What Does Aionios Mean in Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9? (part 1)

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
aionios%2Beternity%2B1.jpg


Recently I’ve spent a fair bit of time interacting with some of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Universalists. I’ve read some of their material, including one of the best books supporting their view. I have engaged with them in debates on forums. The Universalists I’ve been engaging with are Christians who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation. They realize that many people die without accepting Jesus. They agree with other Christians that these unbelievers will be resurrected to face judgment. But they believe the purpose of that judgment, and of the suffering the unrighteous will endure, is to lead them to accept Christ. These Universalists believe that everyone eventually will accept Christ and be released from their time of judgment in the lake of fire and be accepted into God’s eternal kingdom.

There are many arguments for and against Universalism. Not only are there many arguments, there are many types of arguments. Some of the arguments are based on theological principles, others on philosophical reasoning, and still others on the interpretation of specific passages and verses. Of course, many arguments are a mix of theology, philosophy, and exegesis.

In this article I am going to focus on two verses and one key word. These two verses, if read and interpreted at face value, decisively refute Universalism. Here are those two verses with the key word highlighted:

CSB Matthew 25:46 "And they will go away into eternal (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

CSB 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal (aionios) destruction from the Lord's presence and from His glorious strength

If the punishment of the unrighteous is eternal, then Universalism is not true. Likewise, if the unrighteous suffer destruction which is eternal, then of course they will not be saved.

The Universalist response to this evidence which is fatal to their view is to argue that aionios should not be translated “eternal”. Their arguments may be convincing to some, but they are not convincing to me. But I don’t expect you to just take my word for it. I will try to explain the evidence which shows that in the context of Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9, the many different teams of translators who chose “eternal” or “everlasting” to translate aionios were correct to do so. Beginning in Part 2 of this post, I will try to explain the weaknesses and errors I see in the Universalist counterarguments. This topic is by nature a bit technical, but I think I can explain it in a way that will make sense even if you’ve never been blessed with the opportunity to study Greek or linguistics.

1. Defining Aionios

Most words have a range of meaning. Words tend to have several different precise meanings which are all related. This can be easily seen by looking at a good English dictionary.

Consider the verb “fly”. It has a number of related meanings (this list is not complete):

1. To move through the air by means of wings
Birds fly south in winter.
2. To move or travel by air
We flew to Seattle for vacation.
3. To pilot an aircraft or spacecraft
The crew flew from New York to Mexico City.
4. To rise in or be carried through the air by the wind
Dust and pollen flew through the air.
5. To float or flutter in the air
Pennants flying from buildings.
6.To pass by swiftly
The vacation flew by.
7. To cause to float of flutter in the wind
Fly a kite.
(These definitions and sentences are taken from The American Heritage Student Dictionary, 1998, Houghton Milton, pg. 393).​

You’ll notice that for each definition of “fly” the dictionary included a sample sentence. Gathering real life examples of sentences spoken or written by native speakers of a language is one of the main ways a lexicographer (a person who makes a dictionary) determines the various definitions of words. The range of meaning of aionios in the New Testament can be determined using this method. Some words are not used frequently enough in the New Testament to determine their meaning, and in these cases it is necessary to look for examples in Greek outside the New Testament from as close to the same time and location as the Biblical authors as possible. Fortunately, aionios occurs 71 times in the New Testament. This is enough data to come up with a good list of definitions. Later we will consider some examples from outside the New Testament.

1.1 Defining aionios using New Testament examples

We will want to choose examples where the meaning is obvious. There are some sentences where the meaning is not obvious. For example:

ESV Jn. 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal (aionios) life.

If this sentence is taken all by itself, out of context, there is not enough in the sentence to determine what aionios means. We might guess that it is something good, but it could mean “good”, “happy”, “safe”, “successful”, “fruitful”, “meaningful”, or many other things. Thankfully, as we’ll soon see, there are other sentences where the meaning of aionios is quite obvious.

Just as there were multiple, related meanings of “fly”, we will see some related meanings for aionios. Specifically, we will see a slight difference in meaning depending on whether the sentence using aionios is (1) looking forward in time, (2) back in time, or (3) at the whole of time, both forward and backward.

1.1.1. New Testament verses where aionios is looking forward in time.

ESV Rom. 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal (aionios) life;

In this example aionios life is seen to be equivalent to immortality. Since immortality means never dying, aionios life is life that never ends. Here we see one common meaning:

aionios: that which continues in time without ever ending, eternal

There are other verses where this definition is equally clear:

ESV Jn. 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal (aionios) life.

Because having aionios life is the opposite of perishing, it stands to reason that this means life which never ends.

ESV 2 Cor. 4:18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal (aionios).

Here aionios is seen to be the opposite of transient. The Greek word translated “transient” is proskairos and means “of what continues for a limited time” (from the Friberg Greek Lexicon). So, aionios refers to things which do not continue only for a limited time.

We are truly blessed to have such clear examples of the meaning of aionios when looking forward in time in the New Testament. Aionios life is immortal life, it is the life of one who does not perish, and aionios is the opposite of something lasting for a limited time. In other words, all those Bible translation teams for all the various translations used widely by Christians got it right. Aionios does in fact mean eternal.

Because the specific uses of aionios we are concerned with (Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9) look forward in time, we might stop here. But let’s briefly look at the other two related meanings of aionios which are found in the New Testament.

1.1.2. New Testament verses where aionios is looking back in time.

There are just three verses in the New Testament where aionios is used in a setting which is looking backwards into time as opposed to looking forward or looking at all time. Here they are. I’ve included two translations of each:

CSB Romans 16:25 Now to Him who has power to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation about Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept silent for long ages (kronos aionios)

ESV Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages (kronois aionion)

CSB 2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV 2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began (pro kronon aionion),

CSB Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who cannot lie, promised before time began (pro kronon aionion).

ESV Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began (pro kronon aionion)

Note: Greek words change their endings depending on their grammatical use in a sentence, as some English words do (i.e., sent and send). Thus, “aionion” in the sentences above is the same Greek word as “aionios” and “kronon” is the same as “kronos.”
.
Those who have studied the phrases in these passages have seen two possibilities.

1. When only looking backward in time, aionios may be used to refer to a very long but limited period of time . The main argument for this is that the Greek preposition pro usually means “before” when referring to time. Kronos means time. It appears impossible for anything to happen “before eternity past”, therefore it is reasoned that aionios here cannot literally mean “without beginning”, but must mean something like “going way back”.

A second argument in favor of this view is that in Titus 1:2 it is said that God “promised”. Promises are usually made to someone who can hear them, which would seem to imply that someone (like Adam or perhaps Abraham) is in mind. If this is true, aionios obviously cannot be referring to eternity past, since no one existed in eternity past accept God.

2. The above argument initially sounds airtight, and when I started researching this issue I thought it was probably correct, although it produced a definition for aionios from three verses looking back in time which did not seem neatly symmetrical to the definitions for aionios which are clearly seen in the many verses which look forward in time or look at all time. It turns out that there is evidence to support the possibility that even in these three verses, aionios, means “without beginning”, and is referring to what we call “eternity past”.

The phrase pro kronon aionion may be an idiomatic way of saying “from all eternity past”. Consider a similar phrase in Jude 1:25:

CSB Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time (pro pantos tou aionos), now and forever. Amen.

It will help to realize that aionos is the plural of the noun aion, not a form of the adjective aionios. A word for word literal translation of pro pantos tou aionos would be “before all the ages”. Surely Jude did not intend to leave a gap in time here so that God received glory before the all ages, then there is a gap during the past ages up until “now” when He starts to receive glory again. Jude seems to be using pro pantos tou aionos here to include all time in the past. It seems that pro kronon aionion could be used in a similar way meaning “throughout all past time back into eternity”.

As far as God making a promise in Titus 1:2, it is possible to make a promise to one’s self about something you intend to later do for someone else. In God’s case, such a “promise” would be 100% certain to later be fulfilled, and would later be revealed to us. Concerning Titus 1:2, Henry Alford makes precisely this same argument:

promised from eternal ages (the very distinct use of πρὸ χρόνων αἰωνίων in 2 Timothy 1:9, where the meaning ‘from ancient times’ is precluded, should have kept Commentators from endeavouring to fix that sense on the words here. The solution of the difficulty, that no promise was actually made till the race of man existed, must be found by regarding, as in 2 Tim. l. c., the construction as a mixed one,—compounded of the actual promise made in time, and the divine purpose from which that promise sprung, fixed in eternity. Thus, as there God is said to have given us grace in Christ from eternal ages, meaning that the gift took place as the result of a divine purpose fixed from eternity, so here He is said to have promised eternal life from eternal ages, meaning that the promise took place as the result of a purpose fixed from eternity. (from Alford, Henry. "Commentary on Titus 1:2". Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. https:Titus 1 Commentary - Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. 1863-1878.)​

My conclusion is that when looking back in time, aionios might refer to “a very long time ago”, but more likely refers to “a time without beginning, from eternity past”. Even if it refers to “a very long time ago”, this meaning of a long, but limited time is ONLY found in passages looking back in time in the New Testament, never in passages looking forward in time.

1.1.3. New Testament verses where aionios is looking at all time

Where aionios refers to God, or God’s purposes, it is most likely and natural that it means “time without beginning and without end”. Here are some examples:

ESV Rom. 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

CSB Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to serve the living God?

1.1.4. Conclusion from the examples we have looked at

Aionios means:

1. “for time without end,” “continuing for all eternity,” “permanent,” “never ending,” “eternal” when referring to the future.
2. either “for a long time into the past,” or, more likely “from time without beginning,” “from eternity past,” when referring to the past.
3. “for all eternity,”,when referring to God, looking both back in time to eternity past and forward to eternity future.​

Looking at all the uses of aionios in the New Testament, I cannot find a single sentence where the definitions given above are not an excellent fit.

1.2 Defining aionios using Greek lexicons

By looking at sample sentences from the New Testament, we have just done some of the work which is done by those who make Greek lexicons. Of course, the people who make Greek lexicons are experts at this type of work, so we will want to compare our conclusions with theirs. The Lexicons I use most frequently are: (1) The Friberg Greek Lexicon, (2) Thayer Greek Lexicon, and (3) Danker Lexicon (these three I have as part of the BibleWorks program), and (4) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature which is often referred to as BDAG. I did not cherry-pick these lexicons. They are honestly the ones I most frequently use. Many scholars consider BDAG to be the “gold standard”.

All four of these lexicons agree very closely with the definitions we found above by looking at example sentences. That’s not surprising since they are looking at the same sentences in the New Testament! Here’s a summary of their definitions. For two of the lexicons I provide summaries because the full entries are long, but I encourage you to look and see for yourself that I have not left out any part of an entry that is contrary to the definitions given above:

1.2.1 The Friberg Lexicon

The Friberg Lexicon entry:

αἰώνιος, ον (sometimes ος, ία, ον) eternal, everlasting, opposite πρόσκαιρος (temporary, transitory); (1) of God without beginning or end, eternal (RO 16.26); (2) without beginning (RO 16.25); (3) without end, everlasting (2C 5.1); (4) neuter singular αἰώνιον as an adverb for all time, forever

1.2.2 A Summary of Thayer’s definitions

1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting:​

1.2.3 Danker’s Lexicon Entry

αἰώνιος, α, ον [αἰών] – 1. ‘relating to a period of time extending far into the past’, long ages ago Ro 16:25. In 2 Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2 the prep. πρό invites the rendering before time began. – 2. ‘relating to time without boundaries or interruption’, eternal Ro 16:26; Hb 9:14. – 3. relating to a period of unending duration’, permanent, lasting Lk 16:9; 2 Cor 5:1; Hb 5:9.

1.2.4 A Summary of BDAG’s Entry

αἰώνιος
1. without beginning
2. without beginning or end
3. without end​

1.2.5 Other Lexicons

I was greatly encouraged that my favorite Lexicons unanimously came up with the same list of definitions for aionios which I find by looking at examples in the New Testament. But “Mark’s favorite lexicons” are not the only legitimate sources to check. There are some lexicons and other reference sources which give meanings which support the Universalist view. Some of these lexicons and sources may have been produced by Universalists or others with an axe to grind, but at least one well known lexicon gives an entry which could support the Universalist view.

The Liddel-Scott lexicon, which is available on the very helpful Perseus website, includes the following entry:

αἰώνιος
also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—lasting for an age ( αἰών 11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), μέθη​

“Lasting for an age” is precisely the definition which many Universalists argue for. But on closer inspection, Liddel-Scott’s definition does not appear to be well supported. As far as I can tell, the only New Testament example given is from Hebrew 9:12. Let’s look at that verse, which does use the word aionios:

CSB Hebrews 9:12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal (aionios) redemption.​

It’s hardly obvious that in this sentence aionios means merely “lasting for an age” instead of “lasting forever”. In fact, most of us hope that our redemption does last forever, and the teaching of scripture strongly supports this hope.

correction: In comment #3, ClementofA correctly notes that I missed some New Testament references in Liddel-Scott. I don't have a hard copy of that Lexicon, and I suspect that I only saw part of the entry on my screen. This is a helpful correction. Thanks! However, the other New Testament references also do not include any examples where aionios is looking towards the future and is not referencing something which reasonably could be eternal. In fact, there are no New Testament examples like that. I've checked every one.
When Universalists quote various sources and references concerning aionios, I recommend you ask this question: What sample sentences from the New Testament are given to support aionios referring to a limited time period going into the future? Even lexicons can be wrong.

1.3 Bible Translations

It’s very likely that every Bible translation which you have ever owned or heard preached from translates aionion as “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matthew 25:46. The view I’m arguing for basically says that your English translation in this case is correct.

Here are some of the well-known translations where you will find the phrase “eternal punishment” or “everlasting punishment”: American Standard Version, Christian Standard Bible, English Standard Bible, King James Version, New American Standard, New English Translation, New International Version, New King James Version, New Living Translation, New Revised Standard Version, and the Revised Standard Version.

Are there any translations which support the Universalist view? Yes. Most of them you have probably never heard of, and perhaps for good reason! One you may have heard of is Young’s Literal Translation:

YLT Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

At least Young is consistent! He has both the punishment of the unrighteous and the life of the righteous only lasting for an undefined “age”. He translates aionios in John 3:16 the same way:

YLT John 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Young’s translation is just plain wrong in the way it translates aionios. What does “age-during” even mean? It’s terrible English and it’s a terrible translation. Even for a “literal translation”, the phrase “age-during” is just plain wrong as a definition for aionios. Young has probably made the error of basing the meaning of the adjective aionios on its related noun, aion. This error will be examined in part 2 of this post.

In part 1, I have tried to define aionios and explain why this definition is correct.

The definition of aionios I have explained here leads to the conclusion that based on Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 those found to be unrighteous on judgment day will experience eternal punishment and specifically eternal destruction. Therefore, they will never enter God’s kingdom and Universalism is false.

Starting in part 2, I will examine Universalist arguments related to the meaning of aionios that oppose my view.

This was initially a post on my blog.
 
Last edited:

Philip_B

Bread is Blessed & Broken Wine is Blessed & Poured
Site Supporter
Jul 12, 2016
5,417
5,524
72
Swansea, NSW, Australia
Visit site
✟611,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Surely the point is simply lost in the text Matthew 25:46

καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

κόλασιν αἰώνιον is one outcome and ζωὴν αἰώνιον is another outcome. Fundamentally Universalism robs the Gospel of urgency and the Cross of meaning. The point of the message of Jesus is that this life played out on the mortal stage may seem like the whole play, however it is at the same time played out on the eternal stage where it is but one act of the play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Corbett
Upvote 0

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The Liddel-Scott lexicon, which is available on the very helpful Perseus website, includes the following entry:

αἰώνιος
also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—lasting for an age ( αἰών 11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), μέθη​

“Lasting for an age” is precisely the definition which many Universalists argue for. But on closer inspection, Liddel-Scott’s definition does not appear to be well supported. As far as I can tell, the only New Testament example given is from Hebrew 9:12.


Hi Mark, you seem to have been studying this word aionios quite a bit & putting a lot of thought & effort into it, not just accepting things blindly but thinking for yourself, which is always a good thing. Your articles are always well presented.

Regarding the reference to the Perseus definition, what leads you to the conclusion Heb.9:12 is the only NT example given when several other NT verses are listed under the first entry? Why couldn't the LSJ meanings "lasting for an age" or "perpetual" apply to 2 Tim.1:9, Mt.25:46 or any of the other NT verses cited:

"αἰώνιος , ον, also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—"

"A.lasting for an age (“αἰών11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), “μέθηPl.R. 363d; “ἀνώλεθρον . . ἀλλ᾽ οὐκαἰώνιονId.Lg.904a, cf. Epicur. Sent.28; “αἰ. κατὰ ψυχὴνὄχλησιςId.Nat.131 G.; κακά, δεινά, Phld.Herc. 1251.18, D.1.13; αἰ. ἀμοιβαῖς βασανισθησόμενοι ib.19; “τοῦ αἰ. θεοῦEp.Rom.16.26, Ti.Locr.96c; “οὐ χρονίη μοῦνον . . ἀλλ᾽ αἰωνίηAret.CA1.5; αἰ. διαθήκη, νόμιμον, πρόσταγμα, LXX Ge.9.16, Ex.27.21, To.1.6; “ζωήEv.Matt.25.46, Porph.Abst.4.20; κόλασις Ev.Matt. l.c., Olymp. in Grg.p.278J.; “πρὸ χρόνων αἰ.” 2 Ep.Tim. 1.9: opp. πρόσκαιρος, 2 Ep.Cor. 4.18.
2. holding an office or title for life, perpetual, “γυμνασίαρχοςCPHerm.62.
3. = Lat. saecularis, Phleg.Macr.4.
4. Adv. -ίως eternally, “νοῦς ἀκίνητος αἰ. πάνταὤνProcl.Inst.172, cf. Simp. in Epict.p.77D.; perpetually, μισεῖν Sch.E.Alc.338.
5. αἰώνιον, τό, = ἀείζωον τὸ μέγα, Ps.-Dsc.4.88."

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰώνιος

LSJ above lists Exodus 27:21 where the NIV translates OLAM (AIONIOS, LXX) as "lasting":

In the tent of meeting, outside the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting[OLAM/AIONIOS] ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come. (Exo.27:21, NIV).

Brenton's translation of the LXX says "perpetual".

Another example of aionios, one not listed by LSJ, or AFAIK any other Greek lexicon, is from the ECF John Chrysostom:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom)

The Greek text is on page 137 here:

https://ia801309.us.archive.org/27/...4/chrysostom_pauline_homilies_field_vol_4.pdf

Something that is "eternal" doesn't "cease". Aionios is finite there. Not endless. Compare Mt.25:46 where the same Greek word is used.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Regarding the reference to the Perseus definition, what leads you to the conclusion Heb.9:12 is the only NT example given when several other NT verses are listed under the first entry? Why couldn't the LSJ meanings "lasting for an age" or "perpetual" apply to 2 Tim.1:9, Mt.25:46 or any of the other NT verses cited:

"αἰώνιος , ον, also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—"

"A.lasting for an age (“αἰών11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), “μέθηPl.R. 363d; “ἀνώλεθρον . . ἀλλ᾽ οὐκαἰώνιονId.Lg.904a, cf. Epicur. Sent.28; “αἰ. κατὰ ψυχὴνὄχλησιςId.Nat.131 G.; κακά, δεινά, Phld.Herc. 1251.18, D.1.13; αἰ. ἀμοιβαῖς βασανισθησόμενοι ib.19; “τοῦ αἰ. θεοῦEp.Rom.16.26, Ti.Locr.96c; “οὐ χρονίη μοῦνον . . ἀλλ᾽ αἰωνίηAret.CA1.5; αἰ. διαθήκη, νόμιμον, πρόσταγμα, LXX Ge.9.16, Ex.27.21, To.1.6; “ζωήEv.Matt.25.46, Porph.Abst.4.20; κόλασις Ev.Matt. l.c., Olymp. in Grg.p.278J.; “πρὸ χρόνων αἰ.” 2 Ep.Tim. 1.9: opp. πρόσκαιρος, 2 Ep.Cor. 4.18.
2. holding an office or title for life, perpetual, “γυμνασίαρχοςCPHerm.62.
3. = Lat. saecularis, Phleg.Macr.4.
4. Adv. -ίως eternally, “νοῦς ἀκίνητος αἰ. πάνταὤνProcl.Inst.172, cf. Simp. in Epict.p.77D.; perpetually, μισεῖν Sch.E.Alc.338.
5. αἰώνιον, τό, = ἀείζωον τὸ μέγα, Ps.-Dsc.4.88."

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰώνιος

You are correct about my missing some NT references in the Liddel-Scott entry. Thank you for that correction. I've made a correction not in the OP to indicate this. However, the other New Testament references in Liddel-Scott also do not include an example of aionios looking forward in time and describing something of limited duration. So I feel that my main point still stands.

I'll attempt to address your other points in separate comments.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
LSJ above lists Exodus 27:21 where the NIV translates OLAM (AIONIOS, LXX) as "lasting":

In the tent of meeting, outside the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting[OLAM/AIONIOS] ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come. (Exo.27:21, NIV).

Brenton's translation of the LXX says "perpetual".

Here is the verse:

NIV Exodus 27:21 In the tent of meeting, outside the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come.

You have correctly noted that in the original Hebrew the word translated "lasting" is olam. Unlike aionios, olam can mean either "lasting for a long time", or "lasting for eternity". We now know that the ordinance for Aaron and his sons to keep the lamps burning lasted for a long time, but not for eternity. The NIV does a good job translating this, imo.

The LXX translated olam here with the Greek word aionios. However, it is entirely plausible that the translators of the LXX thought that the ordinances for the priesthood truly were meant to be eternal, even if at times Israel's ability to obey them was interrupted due to the consequences of their sin. They probably had an expectation that this priesthood and it's ordinances would be renewed and continue forever. Do I know for certain that the LXX translators thought this way? Of course not. But it is a reasonable possibility which shows that verses like Exodus 27:21 are insufficient to establish "lasting into the future for a limited age" as a definition for aionios even in the LXX, much less in the New Testament.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Another example of aionios, one not listed by LSJ, or AFAIK any other Greek lexicon, is from the ECF John Chrysostom:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).

That quote from Chrysostom does support aionios meaning "of this age". However, it comes about 300 years after the New Testament was written. If we did not have much data in the New Testament itself to establish the meaning of aionios, then we might be forced to use data from a source three centuries removed. However, the 71 uses of aionios in the New Testament quite clearly support the meaning "eternal".

I would also like to point out how just how strange and contrary to NT usage Chrysostom's Greek sentence is. Here is a graphic to show this:

aionios%2Bkingdom.jpg

Forced to choose between apparently contradictory data in the New Testament (where Christ's Kingdom is described as aionios and the meaning "eternal" fits) and from Chrysostom writing three centuries later (where Satan's kingdom is described as aionios and the meaning is "of this age"), I'm going with the New Testament data! Chrysostom's use of aionios here is so shockingly out of sync with the New Testament usage that I can only think that either the meaning of aionios had changed drastically or else Chrysostom made the ancient equivalent of a typo.

I don't doubt that you may be able to find other examples from outside the New Testament to support your view. Examples in the same century would be a step in the right direction, since words change meaning over time. But even if you find such examples, they will not carry nearly the same weight as the examples from the New Testament itself.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Another example of aionios, one not listed by LSJ, or AFAIK any other Greek lexicon, is from the ECF John Chrysostom:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).


ClementofA, I appreciate the careful research you do on the meaning of aionios. In the quote above you quote John Chrysostom to show an example of aionios meaning “of this age”. That quote does seem to support your view. However, strangely, John Chrysostom also uses aionios in a context where the meaning “eternal” is quite clear.

The English text of the quote below may be found here:

Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Vol. XIII: The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians.: 2 Thessalonians 1:9,10

The Greek text may be found here:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia...._In_epistulam_II_ad_Thessalonicenses,_MGR.pdf

I am adding line numbers in red to help anyone interested match the English translation to the Greek text. These line numbers are from the Greek site, and appear to be their own numbering system. Also, in red, I have noted where Chrysostom uses two important Greek words:

aionios and proskairos

John Chrysostom, Homily 3 on 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10

00431 “Who shall suffer punishment, even eternal (aionios) destruction from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His might, when He shall come to be glorified in His Saints, and to be marveled at in all them that believed.”

00433There are many men, who form good hopes not by abstaining from their sins, but by thinking that hell is not so terrible as it is said to be, but milder than what is threatened, and temporary (proskairos), not eternal (aionios); and about this they philosophize much. 00434 But I could show from many reasons, and conclude from the very expressions concerning hell, that it is not only not milder, but much more terrible than is threatened.00435 But I do not now intend to discourse concerning these things. 00436 For the fear even from bare words is sufficient, though we do not fully unfold their meaning. 00437 But that it is not temporary (proskairos), hear Paul now saying, concerning those who know not God, and who do not believe in the Gospel, that “they shall suffer punishment, even eternal (aionios) destruction.” 00438 How then is that temporary (prokairos) which is everlasting (aionios)?

Honestly, I’m not sure I could have made up stronger evidence to show that aionios means eternal. Chrysostom repeatedly contrasts aionios with proskairos, and insists that something that is aionios cannot be proskairos. Since proskairos means “temporary”, this is very strong support for aionios meaning “eternal”.

But we do not have to depend on Chyrsostom, writing some three centuries after the New Testament, to make the contrast between aionios and proskairos. The Apostle Paul makes the same comparison:

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary(proskairos), but what is unseen is eternal (aionios).
 
Upvote 0

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
In the quote above you quote John Chrysostom to show an example of aionios meaning “of this age”. That quote does seem to support your view. However, strangely, John Chrysostom also uses aionios in a context where the meaning “eternal” is quite clear.

The English text of the quote below may be found here:

Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Vol. XIII: The Homilies of St. John Chrysostom on Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians.: 2 Thessalonians 1:9,10

The Greek text may be found here:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia...._In_epistulam_II_ad_Thessalonicenses,_MGR.pdf

I am adding line numbers to help anyone interested match the English translation to the Greek text. These line numbers are from the Greek site, and appear to be their own numbering system. Also, in red, I have noted where Chrysostom uses two important Greek words:

aionios and proskairos

John Chrysostom, Homily 3 on 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10

00431 “Who shall suffer punishment, even eternal (aionios) destruction from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His might, when He shall come to be glorified in His Saints, and to be marveled at in all them that believed.”

00433There are many men, who form good hopes not by abstaining from their sins, but by thinking that hell is not so terrible as it is said to be, but milder than what is threatened, and temporary (proskairos), not eternal (aionios); and about this they philosophize much. 00434 But I could show from many reasons, and conclude from the very expressions concerning hell, that it is not only not milder, but much more terrible than is threatened.00435 But I do not now intend to discourse concerning these things. 00436 For the fear even from bare words is sufficient, though we do not fully unfold their meaning. 00437 But that it is not temporary (proskairos), hear Paul now saying, concerning those who know not God, and who do not believe in the Gospel, that “they shall suffer punishment, even eternal (aionios) destruction.” 00438 How then is that temporary (prokairos) which is everlasting (aionios)?

Honestly, I’m not sure I could have made up stronger evidence to show that aionios means eternal. Chrysostom repeatedly contrasts aionios with proskairos, and insists that something that is aionios cannot be proskairos. Since proskairos means “temporary”, this is very strong support for aionios meaning “eternal”.

But we do not have to depend on Chyrsostom, writing some three centuries after the New Testament, to make the contrast between aionios and proskairos. The Apostle Paul makes the same comparison:

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary(proskairos), but what is unseen is eternal (aionios).

I understand your interpretation Mark, though let's consider if there might be another equally reasonable interpretation.

Chrysostom is saying some think of punishment as being PROSKAIROS (for a season), rather than AIONION (eonian, pertaining to an eon or eons, age, [long] lasting).

Chrysostom is arguing that Scripture does not say punishment(chastening or corrective discipline) is only for a season, only for a few months, but that it is EONIAN, lasting for a long time, an epoch, age, or ages, eon or eons.

[BTW, similarly, there was an ancient belief of some of the Jewish Rabbis that those who go to Gehenna come out of it later, one view saying they stay up to 12 months maximum.]

The contrast is between a very short time and a very long time.

If you look in English dictionaries, they also make similar contrasts. They say, for example, that "moment" is the opposite [antonym] of "age", eon, etc.. Just as short is the opposite of long.

So i suggest that Chrysostom, and St Paul, was making a similar contrast, between a momentary or seasonal period of time, and another period of time of relatively great duration.

For a meaning of PROSKAIROS being "for a season":

Strong's Greek: 4340. πρόσκαιρος (proskairos) -- in season, i.e. temporary

"It is often claimed that in 2 Corinthians 4:18, “eonian” (aiõnion) must mean “eternal” because it is set in contrast to the word “temporal,” meaning pertaining to time as opposed to eternity. The Greek word, however, translated “temporal” in the AV (proskaira) has no connection with the word for “time” (chronos); in English form, the Greek is literally TOWARD-SEASON, and means “temporary” or “for [only] a part of a season.”

"Contrastive terms need not be antithetical in meaning. Our Lord deemed it sufficient contrast to compare temporary (i.e., a part of a season) with a single season–less than a year (Matt.13:21). Yet here, in 2 Corinthians 4:18, while the contrast is far greater, it does not follow that it is therefore infinite. The contrast is between our afflictions, which last, so to say, but for a brief “partial season,” and our promised, long-enduring “eonian” glory which lasts throughout the oncoming eons, until the consummation, when God is All in all. The eonian life and glory which is our special portion (cp 1 Tim.4:10b; 2 Tim.2:10,11), no more debars the endless life and glory in which we shall participate as well (cp Luke 1:33b; 1 Thess.4:17b; 1 Cor.15:28), than youthful happiness precludes the happiness of maturity.”

Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
A Reply To “Universalism Refuted” Part Four

"Now, in this passage, Paul is using proskairos and aiónios in contrast with each other. But notice that he is not contrasting time (which would be the word "chronos" in Greek) with timelessness. Instead, he is contrasting two different measures of temporal duration (i.e., two different measures of time). In Matthew 13:21, Christ employs proskairos to denote a relatively short measure of time. It is used in reference to those who hear the gospel and endure in their faith for only "a short while" in contrast to those who, after hearing the word, keep it and go on to produce fruit. Christ is not contrasting a temporary period of time with an endless measure of time; rather, Christ is contrasting a relatively short measure of time which does not result in the production of "fruit" with a relatively longer period of time that does (similarly, in Hebrews 11:25, proskairos is translated "a short season" or "fleeting," and denotes the relatively short-lived enjoyment that sin brings). But the opposite of proskairos isn't endless duration, for proskairos doesn't mean finite duration. Its meaning is clearly relative to whatever is in view. Again, when Christ uses the word in Matt 13:21, he isn't contrasting a person who endures in his faith for a finite period of time with a person who endures in his faith for an infinite period of time; he's contrasting a relatively short period of time with a relatively longer period of time (i.e., relative to a person's mortal lifespan)."

"In the context of 2 Corinthians 4-5, proskairos conveys a relatively short measure of time (i.e., duration confined to a mortal lifetime, during which time one can see and experience one's mortal self "wasting away"). Aiónios, on the other hand, while not meaning endless duration, denotes a much longer duration of time (i.e., the duration of the eons to come, the full length of which is not explicitly revealed in Scripture). So when Paul says that "the things that are seen" are proskairos (i.e., fleeting, or pertaining to a relatively short measure of time) while "the things that are unseen" are aiónios (i.e., pertaining to, or enduring through, the eons to come) he places our present, mortal bodies in the former category of things, and our future, immortal bodies in the latter category of things."

"But why does Paul refer to our immortal bodies as "eonian, in the heavens," since this word does not denote endless duration? It's because he has in view the blessing that will be enjoyed exclusively by believers, prior to the time that Paul calls "the consummation" (i.e., when death is abolished by Christ and all are vivified or "made alive" in him). Paul has in view only those who are members of the body of Christ, and the heavenly allotment they alone will enjoy during these coming eons. This blessing for believers (in which they will enjoy immortality in heaven during the final two eons) is eonian in duration, not "eternal." When the last two eons (the eons of Christ's reign) come to an end, the believer will not lose his immortality. He will continue to live. But his life will, at this time, no longer pertain to (or be enduring through) the eons of Christ's reign. The special, eonian salvation he enjoyed as a result of being in the body of Christ will have come to an end. For at this time, God's "purpose of the eons" will have reached its goal: all people will have been made immortal and saved, and God will be "all in all." "

That Happy Expectation: January 2015

Even if by aionion Chrysostom means eternal in 2 Cor. 4:18, he still uses aionios of a finite duration no longer than an age in his other quote. Which would indicate that, as you yourself evidently agree, words often have a range of meanings. This is what universalists usually say re the word aionios. The question, then, is, what is its meaning, in the range of its possible meanings, in key passages that speak of punishment of the lost after Christ's return.
 
Upvote 0

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
1.2.4 A Summary of BDAG’s Entry

αἰώνιος
1. without beginning
2. without beginning or end
3. without end

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, Mark. Your series on aionios has given me a lot to consider.

Re the comment above, i'm wondering if you meant BAGD (c. 1978) rather than BDAG (c.2000 A.D.). Here is a screenshot of BDAG re aion & aionios:

BDAG on aionios

As you can see the first BDAG meaning given for aionios is:

"pert. to a long period of time, long ago"

That is confirmed by my own hardcover copy of BDAG.

This is a very minor detail, of course, & is just a FYI, while it doesn't appear to impact any of your points or your overall conclusions.
 
Upvote 0

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
However, the 71 uses of aionios in the New Testament quite clearly support the meaning "eternal".

What are your thoughts on Jude 1:7 which uses aionios in regards to fire & the judgement of God on Sodom?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Thanks for your thoughtful replies, Mark. Your series on aionios has given me a lot to consider.
Re the comment above, i'm wondering if you meant BAGD (c. 1978) rather than BDAG (c.2000 A.D.). Here is a screenshot of BDAG re aion & aionios:
BDAG on aionios
As you can see the first BDAG meaning given for aionios is:
"pert. to a long period of time, long ago"
That is confirmed by my own hardcover copy of BDAG
.
This is a very minor detail, of course, & is just a FYI, while it doesn't appear to impact any of your points or your overall conclusions.
From your link.

3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod. S. 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting … … 2 Cor 5:1. … Hb 13:20. …Rv 14:6; … 1 Ti 6:16. … 2 Th 2:16. …Hb 9:12…. Mt 25:46;… 2 Th 1:9…. Mt 18:8; 25:41
 
Upvote 0

Butch5

Newbie
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
768
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Mark, you seem to have been studying this word aionios quite a bit & putting a lot of thought & effort into it, not just accepting things blindly but thinking for yourself, which is always a good thing. Your articles are always well presented.

Regarding the reference to the Perseus definition, what leads you to the conclusion Heb.9:12 is the only NT example given when several other NT verses are listed under the first entry? Why couldn't the LSJ meanings "lasting for an age" or "perpetual" apply to 2 Tim.1:9, Mt.25:46 or any of the other NT verses cited:

"αἰώνιος , ον, also α, ον Pl. Ti.37d, Ep.Heb.9.12:—"

"A.lasting for an age (“αἰών11), perpetual, eternal (but dist. fr. ἀΐδιος, Plot.3.7.3), “μέθηPl.R. 363d; “ἀνώλεθρον . . ἀλλ᾽ οὐκαἰώνιονId.Lg.904a, cf. Epicur. Sent.28; “αἰ. κατὰ ψυχὴνὄχλησιςId.Nat.131 G.; κακά, δεινά, Phld.Herc. 1251.18, D.1.13; αἰ. ἀμοιβαῖς βασανισθησόμενοι ib.19; “τοῦ αἰ. θεοῦEp.Rom.16.26, Ti.Locr.96c; “οὐ χρονίη μοῦνον . . ἀλλ᾽ αἰωνίηAret.CA1.5; αἰ. διαθήκη, νόμιμον, πρόσταγμα, LXX Ge.9.16, Ex.27.21, To.1.6; “ζωήEv.Matt.25.46, Porph.Abst.4.20; κόλασις Ev.Matt. l.c., Olymp. in Grg.p.278J.; “πρὸ χρόνων αἰ.” 2 Ep.Tim. 1.9: opp. πρόσκαιρος, 2 Ep.Cor. 4.18.
2. holding an office or title for life, perpetual, “γυμνασίαρχοςCPHerm.62.
3. = Lat. saecularis, Phleg.Macr.4.
4. Adv. -ίως eternally, “νοῦς ἀκίνητος αἰ. πάνταὤνProcl.Inst.172, cf. Simp. in Epict.p.77D.; perpetually, μισεῖν Sch.E.Alc.338.
5. αἰώνιον, τό, = ἀείζωον τὸ μέγα, Ps.-Dsc.4.88."

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰώνιος

LSJ above lists Exodus 27:21 where the NIV translates OLAM (AIONIOS, LXX) as "lasting":

In the tent of meeting, outside the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting[OLAM/AIONIOS] ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come. (Exo.27:21, NIV).

Brenton's translation of the LXX says "perpetual".

Another example of aionios, one not listed by LSJ, or AFAIK any other Greek lexicon, is from the ECF John Chrysostom:

"For that his[Satan's] kingdom is of this age,[αἰώνιος] i.e., will cease with the present age[αιώνι] ..." (Homily 4 on Ephesians, Chapter II. Verses 1-3).

CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Ephesians (Chrysostom)

The Greek text is on page 137 here:

https://ia801309.us.archive.org/27/...4/chrysostom_pauline_homilies_field_vol_4.pdf

Something that is "eternal" doesn't "cease". Aionios is finite there. Not endless. Compare Mt.25:46 where the same Greek word is used.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?


Hi Mark,
It seems you've put a good bit of work into this article. I have to say though that I disagree with your conclusion. I don't believe that aionios is properly translated eternal. While I'm not a universalist I do believe that aionios refers to an age.

It seems to me that the base of your argument is that aionios, the adjective from aion has a different meaning than aion. If this is your argument, again, I disagree. We use adjectives to project a quality of the adjective onto the noun it's modifying.

In your article you spoke of aionios looking forward in the NT and it never meant a finite period of time. I have two points on this. By definition an age is an undefined period of time. Just because the length of an age isn't specified it doesn't necessarily mean it's eternal, it's simply unspecified. The other point is that the Septuagint does use aionios of finite periods of time while looking into the future. Here are a four passages. Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 6:15, Numbers 15:15, and Jeremiah 27:5.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
correction: In comment #3, ClementofA correctly notes that I missed some New Testament references in Liddel-Scott. I don't have a hard copy of that Lexicon, and I suspect that I only saw part of the entry on my screen. This is a helpful correction. Thanks! However, the other New Testament references also do not include any examples where aionios is looking towards the future and is not referencing something which reasonably could be eternal. In fact, there are no New Testament examples like that. I've checked every one.
.
Here are a couple of links where LSJ can be D/L. Also it comes as a free module for the free Bible program E-Sword. That's the one I use.


http://arrow.latrobe.edu.au:8080/vital/access/manager/Repository/latrobe:34576

A Greek-English lexicon
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,608.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I normally use the Theological Wordbook of the NT. It identifies 4 NT uses for eternal:

1. Of God, e.g. Rom 16:26. In that use, it's not just that God lives forever, but that he his eternity transcends time.
2. Of divine possessions, e.g. 2 Cor 4:18. Again, the things of God are transcend this world. They don't just last forever. Eternity isn't just like something in our lives that lasts an hour, but longer. It's in a different realm.
3. Eschatological, e.g. the eternal inheritance of Heb 9:15. Again, it's in the heavenly realm.
4. A long time. The examples seem to be of the past, e.g. Rom 16:25

I don't know what eternal life is, but it's probably not just like here but longer. I suspect it's of a different kind.

I'm not a universalist. But most of the eschatological images have OT references. In many of the OT passages, the eternal fires were in the past and are no longer present. So what it means is utter destruction, not destruction where the act of destroying lasts forever.

So I'd be careful about assuming that eternal punishment, and particularly the common phrase eternal destruction, means that the act of punishing goes on and on infinitely in the same kind of time as we have now.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
... In your article you spoke of aionios looking forward in the NT and it never meant a finite period of time. I have two points on this. By definition an age is an undefined period of time. Just because the length of an age isn't specified it doesn't necessarily mean it's eternal, it's simply unspecified. The other point is that the Septuagint does use aionios of finite periods of time while looking into the future. Here are a four passages. Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 6:15, Numbers 15:15, and Jeremiah 27:5.
Aionios does not occur in Lev 6:15 or Jer 27:5.
Exodus 31:16
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual [αἰώνιος/aionios] covenant.​
In this verse aionios is paired with "throughout their generations". If the generations of Israel will eventually cease to exist then "aionios" might be said to refer to a finite period otherwise by definition it means everlasting.

Numbers 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever [עולם/olam] in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
The same comment as above. If the generations of Israel will eventually cease to exist then "aionios" might be said to refer to a finite period otherwise by definition it means for ever.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Butch5

Newbie
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
768
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,557.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I normally use the Theological Wordbook of the NT. It identifies 4 NT uses for eternal:

1. Of God, e.g. Rom 16:26. In that use, it's not just that God lives forever, but that he his eternity transcends time.
2. Of divine possessions, e.g. 2 Cor 4:18. Again, the things of God are transcend this world. They don't just last forever. Eternity isn't just like something in our lives that lasts an hour, but longer. It's in a different realm.
3. Eschatological, e.g. the eternal inheritance of Heb 9:15. Again, it's in the heavenly realm.
4. A long time. The examples seem to be of the past, e.g. Rom 16:25

I don't know what eternal life is, but it's probably not just like here but longer. I suspect it's of a different kind.

I'm not a universalist. But most of the eschatological images have OT references. In many of the OT passages, the eternal fires were in the past and are no longer present. So what it means is utter destruction, not destruction where the act of destroying lasts forever.

So I'd be careful about assuming that eternal punishment, and particularly the common phrase eternal destruction, means that the act of punishing goes on and on infinitely in the same kind of time as we have now.

Yeah, Jude gave an example. He said that Sodom and Gomorrah were an example of aionios fire. It's easy to see that those cities are not still burning.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yeah, Jude gave an example. He said that Sodom and Gomorrah were an example of aionios fire. It's easy to see that those cities are not still burning.
I don't think so.
Jude 1:7
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Note the adjective "eternal" only modifies "fire." It does not modify "example,""suffering" or "vengeance."
 
Upvote 0

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Here is the verse:

NIV Exodus 27:21 In the tent of meeting, outside the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come.

You have correctly noted that in the original Hebrew the word translated "lasting" is olam. Unlike aionios, olam can mean either "lasting for a long time", or "lasting for eternity". We now know that the ordinance for Aaron and his sons to keep the lamps burning lasted for a long time, but not for eternity. The NIV does a good job translating this, imo.

The LXX translated olam here with the Greek word aionios. However, it is entirely plausible that the translators of the LXX thought that the ordinances for the priesthood truly were meant to be eternal, even if at times Israel's ability to obey them was interrupted due to the consequences of their sin. They probably had an expectation that this priesthood and it's ordinances would be renewed and continue forever. Do I know for certain that the LXX translators thought this way? Of course not. But it is a reasonable possibility which shows that verses like Exodus 27:21 are insufficient to establish "lasting into the future for a limited age" as a definition for aionios even in the LXX, much less in the New Testament.

Hi Mark,

That is an interesting viewpoint, one i don't recall ever hearing before.

First i'd just note that for the 2nd largest Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church (of 250 million), the inspired bible for the OT is the LXX. On that basis aionios in Exo.27:21 is God's inspired word. And as He knew the ordinance would not be eternal, He used a word, aionios, that does not mean eternal, at least not in that context.

BTW, as i expect you are aware, the LXX was used as the Bible of the early church. It was also quoted in the NT more often than the Hebrew OT. I've read varying percentages re how often the LXX is quoted relative to the Hebrew. The highest figure was that 80 or 90% of NT quotes from the OT are from the LXX.

You said:

"Unlike aionios, olam can mean either "lasting for a long time", or "lasting for eternity"."

If that were true then why do many Greek scholars (as in lexicons, commentaries, etc) speak of aionios as agelong, lasting for an age, not endless, indeterminate as to duration, long ages ago, enduring, a long period of time, of or belonging to an age, lifelong, & likewise? Included in such Greek scholars i refer to are BDAG, LSJ, TDNT, NIDNTTE, Vine, Strongs (new & online), Danker (2009), Zodhiates, Bullinger, Vincent, Muraoka, Moulton, etc. The vast majority of these i've confirmed from my bookshelves & are not AFAIK universalist friendly. Many others could be added to the same conclusion.

Re what the LXX translators thought of the meaning of aionios, they used it repeatedly as a translation of olam, knowing that olam is used of durations that are finite. They rendered olam as aionios in OT passages where the meaning must be finite, so they must have believed that aionios can refer to finite duration. Consider the following passages, many (if not all) of which are speaking of the finite duration of olam/aionios:

I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient(aionios) times. (Psa.77:5)

Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone, which your fathers have set up. (Prov.22:28)

Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone. Don’t encroach on the fields of the fatherless: (Prov.23:10)

Those from among you will rebuild the ancient(aionios) ruins; You will raise up the age-old(aionios) foundations;... (Isa 58:12a)

Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because the enemy has said against you, Aha! and, The ancient(aionios) high places are ours in possession; (Ezek.36:2)

Because of thy having an enmity age-during(aionios)... (Ezek.35:5a)

They will rebuild the perpetual(aionios) ruins and restore the places that were desolate; (Isa.61:4a)

I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever(aionios): yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God. (Jonah 2:6)

He beat back His foes; He gave them lasting(aionios) shame. (Psa.78:66)

Will you keep the old(aionios) way, which wicked men have trodden (Job 22:15)

Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life(aionios)? (Job 41:4)

’Will you not fear me?" says The Lord "will you not be cautious in front of my face? The One who appointed the sand to be the boundary to the sea, by perpetual(aionios) decree, that it will not cross over though it will be agitated it is not able and though the waves resound within her yet she will not overstep it. (Jer.5:22)

Their land will be an object of horror and of lasting(aionios) scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will shake their heads. (Jer.18:16)

Behold I will send, and take all the kindreds of the north, saith the Lord, and Nabuchodonosor the king of Babylon my servant: and I will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all the nations that are round about it: and I will destroy them, and make them an astonishment and a hissing, and perpetual (aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:9)

And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans; and I will make it perpetual(aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:12)

In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual(aionios) sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. (Jer.51:39)

When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old(aionios), with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living; (Ezek.26:20)

I will make you a perpetual(aionios) desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited; and you shall know that I am Yahweh. (Ezek.35:9)

From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian(aionios) life and these to reproach for eonian(aionios) repulsion. (Daniel 12:2)

Thus says Yahweh, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old(aionios) paths, ‘Where is the good way?’ and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ (Jer.6:16)

For my people have forgotten me, they have burned incense to false gods; and they have been made to stumble in their ways, in the ancient(aionios) paths, to walk in byways,
in a way not built up; (Jer.18:15)

Then he remembered the days of old(aionios), Moses and his people, saying, Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? where is he who put his holy Spirit in the midst of them? (Isa.63:11)

“Don’t be afraid; for you shall not be ashamed: neither be confounded; for you shall not be disappointed: for you shall forget the shame of your youth(aionios); and the reproach of your widowhood you shall remember no more. (Isa 54:4)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Mark Corbett

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 1, 2017
893
744
59
Severn, NC
Visit site
✟172,170.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
First i'd just note that for the 2nd largest Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church (of 250 million), the inspired bible for the OT is the LXX. On that basis aionios in Exo.27:21 is God's inspired word. And as He knew the ordinance would not be eternal, He used a word, aionios, that does not mean eternal, at least not in that context.

I wish I had time to attempt to reply in detail to all you write. I do not. I do feel that quite a few of the things you write about I addressed already in the OP to this thread, or in Part 2 and Part 3. I will reply to the comment above.

You've taught me something I didn't know. I did not know that the Eastern Orthodox Church considers the LXX to be the inspired text of the OT. Thanks for sharing this.

Do you share their view? If you do, we will be stuck on this particular issue. That's because we will have different authoritative sources of truth. While I believe that translations of the Bible are incredibly valuable and, to the extant that they accurately reflect the original they should be considered the Word of God, I do not believe that any translation is perfectly inspired in the same way the original texts are. This rarely produces actual differences in interpretation, but in our case it would produce a difference wrt the meaning of aionios.

My view of the inspiration of Scripture applying fully only to the original text in the original language is a pretty widespread view. That doesn't prove my view is correct. Here is a relevant portion of The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy which many theologically conservative Bible scholars, pastors, and teachers (including little old me) agree with:

Article X.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture, which in the providence of God can be ascertained from available manuscripts with great accuracy. We further affirm that copies and translations of Scripture are the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original.

WE DENY that any essential element of the Christian faith is affected by the absence of the autographs. We further deny that this absence renders the assertion of Biblical inerrancy invalid or irrelevant.
from: Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
You don't have to agree with the Chicago Statement, I'm just letting you know where I'm coming from on this.



BTW, as i expect you are aware, the LXX was used as the Bible of the early church. It was also quoted in the NT more often than the Hebrew OT. I've read varying percentages re how often the LXX is quoted relative to the Hebrew. The highest figure was that 80 or 90% of NT quotes from the OT are from the LXX.

It is true that the NT authors extensively quote from the LXX. Does this prove they considered it to be inspired in the same way the original Hebrew text is? No. I very extensively quote from the NIV when preparing and delivering sermons. That's because I'm delivering my sermons in English to English speaking people. It does not mean that I consider the NIV to be inerrant like the original text. The authors of the New Testament wrote in Greek to people who would be reading in Greek, so of course they often quoted a widely used Greek translation of the OT, namely the LXX.

Their practice tells us that the use of translations is good and helpful, it does not tell us that they considered the LXX to be a perfect, inerrant translation. Their specific quotes of the LXX in the NT may be considered accurate, but this does not extend to the entire LXX (only a tiny fraction of the LXX is quoted). Their quotes do NOT include any example where aionios is looking forward in time and refers to something which is not eternal.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ClementofA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2016
5,459
2,197
Vancouver
✟310,073.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That quote from Chrysostom does support aionios meaning "of this age". However, it comes about 300 years after the New Testament was written. If we did not have much data in the New Testament itself to establish the meaning of aionios, then we might be forced to use data from a source three centuries removed. However, the 71 uses of aionios in the New Testament quite clearly support the meaning "eternal".

I would also like to point out how just how strange and contrary to NT usage Chrysostom's Greek sentence is. Here is a graphic to show this:

aionios%2Bkingdom.jpg

Forced to choose between apparently contradictory data in the New Testament (where Christ's Kingdom is described as aionios and the meaning "eternal" fits) and from Chrysostom writing three centuries later (where Satan's kingdom is described as aionios and the meaning is "of this age"), I'm going with the New Testament data! Chrysostom's use of aionios here is so shockingly out of sync with the New Testament usage that I can only think that either the meaning of aionios had changed drastically or else Chrysostom made the ancient equivalent of a typo.

I don't doubt that you may be able to find other examples from outside the New Testament to support your view. Examples in the same century would be a step in the right direction, since words change meaning over time. But even if you find such examples, they will not carry nearly the same weight as the examples from the New Testament itself.


Mark, what do you think of this example from Josephus (c 37 -100 AD)? He writes around the same time as the New Testament was being written.

"Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment."

According to TDNT, ed Kittel, author Sasse, Vol 1, p.168, on AIDIOS, Sasse remarks concerning Jude 6 "in everlasting chains" & "Cf. for this expression Jos.Bell.,6,434..."of the lifelong imprisonment of John...", with "lifelong" being the Greek word aionios.

That interpretation seems similar to that in the OT of a slave being his masters for olam, i.e. for life.

Here is the Greek & an English translation:

JOSEPHUS, The Jewish War | Loeb Classical Library

If the preview isn't available there, a search of these Greek words may find it as it did when i tried it:

ἐφυλάχθη δ᾽ ὁ μὲν [i.e. Simon] τῷ θριάμβῳ σφάγιον, ὁ δ᾽ Ἰωάννης δεσμοῖς αἰωνίοις.

"... the latter [i.e. Simon] was reserved for execution at the triumph, while John was sentenced to perpetual imprisonment." (Tr. by Thackeray, 1926.)"

"Philo [20 BC - 50 AD, contemporary with Christ] used the exact phraseology we find in Matthew 25:46 - just as Christ used it - in the context of temporal affairs between people of different socio-economic classes:"

" "It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and everlasting punishment (kolasis aiónios) from such as are more powerful" (Fragmenta, Tom. ii., p. 667)."

That Happy Expectation: Eternal or Eonian? Part Five (The Greek Adjective Aiónios)

"It is better absolutely never to make any promise at all than not to assist another willingly, for no blame attaches to the one, but great dislike on the part of those who are less powerful, and intense hatred and long enduring punishment [kolasis aiónios] from those who are more powerful, is the result of the other line of conduct."

Philo: Appendix 2: Fragments

" "It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and everlasting punishment [kolasis aiónios] from such as are more powerful." Here we have the exact terms employed by out Lord, to show that aiónion did not mean endless but did mean limited duration in the time of Christ."

Kolasis

The Jerome Conspiracy: Second Edition
By Michael Wood

[p.39ff]...kolasis eonian quote

The Jerome Conspiracy

The works of Philo Judaeus, the contemporary of Josephus, Volume 4 By Philo (of Alexandria)

The works of Philo Judaeus, the contemporary of Josephus enduring punishment from those who are more powerful&f=false

"Before the New Testament was written:" (1st C BC)

" "The second wall is in all respects like the first but of twice the height. The third circuit is rectangular in plan, and is sixty cubits in height, built of a stone naturally hard and durable [aionios]." (Diodorus Siculus, Library, book 17, chapter 71 section 5)." " [p.45, The Jerome Conspiracy: Second Edition By Michael Wood]

"The same period as the New Testament was being written:" (c 37-100 AD)

" "...as was Jonathon condemned to perpetual[aionios] imprisonment. And now the Romans set fire to the extreme parts of the city, and burnt them down, and entirely demolished its walls." (Flavius Josephus, The War of the Jews, book 6, section 434, as translated by William Whiston)."

Three "hundred years after the New Testament was written:" (c 349-407 AD)

" "Here again he means, that Satan occupies the space under Heaven, and that the incorporeal powers are spirits of the air, under his operation. For that his kingdom is eon enduring [aionios], in other words it will cease with the present eon, hear what he says at the end of the epistle;" (Saint Chrysostum, Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, Homily IV)."

The Jerome Conspiracy: Second Edition
By Michael Wood

The Jerome Conspiracy
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0