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What do we do to prevent another Las Vegas?

Allandavid

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Not feasible. Once the contents of Pandora's Box are released, they never go back in... and 200 years ago, Pandora's Box turned out to be a gun safe.

Happened over here...it was contentious, not a little painful and it was quite a surprise that a conservative leader took the decisive action.

But it seems to be working...
 
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TLK Valentine

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Happened over here...it was contentious, not a little painful and it was quite a surprise that a conservative leader took the decisive action.

But it seems to be working...

I'm not sure what worked in Australia will work in the US -- I don't know what the Australian gun culture is/was, but here in the states, it's somewhere between mania and fetishism. Even without the NRA pumping millions of dollars into pro-gun politicians, there's more than a little truth to the "you can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" mentality.
 
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Allandavid

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I'm not sure what worked in Australia will work in the US -- I don't know what the Australian gun culture is/was, but here in the states, it's somewhere between mania and fetishism. Even without the NRA pumping millions of dollars into pro-gun politicians, there's more than a little truth to the "you can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" mentality.

Sure...understood. And I don’t think that the dramatic, almost overnight change that happened here would work over there. But you guys can’t even permit a government agency to gather data on the issue, or to require universal background checks on people buying guns...they might be reasonable places to start...?

The gun culture here was certainly less rabid, but guns were nevertheless regarded as a ‘normal’ feature of our society. My dad served in our army for 20+ years and stored a service weapon or two in closets in our house - no ammunition though. My brother and I were treated to some target practice in the bush on occasion and we were allowed to mess around with air rifles, as long as we didn’t shoot any native birds. I don’t think we were out of the ordinary in that regard. But yes, we didn’t regard guns as part of our family like many over there do...
 
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Armoured

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Happened over here...it was contentious, not a little painful and it was quite a surprise that a conservative leader took the decisive action.

But it seems to be working...
And what's more, resistant as we were initially, Australian gun owners, (like myself) are largely supportive.
 
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dgiharris

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It's funny how things like this seem so far away until it hits you personally.

A friend of mine was flying in to town for a wedding (his wife's friend was getting married). I just found out (a few hours ago) that, he is not flying in, his sister was killed in Vegas.

Another friend of mine was signing a $50k business deal from an investor he secured, the investor's brother got shot and is in critical condition so that deal is postponed until further notice.

that's all. No argument to be made. Just a blip on the data radar...

these things actually do impact and effect us... I bet that if you dug deep enough, many of us are 2 or 3 degrees of separation from this Vegas incident...
 
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Armoured

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It's funny how things like this seem so far away until it hits you personally.

A friend of mine was flying in to town for a wedding (his wife's friend was getting married). I just found out (a few hours ago) that, he is not flying in, his sister was killed in Vegas.

Another friend of mine was signing a $50k business deal from an investor he secured, the investor's brother got shot and is in critical condition so that deal is postponed until further notice.

that's all. No argument to be made. Just a blip on the data radar...

these things actually do impact and effect us... I bet that if you dug deep enough, many of us are 2 or 3 degrees of separation from this Vegas incident...
Convey our best to your friends. I know we're just strangers on the internet, but FWIW... :(
 
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Armoured

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398572_307872789330648_836969687_n.jpg
 
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drjean

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....a violent society, where, according to data gathered by NBC News:

More Americans have died from gunshots in the last 50 years than in all of the wars in American history.

Since 1968, more than 1.5 million Americans have died in gun-related incidents, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. By comparison, approximately 1.2 million service members have been killed in every war in U.S. history, according to estimates from the Department of Veterans Affairs and iCasualties.org, a website that maintains an ongoing database of casualties from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Since 1968, guns have killed more Americans than all U.S. wars combined

This has been proven already to be #fakenews misconstrued "facts" to get society to believe lies. You can't just google something and take the first 1000 entries, you really have ask a question in the opposite manner to dig into the truth these days, sad isn't it?
 
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dogs4thewin

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It's funny how things like this seem so far away until it hits you personally.

A friend of mine was flying in to town for a wedding (his wife's friend was getting married). I just found out (a few hours ago) that, he is not flying in, his sister was killed in Vegas.

Another friend of mine was signing a $50k business deal from an investor he secured, the investor's brother got shot and is in critical condition so that deal is postponed until further notice.

that's all. No argument to be made. Just a blip on the data radar...

these things actually do impact and effect us... I bet that if you dug deep enough, many of us are 2 or 3 degrees of separation from this Vegas incident...
I was (thankfully) not affect, BUT for example drunk driving if I was affected by it my pain ( if someone were killed) does not suddenly mean that DUI should be treated as murder because under the law it is not; likewise if I were to be affected by a shooting that does not change the fact that the people who mean no harm are not dangerous with a gun ( and I know quite a few people who own firearms and the people that DO mean harm either will find a way to get a firearm or find some other way to kill people. It would not change the facts even through my pain.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Armoured

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Driving is not a right. Gun ownership ( with certain exceptions) is.
Just saying "but it's a right!" is not an argument, and Americans really need to get past it.
 
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wing2000

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This has been proven already to be #fakenews misconstrued "facts" to get society to believe lies. You can't just google something and take the first 1000 entries, you really have ask a question in the opposite manner to dig into the truth these days, sad isn't it?

Would you agree that far too many Americans have died due to gun violence?
 
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dgiharris

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I was (thankfully) not affect, BUT for example drunk driving if I was affected by it my pain ( if someone were killed) does not suddenly mean that DUI should be treated as murder because under the law it is not; likewise if I were to be affected by a shooting that does not change the fact that the people who mean no harm are not dangerous with a gun ( and I know quite a few people who own firearms and the people that DO mean harm either will find a way to get a firearm or find some other way to kill people. It would not change the facts even through my pain.

Pain is a great evolutionary tool. Without pain, we as a species would not exist. We would have died out long ago...

Pain is nature's way of telling you that there is a mistake that is harming you. Failure to correct that mistake results in more harm and more pain until you reach a point of no return and die...

If I were to think about society and use the above... What I see in my mind's eye is that as a society we are on borrowed time...

Take a look at this graph...

1-meetingalien.jpg


this crude graph represents our technological development. We are now in a period of exponential technological growth. Technology is a form of power. As technology grows, the power of the individual increases. So, the ability of the individual increases as does his ability to harm society.

As technology progresses, the individual is able to harm society to a greater degree.

My point?

Gun control is only part of the solution. What we need to do as a society is come up with "some" way to ensure that all individuals are sane and not prone to harming society.
 
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Zoii

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Pain is a great evolutionary tool. Without pain, we as a species would not exist. We would have died out long ago...

Pain is nature's way of telling you that there is a mistake that is harming you. Failure to correct that mistake results in more harm and more pain until you reach a point of no return and die...

If I were to think about society and use the above... What I see in my mind's eye is that as a society we are on borrowed time...

Take a look at this graph...

1-meetingalien.jpg


this crude graph represents our technological development. We are now in a period of exponential technological growth. Technology is a form of power. As technology grows, the power of the individual increases. So, the ability of the individual increases as does his ability to harm society.

As technology progresses, the individual is able to harm society to a greater degree.

My point?

Gun control is only part of the solution. What we need to do as a society is come up with "some" way to ensure that all individuals are sane and not prone to harming society.
Or you could just ban guns
 
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expos4ever

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Just saying "but it's a right!" is not an argument, and Americans really need to get past it.
No kidding. Several of the pro gun arguments we read here are just plain silly, including the "it's a right" argument. When people make inane arguments, whether on this issue or anything else, we who recognize this are in a bind. The appropriate response is ridicule, but either we are censored from responding in this way and/or we feel bad about making fun of someone who is putting forward a zany position.

When a response of well-deserved ridicule is taken away, we are forced to actually debate against the wackiness. And that creates the illusion that the other position is at least defensible. I believe I can cite studies that show that the most effective response to absurdness is ridicule, not reason. Debating whether the world is flat only legitimizes a position that should instead be dealt with by effective use of guffaws, belly laughter, and other forms of derision.
 
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drjean

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Would you agree that far too many Americans have died due to gun violence?

Far too many have died from unnatural causes. Is there as much outrage about the killing of unborn children? 50 million! Have they no right to live? What about those who seek to end their own lives?

There are three factors many who call for banning "guns" fail to admit: suicide and gang violence are the two main causes of death by firearm. Both of them require societal changes in behavior, not material items. Most suicides and gang deaths are NOT BY firearms purchased by the user.

Chicago has a NO FIREARMS ban in place, and yet look at the THOUSANDS of young people who are murdered by FIREARMS each year. How do they address this?

About 3% of the US population own 50% of the firearms. Mostly conservatives, many hunters and collectors.... "conservative" meaning supportive of the Constitution, not a particular political party.

If one were to look at the complete, true statistics, for reducing violence one COULD reason that ONLY CONSERVATIVES should be allowed to buy a firearm. :D (But of course, as mentioned above, most deaths by firearm are not by the purchaser.)
 
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wing2000

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Far too many have died from unnatural causes. Is there as much outrage about the killing of unborn children? 50 million! Have they no right to live? What about those who seek to end their own lives?



Answering my question with more questions is not an answer.


There are three factors many who call for banning "guns" fail to admit: suicide and gang violence are the two main causes of death by firearm. Both of them require societal changes in behavior, not material items. Most suicides and gang deaths are NOT BY firearms purchased by the user.

Chicago has a NO FIREARMS ban in place, and yet look at the THOUSANDS of young people who are murdered by FIREARMS each year. How do they address this?

About 3% of the US population own 50% of the firearms. Mostly conservatives, many hunters and collectors.... "conservative" meaning supportive of the Constitution, not a particular political party.

If one were to look at the complete, true statistics, for reducing violence one COULD reason that ONLY CONSERVATIVES should be allowed to buy a firearm. :D (But of course, as mentioned above, most deaths by firearm are not by the purchaser.)

I never said anything about banning guns.
 
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