What Does Aionios Mean in Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9? (part 1)

[he-man]

You did. And, I pointed out that Jesus is a person and eternal life is a thing. Jesus Himself spoke of the end of the aion. If Jesus indicated that the aion would end, will it end?

Of course, it means end συντελεια of this age; lifetime αιωνι; αιωνος; Matt 13:39-40; Matthew 13:49; Matthew 24:3

 

[LoveofTruth]

Of course, it means end συντελεια of this age; lifetime αιωνι; αιωνος; Matt 13:39-40; Matthew 13:49; Matthew 24:3

just defining a root word or meaning from words does not always give the meaning.

Scripture defines who eternal life is in relation to believers having eternal life IN them. This eternal life IN them is Jesus Christ In them.

Jesus is the way the truth and the life, in Him is life and the life is the light of men.

 

[Butch5]

just defining a root word or meaning from words does not always give the meaning.

Scripture defines who eternal life is in relation to believers having eternal life IN them. This eternal life IN them is Jesus Christ In them.

Jesus is the way the truth and the life, in Him is life and the life is the light of men.

Two questions. Do Christians die? Do Christians now have access to the Tree of Life.

 

[Butch5]

no , you are mistaken, when talking about eternal life and jesus Christ.He is the life, he is eternal life as many scriptures show. Go back and read my text from before too much to post again.

A person who abide in Him has Jesus Christ (eternal life) abiding in him. But if he abides not in eternal life ( jesus Christ) then he does not have eternal life in him. I know this understanding confounds your teaching and others who try to teach universalism. But thats good, scripture exposed heresies if we walk in the light.

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15)

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

etc etc etc

John is speaking of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit through which God will raise the dead. Christians will get eternal life at the resurrection. To live forever one needs access to the Tree of Life. If Christians had it now they wouldn't die, however, they do.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Two questions. Do Christians die? Do Christians now have access to the Tree of Life.

You are far from the truth here

Proverbs 13:12 KJV
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life."

Proverbs 11:30 KJV
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise."

Proverbs 3:13,18,19 KJV
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding....
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. 19 The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."( "Hath" present tense. So they have life at the time jesus poke that)

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."(Present tense, "hath" and "is")

John 15:5
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the samebringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

 

[LoveofTruth]

John is speaking of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit through which God will raise the dead. Christians will get eternal life at the resurrection. To live forever one needs access to the Tree of Life. If Christians had it now they wouldn't die, however, they do.

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."( "Hath" present tense. So they have life at the time jesus poke that)

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."(Present tense, "hath" and "is")

John 15:5
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and Iin him, the samebringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye cando nothing."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

 

[he-man]

just defining a root word or meaning from words does not always give the meaning.

Scripture defines who eternal life is in relation to believers having eternal life IN them. This eternal life IN them is Jesus Christ In them.
Jesus is the way the truth and the life, in Him is life and the life is the light of men.

And....?

 

[Butch5]

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."( "Hath" present tense. So they have life at the time jesus poke that)

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."(Present tense, "hath" and "is")

John 15:5
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and Iin him, the samebringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye cando nothing."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

Posting passages of Scripture without commentary is of no avail. It's obvious that I understand this differently than you do. However, so far all you've done is post passages of Scripture that you believe support your point. You've not addressed those that create problems for you view.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Posting passages of Scripture without commentary is of no avail. It's obvious that I understand this differently than you do. However, so far all you've done is post passages of Scripture that you believe support your point. You've not addressed those that create problems for you view.

I posted scriptures that prove that Jesus Christ Himself, is eternal life. And he is not an age, or temporary. I believe i said this a few times

 

[Butch5]

I posted scriptures that prove that Jesus Christ Himself, is eternal life. And he is not an age, or temporary. I believe i said this a few times

Actually, the passage don't say that Jesus Christ is eternal life. I'm sure you realize that the Bible doesn't speak. Therefore one must interpret what they read. In language there are both literal and figurative uses of words and phrases. If one understands literally something a writer mean figuratively, they are misunderstanding what was written. I've already pointed out that John was referring to the Spirit when he said that eternal life abides in them. And, once again, you've not addressed the passages that are contrary to what you say.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Actually, the passage don't say that Jesus Christ is eternal life. I'm sure you realize that the Bible doesn't speak. Therefore one must interpret what they read. In language there are both literal and figurative uses of words and phrases. If one understands literally something a writer mean figuratively, they are misunderstanding what was written. I've already pointed out that John was referring to the Spirit when he said that eternal life abides in them. And, once again, you've not addressed the passages that are contrary to what you say.

you are totally wrong and easily proven wrong, consider the verses again

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15)

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not theSon of God hath not life."

 

[LoveofTruth]

Actually, the passage don't say that Jesus Christ is eternal life. I'm sure you realize that the Bible doesn't speak. Therefore one must interpret what they read. In language there are both literal and figurative uses of words and phrases. If one understands literally something a writer mean figuratively, they are misunderstanding what was written. I've already pointed out that John was referring to the Spirit when he said that eternal life abides in them. And, once again, you've not addressed the passages that are contrary to what you say.

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15)

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

 

[Butch5]

you are totally wrong and easily proven wrong, consider the verses again

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:15)

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not theSon of God hath not life."

Which passage says Jesus is eternal life? Actually, refuted your own argument. How can eternal life be in Jesus it is Jesus?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Which passage says Jesus is eternal life? Actually, refuted your own argument. How can eternal life be in Jesus it is Jesus?

The life is in His Son and when we are IN Him we are in the life , eternal life

read all the verses especially the ones that correct your view

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

The life is in His Son and when we are IN Him we are in the life , eternal life

read all the verses especially the ones that correct your view

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

You still haven't shown me which passage says Jesus is eternal life. Rather, you've given me an inference that you've drawn from the passage. Are you literally inside of Jesus? John said, the word became flesh. Jesus became a man. How exactly are you inside of His body? Did you read what I said about a literal and figurative use of language? I think any reasonable person is going to understand that John meant being in Christ in a figurative sense and not literally inside the body of the man Jesus Christ. But even still, as I said, you've refuted your own argument. If eternal life is in Jesus then it can't be Jesus.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You still haven't shown me which passage says Jesus is eternal life. Rather, you've given me an inference that you've drawn from the passage. Are you literally inside of Jesus? John said, the word became flesh. Jesus became a man. How exactly are you inside of His body? Did you read what I said about a literal and figurative use of language? I think any reasonable person is going to understand that John meant being in Christ in a figurative sense and not literally inside the body of the man Jesus Christ. But even still, as I said, you've refuted your own argument. If eternal life is in Jesus then it can't be Jesus.

Jesus Christ is the true Light that eightieth every man that cometh into the world John 1:9. I am speaking of the Spirit of the Son , Jesus Christ and the Spirit of the Father. God is a spirit.

and Paul said

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Jesus Christ has always existed He is the Son of God from eternity

we also read of

Galatians 4:6
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

John 15:1-7 KJV)
"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit...4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, .."

we also read of the Father in believers as well as the Son

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

2 John 1:9
"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."


"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

The Word was God and the Word was made flesh, and we are born again by the word of God, the seed sown in the heart. This seed, word, Light, truth, is Jesus Christ in us

 

[Butch5]

Jesus Christ is the true Light that eightieth every man that cometh into the world John 1:9. I am speaking of the Spirit of the Son , Jesus Christ and the Spirit of the Father. God is a spirit.

and Paul said

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Jesus Christ has always existed He is the Son of God from eternity

we also read of

Galatians 4:6
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

John 15:1-7 KJV)
"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit...4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, .."

we also read of the Father in believers as well as the Son

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

2 John 1:9
"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."


"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

The Word was God and the Word was made flesh, and we are born again by the word of God, the seed sown in the heart. This seed, word, Light, truth, is Jesus Christ in us

You're all over the place. First you're post that one is in Jesus and then that Jesus is in them. These don't address what you said, which was that Jesus is eternal life. The word. aionios, is an adjective not a noun therefore it's not a person, it's a description.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're all over the place. First you're post that one is in Jesus and then that Jesus is in them. These don't address what you said, which was that Jesus is eternal life. The word. aionios, is an adjective not a noun therefore it's not a person, it's a description.

wrong, Jesus is the life the truth, the way, eternal life, the true Light that eightieth every man that cometh into the world.

He is the word of life. There are many ways of expressing His spiritual life and this life is him. He said I am the way the truth and the life

again, you seem to not be able to accept the simple scriptures I show. Perhaps because you have top repent of your doctrine yu have been teaching all over the place.

I can only encourage humility in your answers and admit error

some verses are as clear as fay to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"(1 John 1"1-2 KJV)

Jesus Christ was "with the Father"as He said himself


John 17:5 KJV
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

and John says He was with God also and was God

John 1:1,4 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....in Him was life..."

and how do you suppose a person who hates his brother no longer has eternal life abiding (remaining) IN him?

here we see that eternal life is 'IN" him. This eternal life is Jesus Christ and in Him is life.

1 John 3:15
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

John comes right out and says the Son of God is God and eternal life

"
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Grammar won't help you here and running to find a Greek subtle meaning won't either. How often when some doctrines are easily exposed to many rush in a frantic search for some remote Greek excuse to try and avoid the obvious.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're all over the place

No, I'm just rightly dividing the word of truth. All these points connect and are saying what I am saying as well.

so universalism is proven false and all who deny that Jesus Christ is in them are proven false as well and reprobate as Paul said in 2 Cor 13:5

take heed

 

[Butch5]

No, I'm just rightly dividing the word of truth. All these points connect and are saying what I am saying as well.

so universalism is proven false and all who deny that Jesus Christ is in them are proven false as well and reprobate as Paul said in 2 Cor 13:5

take heed

Word of Truth, how is it that you ignore evidence when seeking the truth? You presented a fallacious argument to start the discussion. Since then you've not provided a single passage that say what you claim. Instead you've given passage from which you've inferred your doctrine. In addition you've not addressed the passages or questions that refute what you claim.