an 'all inclusive' deal.

Lotsa glad tidings of great joy for all mankind (Lk 2:10) there.

So there's the consummation of the ages. (This message has been made possible by the glory of God and the word 'ALL'.)

I'm guessing you have a different version.

 

[zoidar]

Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament

William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

[A translation & adaptation of Wm. Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schrift en des Neueu Testaments und der uberigen]

PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).

1. adj., used w. a noun—a. w. the noun in the sing. without the art.—a.

Emphasizing the individual members of the class denoted by the noun every, each, any, scarcely different in mng. fr. the pl. ‘all’: pa’n devndron Mt 3:10; Lk 3:9. pa’sa futeiva Mt 15:13. pa’sa favragx, pa’n o[ro" Lk 3:5 (Is 40:4). pa’" tovpo" 4:37. pa’" a[nqrwpo" J 1:9; 2:10; Ro 3:4 (Ps 115:2); Gal 5:3; Col 1:28a, b, d; Js 1:19. pa’n e[qno" Ac 17:26a. pa’sa yuchv (Pla., Phaedr. 249e) 2:43; 3:23 (cf. Lev 23:29); Ro 2:9. pa’sa hJmevra Ac 5:42; 17:17. pa’n savbbaton 18:4. pa’sa ajrch; kai; pa’sa ejxousiva 1 Cor 15:24. pa’sa suneivdhsi" 2 Cor 4:2. pa’" a{gio" Phil 4:21. pa’" oi\ko" Hb 3:4. pa’sa ajntilogiva 7:7. pa’sa paideiva all discipline 12:11. pa’" ojfqalmov" Rv 1:7a. pa’n ktivsma 5:13a.—Mt 23:35; Lk 2:23 (Ex 13:2); 4:13; 21:36; 2 Th 2:4 (Da 11:36). pa’sa ktivsi" every creature Col 1:15; ejn pavsh/ ktivsei to every creature vs. 23. pa’sa grafhv 2 Ti 3:16 (cf. grafhv 2a).

—In the OT, also En. (1, 9) and Test. Gad 7:2, but not in Ep. Arist., Philo, nor Joseph., is pa’sa savrx (r`;oBƒAlK all flesh Lk 3:6 (Is 40:5). Mostly w. a neg. (so also En. 14, 21; 17, 6) ouj (or mhv). . . pa’sa savrx no flesh=no one Mt 24:22; Mk 13:20; Ro 3:20; 1 Cor 1:29; Gal 2:16. Other sim. neg. expressions are also Hebraistic (cf. Bl-D. §302, 1; Mlt.-H. 433f) ouj. . . pa’n rJh’ma not a thing, nothing Lk 1:37 (cf. PRyl. 113, 12f [133 ad] mh;. . . pa’n pra’gma). oujdevpote e[fagon pa’n koinovn I have never eaten anything common Ac 10:14. Cf. Rv 7:1, 16; 9:4; 21:27. Also in reverse order, pa’". . . ouj or mhv (Ex 12:16; Sir 8:19; 10:6, but s. also GMLee, ET 63, ‘51f, 156) 18:22; Eph 4:29; 5:5; 2 Pt 1:20; 1J 2:21; 3:15b.—Only rarely is a ptc. used w. pa’" in this way: panto;" ajkouvonto" when anyone hears Mt 13:19. panti; ojfeivlonti Lk 11:4 (Mlt.-Turner 196f).

b. including everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun every kind of, all sorts of,

For the words pantodapov" and pantoi’o", which are lacking in our lit.: pa’sa novso" kai; pa’sa malakiva Mt 4:23. gevmousin pavsh" ajkaqarsiva" they are full of all kinds of uncleanness 23:27. pa’sa ejxousiva 28:18. ajpo; panto;" e[qnou" from every kind of nation Ac 2:5. Cf. 7:22; 13:10a, b; Ro 1:18, 29. pa’sa ejpiqumiva (evil) desire of every kind 7:8. ejn panti; lovgw/ kai; pavsh/ gnwvsei 1 Cor 1:5b. pa’n aJmavrthma every kind of sin 6:18. Cf. 2 Cor 7:1; 9:8b, c; 10:5a, b; Eph 1:3, 8, 21 a; 4:19; 5:3; Phil 1:9; 2 Th 2:17. pa’n e[rgon ajgaqovn Tit 1:16; 3:1. Cf. 2:14; Hb 13:21. pa’sa dovsi", pa’n dwvrhma Js 1:17 (W-S. §20, 11b). Cf. vs. 21; 1 Pt 2:1 a, b; Rev 8:7 al.

c. every, any and every, just any, any at all mh;

Panti; pneuvmati pisteuvete do not believe just any spirit 1J 4:1. periferovmenoi panti; ajnevmw/ th’" didaskaliva" Eph 4:14. peri; panto;" pravgmato" about anything Mt 18:19. kata; pa’san au]tivan for any reason at all 19:3. Cf. 4:4=Lk 4:4 t.r. (Dt 8:3); Mt 12:31; 2 Cor 1:4b (on ejpi; pavsh/ th’/ qlivyei hJmw’n vs. 4a see 1cb below).

d. to denote the highest degree full, greatest, all

(Pla., Rep. 9 p. 575a; Demosth. 18, 279 al.; LXX) meta; parrhsiva" pavsh" Ac 4:29. ejn pavsh/ ajsfaleiva/ 5:23. pavsh/ suneidhvsei ajgaqh’/ in all good conscience 23:1. Cf. 17:11; 24:3; 2 Cor 9:8b; 12:12; Eph 4:2. ejn pavsh/ proskarterhvsei with the greatest perseverance 6:18c. Cf. Phil 1:20; 2:29; Col 1:11a, b; 1 Ti 2:2b, 11; 3:4; 4:9; 5:2; Tit 2:15; Js 1:2; 2 Pt 1:5; Jd 3 al. ajskei’n pa’san uJpomonhvn practice patient endurance to the limit Pol 9:1 (Kleist).

e. all, the whole before proper names, mostly geographic

(X., Hell. 4, 8, 28 prostavtai pavsh" Levsbou e[sontai al.; LXX) pa’sa JIerosovluma Mt 2:3 (s. JIer.). pa’" jIsrahvl (3 Km 8:65; 11:16; 1 Esdr 1:19; 5:45, 58; Jdth 15:14) Ro 11:26 (cf. W-S. §20, 11a and b; Rob. 772).

The OT is also the source of pa’" oi\ko" jIsrahvl (1 Km 7:2, 3) Ac 2:36 and, in subject matter, ejpi; panto;" proswvpou th’" gh’" 17:26b (but Gen 2:6 has pa’n to; provswpon th’" gh’", and 7:23; 11:4, 8, 9 ejpi; proswvpou [or provswpon¼ pavsh" th’" gh’").—Perh. pa’sa oijkodomhv Eph 2:21 (cf. W-S. §20:11 b; Rob. 772; Mlt.-Turner 199f; MDibelius, Hdb. ad loc.; M. Ant. 6, 36, 1; Dit., Or. 383, 86ff).

b. w. a noun in the pl., without the art. pavnte" a[nqrwpoi all men, everyone

(Lysias 12, 60; Andoc. 3, 25; X., Cyr. 7, 5, 52, Mem. 4, 4, 19; Demosth. 8, 5; 18, 72) Ac 22:15; Ro 5:12a, 18a, b; 12:17, 18; 1 Cor 7:7; 15:19; 2 Cor 3:2; Phil 4:5; 1 Th 2:15; 1 Ti 2:4; 4:10; Tit 2:11. pavnte" a[ggeloi qeou’ Hb 1:6 (Dt 32:43. Cf. Demosth. 18, 294 pavnte" qeoiv).

c. w. a noun in the sing., w. the art.—a. the whole, all

(the), preceding a noun that has the art.: pa’sa hJ jIoudaiva kai; pa’sa hJ perivcwro" Mt 3:5. pa’sa hJ ajgevlh the whole herd 8:32. Cf. vs. 34; 13:2; 21:10; 27:25, 45; Mk 2:13; 4:1. pa’sa hJ ajlhvqeia 5:33. pa’sa hJ ktivsi" the whole creation Mk 16:15; Ro 8:22. Cf. Lk 1:10; 2:1, 10; Ac 3:9, 11; 5:21; 15:12. pa’" oJ kovsmo" Ro 3:19b; Col 1:6. pa’n to; spevrma Ro 4:16. pa’sa hJ gh’ 9:17 (Ex 9:16); Lk 4:25. pa’sa hJ gnw’si", pa’sa hJ pivsti" 1 Cor 13:2b, c. pa’n to; plhvrwma Eph 3:19; Col 1:19; 2:9. pa’n to; sw’ma Eph 4:16; Col 2:19. Cf. Hb 9:19b,

c.—W. a demonstrative pron. pa’" oJ lao;" ou|to" all these people Lk 9:13.

pa’sa hJ ojfeilh; ejkeivnh Mt 18:32.—Following the noun that has the article: th;n krivsin pa’san the whole matter of judgment J 5:22. eu]" th;n ajlhvqeian pa’san into truth in all its outreach 16:13. th;n ejxousivan. . . pa’san Rev 13:12.

b. all ejpi; pavsh/ th’/ qlivyei hJmw’n in all our trouble 2 Cor 1:4a (on ejn pavsh/ qlivyei vs. 4b s. 1ag above); 7:4; 1 Th 3:7. ejpi; pavsh/ th’ mneiva/ uJmw’n in all remembrance of you Phil 1:3. pa’san th;n mevrimnan uJmw’n all your care 1 Pet 5:7.

g. Oft. pa’" oJ, pavsa hJ, pa’n tov is used w. a ptc. every one who, whoever pa’"

oJ (Soph., Aj. 152; Demosth. 23, 97; Sir 22:2, 26; 1 Macc 1:52; 2:27) pa’" oJ ojrgizovmeno" Mt 5:22. Cf. vs. 28, 32; 7:8, 26 (=pa’" o{sti" vs. 24; s. g below); Lk 6:47; 11:10; 14:11; 16:18; 18:14; 19:26; J 3:8, 15f, 20; 4:13; 6:40; 8:34; 18:37; Ac 10:43b; 13:39; Ro 2:1, 10; 10:4, 11; 1 Cor 9:25; Gal 3:13; 2 Ti 2:19; Hb 5:13; 1 J 2:23, 29 al.; 2 J 9; Rv 22:18.—pa’n tov everything that (1 Macc 10:41): pa’n to; eijsporeuovmenon Mt 15:17; Mk 7:18. pa’n to; ojfeilovmenon Mt 18:34. pa’n to; pwlouvmenon 1 Cor 10:25; cf. vs. 27. pa’n to; fanerouvmenon Eph 5:14. pa’n to; gegennhmevnon 1J 5:4.

—An equivalent of this expr. is pa’" o{" (or o{sti"), pa’n o{ every one who, whatever (s. g above and cf. Bl-D. §293, 1; 413, 2; Rob. 727; 957), masc.: Mt 7:24; 10:32; 19:29; Lk 12:8, 10 (RHolst, ZNW 63, ‘72, 122-4), 48; 14:33; Ac 2:21 (pa’" o}" ejavn, after Jo 2:32); Ro 10:13 (pa’" o}" a[n, after Jo 3:5); Gal 3:10. Neut. (Jdth 12:14.—Jos., Ant. 5, 211 pa’n o{=pavnte" oiJ): J 6:37, 39; 17:2b; Ro 14:23 (o}n a[n); Col 3:17 (pa’n o{ti ejavn).

d. w. a noun in the pl., w. the art. all—

a. w. substantives: pa’sai aiJ geneaiv Mt 1:17; Lk 1:48; Eph 3:21. pavnta" tou;" ajrcierei’" Mt 2:4. Cf. vs. 16; 4:8; 11:13; Mk 4:13, 31f; 6:33; Lk 1:6; 2:51; 6:26; J 18:20; Ac 1:18; 3:18; 10:12, 43a; 14:16; Ro 1:5; 15:11 (Ps 116:1); 16:4; 1 Cor 12:26a, b; 2 Cor 8:18; 11:28; Eph 4:10; 6:16b; Col 2:13; 1 Ti 6:10; Hb 4:4 (Gen 2:2); 9:21; Js 1:8; Rv 1:7b; 7:11; 15:4 al.

—Used w. a demonstr. pron.: pa’sai aiJ parqevnoi ejkei’nai Mt 25:7. pavnta" tou;" lovgou" touvtou" 26:1. pavnta ta; rJhvmata tau’ta Lk 1:65; 2:19.

—Somet. following the noun: ta;" povlei" pavsa" Mt 9:35; Ac 8:40. oiJ maqhtai; pavnte" the disciples, one and all Mt 26:56. aiJ quvrai pa’sai Ac 16:26a. Cf. Ro 16:16; 1 Cor 7:17; 13:2a; 15:7; 16:20; 1 Th 5:26; 2 Ti 4:21; Rv 8:3. oiJ JIerosolumi’tai pavnte" Mk 1:5.—On the position of ejkei’no", e{neka, pa’" cf. NTurner, Vetus T V '55, 208-13.

b. w. participles pavnte" oiJ: pavnte" oiJ kakw’"

e[conte" Mt 4:24. pavnte" oiJ kopiw’nte" 11:28; cf. 21:12; 26:52; Lk 1:66; 2:47; 13:17; Ac 1:19; 2:44; 4:16; 5:5, 11; 6:15; 9:14; 28:30; Ro 1:7; 4:11; 1 Cor 1:2; Eph 6:24; 1 Th 1:7; 2 Th 1:10; 2 Ti 3:12; 4:8; Hb 5:9; 13:24; 2J 1; Rv 13:8; 18:24. Following the ptc. oiJ katoikou’nte" pavnte" Ac 2:14. ejn toi’" hJgiasmevnoi" pa’sin 20:32.—pavnta tav: pavnta ta; genovmena Mt 18:31. pavnta ta; uJpavrconta 24:47; Lk 12:44; 1 Cor 13:3. Cf. Lk 17:10; 18:31; 21:36; J 18:4; Ac 10:33b. Used w. a demonstr. pron.: peri; pavntwn tw’n sumbebhkovtwn touvtwn Lk 24:14. Following: ta; ginovmena pavnta 9:7.

All means every single person.

John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[FineLinen]

This is actually not at all what I have said, feel free to quote where I have said this. I will save you the trouble and say that Hell is populated by those who reject Christ.

Could you share Scripture on how you come to the conclusion that the lake of fire serves the purpose as to bring the dead to a life renewed in Christ? If you can share Scripture from which you argue your stance we can have a legitimate discussion over this.

Would you like to declare who holds the keys of death and all 4 hells?

He is the Master locksmith of exquisite proportions knowing how to turn the keys!

 

[DamianWarS]

All = pa’ß =

Radically means all.

hmm... but then you said

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some

I'm confused, not what all means but what you're trying to say

 

[Yahkov]

Would you like to declare who holds the keys of death and all 4 hells?

He is the Master locksmith of exquisite proportions knowing how to turn the keys!

This conversation isn't going anywhere. Thank you for the responses and God bless!

 

[Yahkov]

Yes ok, in this case the atheist war hero and rape victim.



Like to know how it all ends? Well, take a peek at the last few pages of the book.

The nations besiege Jerusalem but are consumed by fire (Rev 20:9), then after God says He's making all things new (Rev 21:2), the nations emerge repentant and welcome to heaven (Rev 21:24-26) for healing with the leaves of the tree of life (Rev 22:2). As for the reprobates, the gates are always open (Rev 21:25) and they're encouraged to wash their robes (Rev 22:something) and take the free gift of life so that....(wait for it)...(drum roll)...

the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ will be upon all (Rev 22:21). God fulfills 1 Cor 15:18 to be all in all, and the restoration prophecies Peter mentions in Acts 3:21 to restore all things, and all men are netted by the great fisher of men as per John 12:32. It's an 'all inclusive' deal.

Lotsa glad tidings of great joy for all mankind (Lk 2:10) there.

So there's the consummation of the ages. (This message has been made possible by the glory of God and the word 'ALL'.)

I'm guessing you have a different version.

That's not a good exegesis. Our versions are probably the same, it's about how you interpret Scripture. Universalism is not the Gospel. You are reading this into the text. Not once does Scripture say someone enters into eternal glory without faith in Christ. This "ending" you are proposing does not say that either.

As for this "regeneration" by lake of fire...

"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." - Revelation 20:10

As for God making things new...

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." - Revelation 21:1

As for the gates that are always open and these "repentant" nations...

"They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life." - Revelation 21:26-27

We can keep going. I recommend you gather context and not cherry pick.

Drum roll...

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." - Revelation 22:14-15

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 

[Shrewd Manager]

That's not a good exegesis.

And I say it is, and you're the cherry-picker. J'accuse!

You have to read the narrative, not just 'the one-liners'. I put it together for you, you've gone back to plucking out bits that suit yo.

Of course the unclean stay outside the City. The conditions of entry are such that the sinner needs to get cleaned up before his ticket gets punched (21:27). That's why we have ever-open City gates (21:25). And the nations have ipso facto been purified, because they come in to the City to bring their glory (21:24 and 26), and get the healing treatment (22:2).

God says let them still be vile if they want (22:11), there's no more curse (22:3). But 'Come on in' is the standing invitation and encouragement from the the spirit and the bride, get the free stuff (22:17). But you gotta bathe in the Lamb's blood (22:14), or hang out with the reprobates outside (22:15).

This reading is straightforward and inescapable. So much so that the KJV translators disgracefully added to the words of the scroll (22:19) by interpolating "of them which are saved" in v.21:24 so it misleadingly reads:

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:

And the sneaky NIV devils changed v.22:21 to read:

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people.

When it should say "with all".

 

[Yahkov]

And I say it is, and you're the cherry-picker. J'accuse!

You have to read the narrative, not just 'the one-liners'. I put it together for you, you've gone back to plucking out bits that suit yo.

Of course the unclean stay outside the City. The conditions of entry are such that the sinner needs to get cleaned up before his ticket gets punched (21:27). That's why we have ever-open City gates (21:25). And the nations have ipso facto been purified, because they come in to the City to bring their glory (21:24 and 26), and get the healing treatment (22:2).

God says let them still be vile if they want (22:11), there's no more curse (22:3). But 'Come on in' is the standing invitation and encouragement from the the spirit and the bride, get the free stuff (22:17). But you gotta bathe in the Lamb's blood (22:14), or hang out with the reprobates outside (22:15).

This reading is straightforward and inescapable. So much so that the KJV translators disgracefully added to the words of the scroll (22:19) by interpolating "of them which are saved" in v.21:24 so it misleadingly reads:

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it:

And the sneaky NIV devils changed v.22:21 to read:

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people.

When it should say "with all".

It's interesting how Christ is the constant for entry. I'll say it again, hell is full of people who reject Christ. Even if that person is an atheist 15 year old rape victim or an atheist war hero.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" - John 14:6

 

[Shrewd Manager]

hell is full of people who reject Christ. Even if that person is an atheist 15 year old rape victim or an atheist war hero.

Sorry, but hell was cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20:9. They are different animals. Hell is gone daddy gone by the time the new heavens and earth come in.

Only abundant grace and life in Christ remains, plus a few refugees in transit, relics from a bygone era still clutching their gods.

 

[Yahkov]

Sorry, but hell was cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20:9. They are different animals. Hell is gone daddy gone by the time the new heavens and earth come in.

Only abundant grace and life in Christ remains, plus a few refugees in transit, relics from a bygone era still clutching their gods.

Only abundant grace and life in Christ remains? So why even give me a hypothetical of a 15 year old girl getting raped? If getting raped and raping is part of an abundant life in Christ, I want no part in this...version...you are presenting.

Have you watched the news recently?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Only abundant grace and life in Christ remains? So why even give me a hypothetical of a 15 year old girl getting raped? If getting raped and raping is part of an abundant life in Christ, I want no part in this...version...you are presenting.

Have you watched the news recently?

What are you on about? We're talking the Eschaton, the Christian hope, Rev 20-22 territory.

Now, the tribulation.

 

[Yahkov]

Sorry, but hell was cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20:9. They are different animals. Hell is gone daddy gone by the time the new heavens and earth come in.

Only abundant grace and life in Christ remains, plus a few refugees in transit, relics from a bygone era still clutching their gods.

What are you on about? We're talking the Eschaton, the Christian hope, Rev 20-22 territory.

Now, the tribulation.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."" - Isaiah 66:22-24

"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.'" - Mark 9:47-48

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire." - Matthew 18:8

 

[Shrewd Manager]

"For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."" - Isaiah 66:22-24

"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.'" - Mark 9:47-48

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire." - Matthew 18:8

Yes, nobody's saying the fire goes out. It's God's fire, His divine essence, so it's eternal.

There's nothing in these scriptures against the principle that the purpose of the fire is restorative. Revelation 21-22 reveals that it is just that.

Ever had a bone reset in hospital after an accident? Painful, but necessary.

 

[Yahkov]

Yes, nobody's saying the fire goes out. It's God's fire, His divine essence, so it's eternal.

There's nothing in these scriptures against the principle that the purpose of the fire is restorative. Revelation 21-22 reveals that it is just that.

Ever had a bone reset in hospital after an accident? Painful, but necessary.

I have had Revelation 21-22 several times now. There is nothing that suggests hell is a temporal, restorative, place where people go.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

Where do we see these people escaping this judgement?

 

[Pedra]

Like the 15 year old rape victim who leaves a suicide note rejecting God for not saving her. Hellbound?

I see that as none of our business & who knows what happens prior to death? God only and I leave it with Him.

 

[Pedra]

Is it not? I did some digging - over two years or so - and finally found my answer. I knew that God was/is willing, based on Scriptures like Ezekiel 18:23. But...was/is He able? Then, in a flash one day, I realized - God is omnipotent, so OF COURSE He is able! It's simple, really.

But God doesn't contradict Himself. Here just 3 verses earlier it says......
Ezekiel 18:20 "20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I have had Revelation 21-22 several times now. There is nothing that suggests hell is a temporal, restorative, place where people go.

Hell is gone in v.20:9. The remainder is all about salvation, God renews everything, opens the gates, invites sinners to clean up and come in. And it ends with they all live happily everafter.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

Where do we see these people escaping this judgement?

V. 21:24-26 nations are restored. V.22:2 tree leaves are for healing nations.

V.22:14,15,17 - reprobates can wash robes and answer invitation to come in.

And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them? And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master.
(2 Kings 6:21-22)

 

[Lazarus Short]

But God doesn't contradict Himself. Here just 3 verses earlier it says......
Ezekiel 18:20 "20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Yes, but that statement in Ezekiel is just a repeat of what God said in the Garden, that if Adam and Eve disobeyed, sinned and ate the fruit...they would die. Dying is done in the here-and-now world. God also stated the He kills and makes alive. Anyway, your context comment does not really answer whether God is willing and able. Verse 20 is only the announcement that people will now answer for their own sins, and not be punished for the sins of others - for whole families not to be killed for the sins of the heads of families, as was done in the rebellion of Korah.

 

[Yahkov]

Hell is gone in v.20:9. The remainder is all about salvation, God renews everything, opens the gates, invites sinners to clean up and come in. And it ends with they all live happily everafter.



V. 21:24-26 nations are restored. V.22:2 tree leaves are for healing nations.

V.22:14,15,17 - reprobates can wash robes and answer invitation to come in.

And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them? And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master.
(2 Kings 6:21-22)

How is hell gone in Revelation 20:9 when Revelation 20:11-15 talks of the very same judgement described in Matthew 25:31-46?

Revelation 20:11, a judgment is made from the great white throne. In Matthew 25:31, a judgement is made from a glorious throne. In both passages, we know Jesus is the one sitting on this throne (Matthew 25:31, John 5:22, 2 Corinthians 5:10). In Revelation 20:15, we see people thrown into the lake of fire. In Matthew 25:41, we see people thrown into the eternal fire. This is the same eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, also noted in Matthew 25:41. We see the devil sent to this same eternal fire in Revelation 20:10, where it is called the lake of fire and he will be tormented day and night, forever and ever (eternal, the place prepared for him and his angels).

If hell is, according to you, gone in Revelation 20:9, then where is it that the devil, the false prophet, and the beast are sent? Do we assume they come around to Salvation as well?

I find it clear in Scripture that hell is eternal, the lake of fire is hell, and those who go there will be tormented day and night, forever.

Revelation 20 concludes with the sentencing of the devil and the judgement of all, Revelation 21 opens with those who experience the eternal life (not eternal punishment), and Revelation 22 concludes with John in the present he was in during his time.

Revelation 21, judgement is over and a new heaven and new earth has come. Revelation 21:6, it is done. Revelation 21:7, the one who conquers (Romans 8:37) is with God. Revelation 21:8, describes those whose portion is the lake that burns with fire and sulfur (the same lake of fire and sulfur that the devil is sent to in Revelation 20:10, which once again is said to be forever and ever).

Revelation 22:6-17, this is talking about during the time John had received these visions and even extends to this very moment. John has received no new vision, the vision is complete. Wash your robes now, get ready, be ready, Jesus is coming soon.

If you come around to realize all of this, you will see that people are sent to this very same place the devil is sent. In judgement you will either go away into eternal punishment, or enter into eternal life (Matthew 25:46). The idea that all people, everyone, will come to Salvation is never presented in Scripture.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

How is hell gone in Revelation 20:9 when Revelation 20:11-15 talks of the very same judgement described in Matthew 25:31-46?

Because hell/ hades is an evil place/ state not of God's making. In v:20:14 it is cast into the lake of fire, so hell is obviously different in nature and quality to the lake of fire (the word is 'pure' in Greek, and theion (sulphur) is a purifying agent with the root 'the' signifying God's essence). The fire consumes and destroys, correct. But what does it destroy? Not people, because the nations emerge from it after being consumed in v.20:9, they're back in v.21:24-26 and now their friendly. So what happened to them in the fire? The chancre of indwelling sin was destroyed, they were part of the 'all things' that were being 'made new' in v.21:5. Halleluja, God's justice saves!

I find it clear in Scripture that hell is eternal, the lake of fire is hell, and those who go there will be tormented day and night, forever.

Well, you're reading the wrong something, because hell has been overcome by life in the lake of fire. And the punishments are always kolasis (corrective) never timoreisis (retributive), a clear distinction that's lost in the English and Latin translations. Also, the word 'aion' doesn't generally mean 'eternal' (eg Galatians 'this present evil age'), and is better translated as 'otherworldly' when used in reference to events in the world to come. 'Aidios' is the word for eternal in Greek.

Revelation 22:6-17, this is talking about during the time John had received these visions and even extends to this very moment. John has received no new vision, the vision is complete. Wash your robes now, get ready, be ready, Jesus is coming soon.

I'll accept that Rev 22:6-12 are back in the then present. But not verses 14 through 17. He's still talking about inside/ outside the City vision and the invitation is to come in for the water of life. If anything, this is connecting the present to the Eschaton, where essentially the same rules apply. Come to Christ now, or God's going to have to refine, purge the dross and scrub you with fuller's soap. (I'm sure you get the references.)