What do we do to prevent another Las Vegas?

[Uncle Siggy]

Ahh yes lets make more gun laws, the shooter broke most of what is currently in the book and any that some might dream up in the future "but we just gotta have more useless laws"...

 

[Vylo]

And you haven't had the avalanche of "It's not the guns, it's the mental illness!" diversions either...

Well, that is a somewhat valid argument. We have a large mental health problem.

I'm actually in favor of gun rights. I would just like honest discussion from both sides, and for people on my side of the argument to stop saying "we can't talk about this right now", when now is exactly the time to talk about it. Even if all we agree to do is simply mourn our dead and put up with the carnage, it is at least worth talking about an issue taking so many lives in such a brutal fashion.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Mental illness a common trend among the people who commit massive killing here in the USA.

Not really, only if they happen to be white or Christian does “mental” illness come into play.

 

[LoAmmi]

Ahh yes lets make more gun laws, the shooter broke most of what is currently in the book and any that some might dream up in the future "but we just gotta have more useless laws"...

Just so long as we also agree that things like the travel ban are equally useless, I'm on board.

 

[PeachyKeane]

Plenty of guns still in Australia. In the hands of criminals. Only law abiding citizens handed them in during the amnesty. (Of course.)

Anyway, the answer to the original poster's question is probably to raise children better. It's not the easiest solution and cannot be applied retrospectively to damaged adults but it's the only long term solution that would work.

And how do we do that?

 

[Armoured]

Plenty of guns still in Australia. In the hands of criminals. Only law abiding citizens handed them in during the amnesty. (Of course.)

Anyway, the answer to the original poster's question is probably to raise children better. It's not the easiest solution and cannot be applied retrospectively to damaged adults but it's the only long term solution that would work.

Plenty of law abiding gun owners in Australia, too. What's your point?

 

[Armoured]

And how do we do that?

Come on, the nice thing about pithy platitudes is no one actually expects anyone to do anything. I mean, could you imagine? Actual change is HARD!

 

[Obliquinaut]

Well, that is a somewhat valid argument. We have a large mental health problem.

And I would take the NRA's focus on the mental healthcare system if they pushed for a surcharge on all gun and ammunition purchases that would be set aside for expanding mental healthcare in the US. (Because, presumably, if it is quite often the mentally disturbed who do things like this the gun lobby should want to ensure there are fewer people without access to mental healthcare...it would be good for guns in general). But we all know they wouldn't do that. Because NO ONE ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS in the USA. The mentally ill are simply good props and scapegoats when horrible things happen. That way we don't have to think about our larger national mental illness: gun-philia.

I'm actually in favor of gun rights. I would just like honest discussion from both sides, and for people on my side of the argument to stop saying "we can't talk about this right now", when now is exactly the time to talk about it. Even if all we agree to do is simply mourn our dead and put up with the carnage, it is at least worth talking about an issue taking so many lives in such a brutal fashion.

Why do we mouth the "mourning" and blather on about prayers and thoughts for the families of the victims? We as a nation couldn't care less about these poor people! If we did we'd DO SOMETHING. Once we as a nation saw 20 little children gunned down and couldn't do anything about guns we made our pact with the Devil. We plighted our troth to our true love: hot lead.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And how do we do that?

I thought someone already posted this:
"Raise children in the way they should go, and when they are older they will not depart from it." BIBLE QUOTE

When children are raised correctly, they won't lie, cheat, steal, kill, or commit sexual sins. (there are exceptions, and it is so rare anyway most people never see anyone who is honest)

 

[Tanj]

There's no way to stop the evil - remember as it is written the evil is growing, increasing, every day until Jesus returns.

I think you are wrong, I just saw tonight the earnest discussion around improved hotel security as a solution.

 

[Armoured]

I think you are wrong, I just saw tonight the earnest discussion around improved hotel security as a solution.

If there's "no way to stop evil" it seems odd this particular evil only seems to be a problem in one developed country.

 

[David Brider]

Well, the ideal situation for the US (AFAIC) would be to ban private gun ownership.

Not that that would be perfect, but it would go a long way to helping solve the current problem.

However, from discussing guns with folks from the US, I realise that this is unlikely to happen, and I'll just settle for feeling safe living in a country where gun ownership and gun culture isn't widespread.

 

[Armoured]

Ahh yes lets make more gun laws, the shooter broke most of what is currently in the book and any that some might dream up in the future "but we just gotta have more useless laws"...

So what's your proposed solution?

 

[RDKirk]

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.
Opinion | I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

I think this opinion piece is worth considering. There is no silver bullet.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think you are wrong, I just saw tonight the earnest discussion around improved hotel security as a solution.

Did you notice, by any hope or providence, the evil ones in power in charge of that? (their evil power and intrusion into people's lives increasing as a result of what happened, again). No matter what they do/did, it is increasing evil since the authorities there are notoriously evil. (just by being there)

 

[RDKirk]

Well, the ideal situation for the US (AFAIC) would be to ban private gun ownership.

Not that that would be perfect, but it would go a long way to helping solve the current problem.

However, from discussing guns with folks from the US, I realise that this is unlikely to happen, and I'll just settle for feeling safe living in a country where gun ownership and gun culture isn't widespread.

I oppose that solution, unless you can guarantee me safety from a young punk with a knife or a club or even his fists.

If you can't guarantee my safety, you have no moral voice in my efforts to provide for my own safety.

 

[Armoured]

Well, the ideal situation for the US (AFAIC) would be to ban private gun ownership.

Not that that would be perfect, but it would go a long way to helping solve the current problem.

However, from discussing guns with folks from the US, I realise that this is unlikely to happen, and I'll just settle for feeling safe living in a country where gun ownership and gun culture isn't widespread.

I don't believe private gun ownership needs be banned. But a few sensible safety regulations and oversights could slash their mortality figures.

 

[Armoured]

I oppose that solution, unless you can guarantee me safety from a young punk with a knife or a club or even his fists.

If you can't guarantee my safety, you have no moral voice in my efforts to provide for my own safety.

Please RD, not you too!

 

[David Brider]

I oppose that solution, unless you can guarantee me safety from a young punk with a knife or a club or even his fists.

If you can't guarantee my safety, you have no moral voice in my efforts to provide for my own safety.

Nobody can guarantee you safety at all. The best you can do is take sensible precautions. But allowing a situation where a "young punk" can legally and affordably get hold of a gun, or multiple guns, is the opposite of guaranteeing you safety.

 

[RDKirk]

Nobody can guarantee you safety at all. The best you can do is take sensible precautions. But allowing a situation where a "young punk" can legally and affordably get hold of a gun, or multiple guns, is the opposite of guaranteeing you safety.

If you can't guarantee my safety, then you have no moral authority to determine what measures are proper for my personal safety. In fact, there is no acceptable moral argument I need accept that I should be the one who pulls the short straw in a Shirley Jackson lottery.

An argument that statistics dictated morality would be quickly lost.

The US courts have already ruled that the government itself has no responsibility for my personal safety.

If you can create a situation in which that young punk doesn't get a gun that yet allows me to take whatever measures I deem necessary to protect me from that young punk's equally effective fists and knives, I'd be open to hear it.