What de-conversion feels like

[NPH]

Don't use CF for your serious research, read what real theologans have written.

Trust me, I don't just use CF If anyone were to use CF as the basis for judging Christianity then there would be very few people interested in the religion

Especially don't rely on what I have to say, I'm just a new Christian who hasn't yet embraced the "no fruitless quarelling" ethics of the New Testament.

LOL, that's one of the toughest. Many times i've had to force myself to walk away from a discussion here. Not because I was wrong but because the 'other side' becomes more interested in ad hominem and straw men and such.

No, most of what i'm feeling is from my own independent study. The people here at CF just present the raw real life application of the theologies contained in that study.

 

[TheListener]

No, most of what i'm feeling is from my own independent study. The people here at CF just present the raw real life application of the theologies contained in that study.

All I can say to you brother: For the love of God, be *fair* in your research. Don't do it to please anyone, do it to be fair.

If you are fair to both sides you should be right, I went through this myself not too long ago.

 

[NPH]

That's how things started with me. But once it started, I couldn't shake those ideas. Don't worry though; either you'll weather the storm out or you'll find a different path, and either one is ok. I will say that letting go of religion broadened my horizons in so many ways, I feel like I see reality clearer and I wouldn't go back if I had the opportunity.
also...cool avatar.

Thanks savvy! That's exactly how i'm feeling right now. Once I began seriously questioning and looking at things with my head rather than just my heart (and what I had been conditioned to believe) I found that I just can't stop looking further and further. And the more I look the more I find there is to toss out.

Right now i'm feeling very comfortable with still believing in the existence of God, Jesus and agreeing to the two Great Commandments (Love God and Love your neighbor) while rejecting most of the rest of what is taught. I can't even come close to believing that the Bible is historically or even factually accurate anymore ... and I have a very hard time believing that the God of the OT is the same one in the NT. I'd say i'm hanging on to the Nicene Creed by a thread right now lol.

edit: btw, thanks for the comment on the avatar. Just the other day a poster in the CO section hammered me over it so it's nice to know someone realized it was fun and silly

 

[NPH]

All I can say to you brother: For the love of God, be *fair* in your research. Don't do it to please anyone, do it to be fair.

If you are fair to both sides you should be right, I went through this myself not too long ago.

Thanks Listener Actually, the hardest part of being *fair* is in avoiding giving religion too much leeway because i'm conditioned to accept that religion, even when it makes no sense.

And there's probably no one I know that would be pleased to see me go 'apostate' lol.

 

[savvy]

All I can say to you brother: For the love of God, be *fair* in your research. Don't do it to please anyone, do it to be fair.

If you are fair to both sides you should be right, I went through this myself not too long ago.

I agree. Go over all sides with an open mind. Don't believe things just because it feels good or its easier, and don't let anyone tell you you're stupid for the decision you make (even if its the wrong one)

 

[MQTA]

What evidence is there yet to be seen? What could come along on my journey that will shake my faith?

You'll have to see for yourself in the next few years/decade. The 30s and early 40s are nearly impossible to see from 30. 33 1/3 is when my whole life changed, totally, for the better. But it started just before I hit 30, one thing lead to another.

 

[Osiris]

The fact that an ape-like creature lived does not mean we descended from it does it?

H
C------h----
B----n------
A--e--------

If on layer A of rocks, we find species 'c'... but they are not found anywhere else, then... on B layer of rocks a similar species to 'n' is found, but it is not species 'c' and species 'n' is not found in any of the other layers... and on C layer of rocks, species 'h' is found, and this species is similar to species 'n', and species 'h' is not found in any of the other layers... and we see species 'h' and it is very similar to our species skeletal structure.

Now, having this knowledge plus knowledge of genetics and the variation of alleles through population, you can safely conclude for specie mutability.

Also, it is silly to think that your children will look exactly like you or exactly like your mother. Children turn out depending on the combination of his/her parent's genes. Children don't look exactly like their parents, they resemble them. Think of it this way then, we are the children of those ape-like ancestors...

P.S.
I think we should take this over to the C&E forums, plus, you will definetly get better information than what I am providing.

 

[MQTA]

That is your opinion, I could say the same about atheism.

No, you can't, see, that's the thing. Well, yeah, I guess you could SAY it, but it wouldn't ring true.

 

[TheListener]

And there's probably no one I know that would be pleased to see me go 'apostate' lol.

I felt like that too, mine only went for a few weeks but every single day it seemed something new was thrown at me and every time I felt I had to go off & find out what it was about.

It all makes sense if you study it properly. The Bible stands up for itself.

 

[TheListener]

...

What are the odds of humans growing gills over the next million years?

 

[Osiris]

What are the odds of humans growing gills over the next million years?

Not probable... but why do you ask that? Do you think that is what Evolution says?

 

[radorth]

(Robert G. Ingersoll)
When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free--free to think, to express my thoughts--free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself . . . I was free! I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.


​

He must never have been born again or he is a lousy writer. My rebirth experience, and that of many others, brought us ten times the joy, freedom of expression, freedom from fear and enhanced mental powers, including the gifts of the Spirit.

Not to mention we don't go around like Ingersoll claiming we will build more private hospitals one day. We actually built far more, while his noisy prediction was never fulfilled at all. He would have been better to keep his mouth shut and go start soliciting contributions as the Christians were doing.

Rad

 

[NPH]

What are the odds of humans growing gills over the next million years?

If generation after generation spent, say, 90% or more of it's time in the water for a good reason then I'd imagine the odds of it happening would be pretty good.

What are the odds of humans developing lungs that cannot breathe the thick air at sea level but can breathe just fine in the incredibly thin air found in mountainous areas?

But I honestly have no clue, do you know the answer? (i'd truly like to know if someone has calculated those odds)

p.s. - yes, I do realize that neither of those questions deals with evolution but rather more with adaptation ... before anyone notices

 

[TheListener]

Not probable... but why do you ask that? Do you think that is what Evolution says?

Nope, just curious... Why wouldn't humans grow gills? Would it have anything to do with the fact that our DNA does not have the necessary information and thus it is not possible?

 

[NPH]

What are the odds of humans growing gills over the next million years?

p.s. It only takes 1000 years if you got a Coca-Cola factory in the area





I do hope someone gets the joke lol.

 

[Lycaenidae]

What are the odds of humans growing gills over the next million years?

It would depend on how our environment changed, of course.

 

[MQTA]

If there was no historical credibility behind the Bible I would be in absolute agreement with you but I keep things in context.

That's exactly what I found. No Historical Credibility. Have you read through Paul Tobin's Central Thesis? Of course not. However, he examines the historicity.

He's still updating the site, I see 3 new articles. Gotta go read. ciao

You can look at different parts of a car and say "there is no way this will carry a passenger & drive". You can easily say that for any of the nuts & bolts that make up any machine. But when working together it makes perfect sense.

In the context of Jesus everything makes sense.

IMHO.

 

[Nightson]

For those who have never experienced de-conversion, it can be difficult to describe what it 'feels' like. I think many Christians assume the de-convert's feeling are like those of a lost person. This is not what I experienced. I think "liberation" is closer to describing the feeling (at least myself) had upon leaving the church.


(Robert G. Ingersoll)
When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free--free to think, to express my thoughts--free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself . . . I was free! I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

​

It's a glorious feeling indeed.

 

[TheListener]

Just a quick browse thru that site & I can see he is not very biased at all is he?

He should study the Bible better if he really wants to sound like he knows what he is talking about.

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/apologetics.html

How many subjective theories have been presented as though they were facts?

Interesting site by the way but so far similar arguments to what are out there, mainly aimed at exploiting peoples lack of knowledge.

Now, the fair thing to do is go & study what the other side claims & look at independant unbiased accounts too, right?

 

[pantsman52]

Nope, just curious... Why wouldn't humans grow gills? Would it have anything to do with the fact that our DNA does not have the necessary information and thus it is not possible?

Depends entirely on the environment and time.