What does all mean?

[Not David]

You know there is no such thing as an "eternal" hell?

Death and all four hells are consummated in the Lake of Theos!

It might not be eternal in the sense that there is no time passing by, but one could say the same thing about heaven.

 

[Not David]

if you've been following this thread then you know I haven't been making the argument that they were right. I'm just putting it out there. It's a discussion. It helps to have various points of view. That's all.

Might be, but I have been hearing a lot of comments that the Romans were the ones who created the idea of hell to control people, and that Greeks didn't believe in it.

 

[FineLinen]

The question raised that I responded to was a 15 year old rape victim rejecting God and an atheist war hero.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." - Romans 1:18-20

"For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus." - Romans 2:12-16

Perhaps these may help with your question. I wholeheartedly believe when people seek God, God reveals Himself to them, not that they persuaded God. God has already revealed his eternal power and divine nature since the beginning of creation.

Dear Yahkov: Can you tell me how 535 children who die this very hour worldwide can wholeheartedly seek God? And, for those unfortunate members of our species whose mind is in the sub normal range making them incapable of "wholehearedly" seeking our Father, what of them?

 

[public hermit]

Might be, but I have been hearing a lot of comments that the Romans were the ones who created the idea of hell to control people, and that Greeks didn't believe in it.

That argument sounds too simple. I wouldn't argue that all of the ancient, Greek speaking Christians did not believe in an eternal hell. And, I wouldn't argue that the Latin speaking church asserted an eternal hell simply for control. I am confident Augustine, for instance, held his view of hell not because of a desire for control but because that is how he read the scriptures. It's not a very generous argument. One would have to discount, out of hand, a lot of clear statements made by leaders in the Latin church. So, I think that argument would be hard to sustain.

 

[FineLinen]

It might not be eternal in the sense that there is no time passing by, but one could say the same thing about heaven.

Dear David: there are two verses of Canon that use the word eternal. That word is aidios and only refers to the Author & Finisher of the all.

Everlasting on the other hand is the word aionios. Without troubling yourself to grasp the scope of aionios for heaven or anything else, simply turn your Bible pages to St. John and read with me>>>

This IS life aionios, that we may know You....

 

[Yahkov]

Dear Yahkov: Can you tell me how 535 children who die this very hour worldwide can wholeheartedly seek God? And, for those unfortunate members of our species whose mind is in the sub normal range making them incapable of "wholehearedly" seeking our Father, what of them?

No I can't. Nor will I force an answer where one is not necessary. I know nothing of them or their Salvation. God is just, I do know that.

 

[renniks]

Dear Yahkov: Can you tell me how 535 children who die this very hour worldwide can wholeheartedly seek God? And, for those unfortunate members of our species whose mind is in the sub normal range making them incapable of "wholehearedly" seeking our Father, what of them?

Most Christians believe in an age of innocence. Matthew 18:10 Do sinners have angels?

 

[FineLinen]

Dear David: there are two verses of Canon that use the word eternal. That word is aidios and only refers to the Author & Finisher of the all.

Everlasting on the other hand is the word aionios. Without troubling yourself to grasp the scope of aionios for heaven or anything else, simply turn your Bible pages to St. John and read with me>>>

This IS life aionios, that we may know You....

Come in Equador, come in David: Have you got your reading glasses on? Is your mind focused?

Aionios punishment/ aionios kolasis is a calibre of punishment, not of duration but of quality. It is NOT unending madness of torture!

Aionios is NOT a time related word, but a dimension of knowing God in quality or a calibre of experience.

 

[FineLinen]

No I can't. Nor will I force an answer where one is not necessary. I know nothing of them or their Salvation. God is just, I do know that.

Dear Yahkov: All I am asking of you is to reach deep within your heart and soul. I know God is just, it flows from His Love essence. He sees every sparrow fall, and most assuredly every last wee child who falls this very hour X 24 X 7 X 365!

Every last one!

 

[FineLinen]

Most Christians believe in an age of innocence. Matthew 18:10 Do sinners have angels?

Yup! Every last member of our race are born sinners, not by our choice, but "by reason of Him who made it so".

The biggie problem is this: how does the "accountability" concept deal with the nature of sin?

HOW?

 

[renniks]

Yup! Every last member of our race are born sinners, not by our choice, but "by reason of Him who made it so".

The biggie problem is this: how does the "accountability" concept deal wa baby ith the nature of sin?

HOW?

So a baby who cannot yet understand right and wrong is a sinner?

 

[renniks]

Something else I find interesting... Revelations the saints that are martyred, cry for Justice upon their oppressors. If God intends to let everyone in, the murdered and the murderers will be mixed together. How is that just? You seem to be of the opinion then that the murderers will repent.... I find no evidence for that in scripture or the physical world. Knowing that evil will finally get its due, and will be cast away far from the righteous is a great relief.

 

[FineLinen]

So a baby who cannot yet understand right and wrong is a sinner?

Correct!

Sin is not doing stuff, sin is our nature.

That, my friend, is exactly why we have two powerful equations in Scripture.

" As in Adam ALL die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive."

Adam1 = the many/polus "made sinners" >>>>

The Last Adam>>>>The many/polus "made righteous."

 

[FineLinen]

Something else I find interesting... Revelations the saints that are martyred, cry for Justice upon their oppressors. If God intends to let everyone in, the murdered and the murderers will be mixed together. How is that just? You seem to be of the opinion then that the murderers will repent.... I find no evidence for that in scripture or the physical world. Knowing that evil will finally get its due, and will be cast away far from the righteous is a great relief.

My friend: It is not a matter of God "letting everyone in". Pure justice requires change and transformation, the vilest of the vile will get their "due".

Welcome to our God the consuming Fire

 

[Yahkov]

Dear Yahkov: All I am asking of you is to reach deep within your heart and soul. I know God is just, it flows from His Love essence. He sees every sparrow fall, and most assuredly every last wee child who falls this very hour X 24 X 7 X 365!

Every last one!

I don't do such a thing to rationalize Biblical authority.

 

[FineLinen]

I don't do such a thing to rationalize Biblical authority.

You need not rationalize anything of our God. He is the standard by which all stands and falls.

People were overwhelmed with amazement. "He has done everything well," they said. "He even makes the deaf hear and the mute speak."

He does all things well, the radical ALL

 

[Yahkov]

You need not rationalize anything of our God. He is the standard by which all stands and falls.

He does all things well, the radical ALL

I agree. And He has made the way of Salvation very clear. Even to the point of coming down to teach and die for us, fulfilling what His very Word has said about Him from the very start.

Could you then explain to me why an atheist enters into the Kingdom?

 

[FineLinen]

I agree. And He has made the way of Salvation very clear. Even to the point of coming down to teach and die for us, fulfilling what His very Word has said about Him from the very start.

Could you then explain to me why an atheist enters into the Kingdom?

Friend: One is only an atheist until one small glimpse of the One who changes crawling creatures into heavenly by the process of metamorphoo!

 

[Yahkov]

Friend: One is only an atheist until one small glimpse of the One who changes crawling creatures into heavenly by the process of metamorphoo!

You just described someone saved by faith. Why veer and try to contemplate, let alone justify, the Salvation of one who does not believe?

If we know someone died an atheist, laying down his or her life to save women and children, why should he or she be saved? If we know a 15 year old rape victim committed suicide, rejecting God in the process, why should he or she be saved?

 

[FineLinen]

You just described someone saved by faith. Why veer and try to contemplate, let alone justify, the Salvation of one who does not believe?

There is only one way the broken and bruised sinners of Adams race come to faith, and it does not originate within himself. NOT!

Ones mind must be opened to Him by our Father. Ones heart must be opened to him, by Abba. It must be granted to him by God. Over 2000 years have slipped by and still the foundation for becoming a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ is>>>>>

You DID NOT choose Me, I chose>>>

Welcome to the One who gives the right to become the children of God, not of flesh, nor the will of man, >>>>

BUT OF GOD