What do you think about pi - should it exist?

[Patashu]

How not? Can you calculate pi forever?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_that_π_is_irrational

 

[morningstar2651]

They're in the minority . It's like New Agers getting all excited by the observed effect in quantum mechanics (see: 'What The Bleep Do We Know'). Quantum mechanics is a lot of things, but it doesn't let you channel a 35,000 year old Atlantean deity .

You need to use chakra water, a kabbalah bracelet, and aura goggles to manage that.

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_that_π_is_irrational

No, I can't calculate pi forever, because I'm going to die someday...that, and I have better things to do with my time.

 

[quatona]

As far as I know mathematicians and physicians operate with pi with very good and useful results that we all benefit from. I wouldn´t know why make their work harder by prohibiting its use.

 

[Gottservant]

Ok well, since no one really considers the fact that our God does not communicate with pi to be of any relevance it makes making my point hard.

Furtermore, I asked for a dream of pi and God couldn't give it to me, presumably because it doesn't exist. No doubt you will regard that as inconsequentially circumstantial.

Thankfully morningstar had the confidence to point out that he would die before pi was ever fully calculated; that is exactly the point I am trying to make. It is an abomination.

(Btw - while we are talking about names for pi - this business of differentiating between different kinds of irrationality is vein if you ask me, after all, we use the one word - surely that counts for more than needless semantics)

I must say, I hardly see the point of defending pi. Anyone can come up with a list of random numbers at the drop of a hat, yet somehow if you do it using a formula it is mysterious. Ridiculous!

But in any case, I will tell you that God gave me three separate visions of pi. The first revealed that in reality, pi only exists as an exercise - the way muscle only exists relative to exercise. The second revealed that pi is incomplete - I saw a spiral falling away into an abyss. The third revealed that the only truth that exists in relation to pi is that you yourself truly search for the end of it.

I just wish that I could understand the semantics of it. When we say you can try to divide 22 by 7, what are we saying? That you can try to lift a rock that is heavier than you can lift? That you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Ok, so I have dished out on something that people use, like people use a gun and it seems fair to say that I am arguing good should not happen because of it when clearly it does. But need I say "cars run on flat tyres"? You should be able to work out what I mean by that.

Anyway, the point is that you can't really treat pi as a number. Don't tell me it is more than 3 but more than 4! The number line is just an arbitrary list, just like your shopping list is a list; any other list and you would not know for sure what to do with it. Besides which you can't tell what to do with pi in future, until you've worked out more of what it is in the present.

I propose an exercise to point out that pi cant be treated as a number. Let's see where you would prefer to stop calculating pi? Would you prefer to stop

• at selecting divide
• at dividing over seven
• at adding the last remainder
• OR at keeping the next remainder

???

At this point you are probably wondering why I am keeping on going? Well, what if I did? You would see that as a problem, wouldn't you, that I kept on expecting your attention? Ok, so you see that as a problem, therefore you must see pi as a problem.

I can't be any more reasonable than that.

 

[anonymous1515]

Furtermore, I asked for a dream of pi and God couldn't give it to me, presumably because it doesn't exist. No doubt you will regard that as inconsequentially circumstantial.

Yup. Quite.

Thankfully morningstar had the confidence to point out that he would die before pi was ever fully calculated; that is exactly the point I am trying to make. It is an abomination.

And you will die before the galaxy is ever fully explored. Is that, too, and abomination?

I must say, I hardly see the point of defending pi. Anyone can come up with a list of random numbers at the drop of a hat, yet somehow if you do it using a formula it is mysterious. Ridiculous!

I must say, I hardly see the point of attacking pi. It is a number. Perhaps I will attack the letter K....

That you can't have your cake and eat it too?

Or perhaps have your pie and eat it too. Wow, I'm very funny...

Ok, so I have dished out on something that people use, like people use a gun and it seems fair to say that I am arguing good should not happen because of it when clearly it does. But need I say "cars run on flat tyres"? You should be able to work out what I mean by that.

I cannot. I am convinced, however, that you're pulling our leg. Nobody could ever argue these points and be honest about them.

At this point you are probably wondering why I am keeping on going?

Yup.

Well, what if I did? You would see that as a problem, wouldn't you, that I kept on expecting your attention?

Yup. And I do.

Ok, so you see that as a problem, therefore you must see pi as a problem.

I see your discussion of pi as a problem. I don't see irrational numbers as one.

I can't be any more reasonable than that.

Quite unfortunate.

 

[Washington]

Ok well, since no one really considers the fact that our God does not communicate with pi to be of any relevance it makes making my point hard. . . .


. . . At this point you are probably wondering why I am keeping on going? Well, what if I did? You would see that as a problem, wouldn't you, that I kept on expecting your attention? Ok, so you see that as a problem, therefore you must see pi as a problem.

I can't be any more reasonable than that.

But you could be more intelligible.

 

[Patashu]

Well, I asked God for a dream about gottservant and he could not provide me one. Maybe you don't exist?

 

[morningstar2651]

Pi isn't just a number, and it certainly isn't an abomination.

Pi can be represented with a picture.

 

[Gottservant]

Pi isn't just a number, and it certainly isn't an abomination.

Pi can be represented with a picture.

Wow! Jesus just taught me something: the falsifiability of pi proves gravity.

Look at the sphere, it revolves like the Earth, only the Earth makes revolutions in exactly three dimensions (it does not unravel or make revolutions in more than three dimensions).... so the "infinity" of pi actually has something to do with the density of the Earth (I know the Earth is not infinitely dense, but pi is a diminishing infinity)

Can anyone else see the connection?

I wonder how you would describe it. Like the impossibility of a sphere being divided by its diameter in anything less than three dimensions is the same thing that justifies an infinitely weak force being applied to its mass to keep it whole.

All I was seeing was that if you took the three numbers there (before 4) as literal dimensions, you would never see the Earth do what it does in that picture (yet the path it takes clearly has the simplicity of a diametric line when you look at the horizon).

Put it this way, if I challenged you to make an object that literally was pi, you could not do it (but the Earth is like an object that seems to be described by pi and yet has gravity).

Back to topic, I have to say that pi now seems to me to be an explanation that doesn't fit the context in which it was required (I wonder what that means for maths in God's sight)...

EDIT: re: maths. ... like maybe you can't separate signs from the numbers that use them. or maybe spherical objects are of a higher order to one dimensional objects (and so can't be divided into a lower order) or maybe phenomena like the qualities of an object can be equated with associations to that phenomena... or all three

 

[Eudaimonist]

Wow! Jesus just taught me something: the falsifiability of pi proves gravity.

Look at the sphere, it revolves like the Earth, only the Earth makes revolutions in exactly three dimensions (it does not unravel or make revolutions in more than three dimensions).... so the "infinity" of pi actually has something to do with the density of the Earth (I know the Earth is not infinitely dense, but pi is a diminishing infinity)

Can anyone else see the connection?

Honestly, what you wrote makes absolutely no sense to me.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[morningstar2651]

Wow! Jesus just taught me something: the falsifiability of pi proves gravity.

Look at the sphere, it revolves like the Earth, only the Earth makes revolutions in exactly three dimensions (it does not unravel or make revolutions in more than three dimensions).... so the "infinity" of pi actually has something to do with the density of the Earth (I know the Earth is not infinitely dense, but pi is a diminishing infinity)

Can anyone else see the connection?

I wonder how you would describe it. Like the impossibility of a sphere being divided by its diameter in anything less than three dimensions is the same thing that justifies an infinitely weak force being applied to its mass to keep it whole.

All I was seeing was that if you took the three numbers there (before 4) as literal dimensions, you would never see the Earth do what it does in that picture (yet the path it takes clearly has the simplicity of a diametric line when you look at the horizon).

Put it this way, if I challenged you to make an object that literally was pi, you could not do it (but the Earth is like an object that seems to be described by pi and yet has gravity).

Back to topic, I have to say that pi now seems to me to be an explanation that doesn't fit the context in which it was required (I wonder what that means for maths in God's sight)...

EDIT: re: maths. ... like maybe you can't separate signs from the numbers that use them. or maybe spherical objects are of a higher order to one dimensional objects (and so can't be divided into a lower order) or maybe phenomena like the qualities of an object can be equated with associations to that phenomena... or all three

Have you ever read the novel Flatland?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Wow! Jesus just taught me something: the falsifiability of pi proves gravity.

Pi is a number. It can't be falsified because it is not a statement with a truth value and a probability associated with it.

Look at the sphere, it revolves like the Earth, only the Earth makes revolutions in exactly three dimensions (it does not unravel or make revolutions in more than three dimensions).... so the "infinity" of pi actually has something to do with the density of the Earth (I know the Earth is not infinitely dense, but pi is a diminishing infinity)

Can anyone else see the connection?

Vaguely. Is the connection that pi begins with a '3', and that a sphere is three-dimensional? The connection is the threes?
Unfortunately for you, the number of dimensions the Earth revolves in is any number up to and including 26, depending on your coordinate system and physical model (string theory posits 26-dimensional spacetime, for instance).
Now if only pi began witha 26...

Put it this way, if I challenged you to make an object that literally was pi, you could not do it (but the Earth is like an object that seems to be described by pi and yet has gravity).

The Earth is related to pi in that it is roughly a sphere (more accurately, it is roughly an oblate spheroid). That the Earth has mass, and therefore a gravitational field, is entirely coincidental.

EDIT: re: maths. ... like maybe you can't separate signs from the numbers that use them. or maybe spherical objects are of a higher order to one dimensional objects (and so can't be divided into a lower order) or maybe phenomena like the qualities of an object can be equated with associations to that phenomena... or all three

Gottservant, you are making less and less sense. Just remember this little axiom: pi is a number. Irrational and trancendental, but a number nonetheless. Attributing any marvelous properties to it is as daft as saying the number 42 smells of yellow (no offence to any synaesthesiac among us).

 

[anonymous1515]

I think he's joking. He got you good Wiccan....

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I think he's joking. He got you good Wiccan....

Haha, I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. He's done these innane threads since forever, so either he's the Grand Poe Master of the Universe, or insanity incarnate.

 

[Morcova]

Thankfully morningstar had the confidence to point out that he would die before pi was ever fully calculated; that is exactly the point I am trying to make. It is an abomination.

The confidence? He pointed out what the rest of us knew... mainly the definition of infinite..

But in any case, I will tell you that God gave me three separate visions of pi. The first revealed that in reality, pi only exists as an exercise - the way muscle only exists relative to exercise. The second revealed that pi is incomplete - I saw a spiral falling away into an abyss. The third revealed that the only truth that exists in relation to pi is that you yourself truly search for the end of it.

That's nice, your insane.

 

[Morcova]

Look at the sphere, it revolves like the Earth, only the Earth makes revolutions in exactly three dimensions (it does not unravel or make revolutions in more than three dimensions).... so the "infinity" of pi actually has something to do with the density of the Earth (I know the Earth is not infinitely dense, but pi is a diminishing infinity)

Can anyone else see the connection?

I see the connection between you not knowing the difference between a sphere and a circle.

 

[anonymous1515]

Haha, I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. He's done these innane threads since forever, so either he's the Grand Poe Master of the Universe, or insanity incarnate.

Yeah. I would wager that he is the latter.

That's nice, your insane.

Hahahaha.....

 

[anonymous1515]

Gottservant...search your name up on "Fundies Say the Darndest Things." The results may shock you.

 

[The Nihilist]

Ok, this thread has made be pretty sure that he's just flat out crazy.

 

[Washington]

Gottservant...search your name up on "Fundies Say the Darndest Things." The results may shock you.

Taking a peek at FSDT I see this thread isn't Gottservant's first explanation of pi.

"Let me put it another way. Numbers are symbolic; now, pi is so long that the area it takes up is greater than any circle you could hope to symbolize the circumference to diameter ratio of. How can a symbol be considered symbolic if it is greater than that which it represents?​

Do you see the problem now?"​

[2007-Jul-29]​

But this unrelated remark has got to be his best:

"If evolution is true, why don't scapegoats evolve?"
​

And I have to agree. Every time I've been to the zoo the scapegoats always look the same.