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What do you think about pi - should it exist?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Gottservant, Jul 22, 2007.

  1. Yes.

  2. No.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

    +208
    Messianic
    Pi, 3.141592653, the random and infinite series of decimals no model has revealed, many have studied it for decades. If what is thought about it is true, that it is infinite, you could hold a sphere in your hand but never truly comprehend what you were holding. What are your intuitions, should a number such as that exist?
     
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  2. AuraTwilight

    AuraTwilight Member

    306
    +20
    Deist
    In Relationship
    There's infinite numbers inbetween every whole number. Pi's only special due to it's relation to the circle and it's amazing mathematical utility. I mean, if it doesn't exist, then what is it?
     
  3. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,586
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Numbers don't exist. Only entities and their relationships exist. Entities can be measured, and measurements compared, and it is through representing such a comparison with a decimal system that we get the value of Pi that is 3.14159...

    Pi is the the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. That concept is what it is to comprehend Pi, not an infinite series of decimal digits.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  4. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    No, it should not exist! Let us demand the abolition of all circles, Gottservant!
     
  5. us38

    us38 im in ur mind, disturben ur sanities

    661
    +35
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    pi=4(1-1/3+1/5-1/7+...)
    pi=[6(1+1/4+1/9+1/16+...)]^(1/2)
    pi=[90(1+1/16+1/81+1/256+...)]^(1/4)
     
  6. Atheuz

    Atheuz It's comforting to know that this isn't a test

    841
    +124
    Atheist
    Circles Are Evil - Thank You Gottservant, You Have Opened My Eyes.
     
  7. Sojourner<><

    Sojourner<>< Incoherent Freedom Fighter

    +13
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    I don't know but it is interesting to think how a value like pi can never be expressed with complete precision. Sort of makes you wonder if any real value can be truly expressed.
     
  8. IzzyPop

    IzzyPop I wear my sunglasses at night...

    +393
    Atheist
    Single
    Only if it does not have merangue. Slimy, nasty egg whites can really ruin a pi...
     
  9. tel0004

    tel0004 Lost in Translation

    +81
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Pi isnt that interesting. I prefer the number 'e' a lot more.
     
  10. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,586
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Yes, e is a lot more fun, but can you have it with icecream?


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  11. artybloke

    artybloke Well-Known Member

    +427
    Christian Seeker
    UK-Labour
    Me, I prefer apple pi
     
  12. funyun

    funyun aude sapere...sed praeterea, aude esse

    +140
    Atheist
    I'm not sure what you mean when you say "exist". Oldest problem in philosophical discourse.
     
  13. Mysticus

    Mysticus Member

    205
    +4
    Oneness
    Married
    Mathematics is a language. Pi is a mathematical expression of the nature of a circle. A mathematical expression that I find interesting is PHI, which exhibits patterns throughout nature... everything from the spiraling structures of galaxies, the motion of clouds, smoke, and water, the patterns by which our hearts beat and even the structure of DNA. Also, static patterns that are structured in proportion to PHI exhibit an illusion of motion...
    [​IMG]
     
  14. mrpiddly

    mrpiddly Senior Member

    +23
    Atheist
    3.
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  15. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

    +208
    Messianic
    Let me put it another way. Numbers are symbolic; now, pi is so long that the area it takes up is greater than any circle you could hope to symbolize the circumference to diameter ratio of. How can a symbol be considered symbolic if it is greater than that which it represents?

    Do you see the problem now?
     
  16. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

    +2,586
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    No.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  17. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

    +440
    Atheist
    Pi is not greater than that which it symbolizes; it is exactly equal to it. The ratio of the radius of a circle to its circumference is what pi represents, which is 3.14etc. Do you imagine that pi is greater than that ratio? Or are you complaining that our calculations are never infinitely precise?
     
  18. Gracchus

    Gracchus Senior Veteran

    +750
    Pantheist
    Single
    US-Others
    Actually if you assigned one digit of the numerical representation of Pi to each point within a circle, you would find them to be equal. (Edited to correct: I was wrong.) Or we can represent the value of Pi exactly by simply assigning a symbol to it, which, indeed we have done.

    That does not make Pi infinite as it is always between 3.1 and 3.2. You seem, Gottservant, to be confusing the number with its representation.

    Interestingly enough, the ratio of circumference to diameter of a circle on the surface of a sphere ( call it Rho) as measured along a great circle on the surface of the sphere,, can range Pi < Rho < Infinity as the diameter ranges from zero to half the circumference of the sphere.

    :wave:
     
  19. Sojourner<><

    Sojourner<>< Incoherent Freedom Fighter

    +13
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Sure but it's not that the number is infinitely large, but that it's irrational. In other words, it doesn't fit our number system with complete precision because our system is a rational system designed for counting. Think about this: Say you have a regular 12 inch ruler. How many different measurements can be found between the 0 mark and the 12 mark? Infinitely many. Now what is the probability that any real measurement will fall on exactly one of those measurements? The answer is zero!

    Well how in the @#&! can that be? Well say you have some thing that you want to measure. When you line it up against the ruler it might seem to correspond precisely with some measurement. Now take a very very close look at the measurement by using some sort of microscope. Do you think that it will turn out to be precise when magnified to the nth power? What if you continue the magnification infinitely?
     
  20. Sojourner<><

    Sojourner<>< Incoherent Freedom Fighter

    +13
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Neo's in trouble. I'm going in.
     
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