What de-conversion feels like

[TheListener]

Darwin's theory is not about explaining how life began.
Darwin's theory model only explains that life, irrelevant of how it was created, is mutable -- has no fixed shaped.

But it is just that - a theory.

That's my point.

 

[Lycaenidae]

In other words, there is no proof that all life began in the seas & spread across the globe into what we have today. Darwin's theory is something that has no empirical evidence.

Am I correct?

No, you would be wrong. Obviously you haven't read anything I've written. I can understand how you might not know any of this. Scientists have cleverly concealed the information in books.

 

[CalculusCrusader]

That's why 90% of insect fossils from the Carboniferous era are Blattoid. It's not because cockroaches ruled the earth, it's because they happened to be in a convenient place for fossilization to occur.

Yeah, under the fridge.

 

[Osiris]

You are saying that all Christianity is based on is a few city names and a book.

You yourself said that the only reason you believe is because of the historical credibility...

I am saying people went to their death proclaiming the ressurection, we are here today as proof of that.

So, if people assume something to be true, is it okay to say that something is true with certainty?

 

[TheListener]

So, if people assume something to be true, is it okay to say that something is true with certainty?

Yes! Look at what these eyewitnesses claimed to be true & gave their lives defending it.

 

[TheListener]

No, you would be wrong. Obviously you haven't read anything I've written. I can understand how you might not know any of this. Scientists have cleverly concealed the information in books.

So, it is not a theory then? We are not taking Darwin on blind faith about man evolving from apes?

 

[Osiris]

But it is just that - a theory.

That's my point.

A fact and a theory.
Evolution is a fact.
The Theory of Evolution is a model that tries to explain the Fact of Evolution.

-

Just think of it this way...
Gravity, is it real?
Yet, what we know about gravity is only the Theory of Gravity. For all we know, we could be wrong about what we know about gravity, and what's keeping us here on earth are invisible nails under our feet.

So, when people say,... "oh, it's just a theory", they usually don't understand what a scientific theory really is.... which is a model that tries to explain a fact.

 

[TheListener]

Evolution is a fact.

So there is undeniable evidence that man descended from apes?

 

[Osiris]

Yes! Look at what these eyewitnesses claimed to be true & gave their lives defending it.

No. You are making the assumption that anyone who gives their life for a belief is infallible and that the belief that they hold has to be true.

 

[TheListener]

No. You are making the assumption that anyone who gives their life for a belief is infallible and that the belief that they hold has to be true.

How many people would die for a lie? What about for truth?

 

[NPH]

Despite the fact that this thread appears to be turning into an evolution discussion, I found the first part of it regarding de-conversion very interesting.

I think I am in the process of "deconverting" or "desomethinging" myself and much of what i've read reflects some of how i've been feeling. There's a definite part that feels so much more free from superstition and blind obediance to things that make no sense at all ... and there's also some of me that feels a sense of loss and a desire to grip on tight to what belief is left.

As I read here on CF, my Christian brethren (no offense meant Listener, you are an interesting poster ) are strangely the ones who are leading me the most away from Christianity. When I read much of what they say I am left puzzled. Most of it no longer seems coherent, logical or even sensible at all. Whenever I try to enter into arguments on theology with other Christians I find my efforts becoming bland and uninteresting because i'm trying to argue one theology I don't believe with another that I'm starting to find irrelevant also. I just don't think my heart or head is in it to argue that way much more.

 

[Osiris]

So there is undeniable evidence that man descended from apes?

Ape-like ancestor.
And yes, there is undeniable evidence...

 

[Lycaenidae]

So, it is not a theory then? We are not taking Darwin on blind faith about man evolving from apes?

No, we aren't. Feel free to call your local university and tell them they're wasting all that grant money, though.

 

[TheListener]

Ape-like ancestor.
And yes, there is undeniable evidence...

The fact that an ape-like creature lived does not mean we descended from it does it?

 

[Osiris]

How many people would die for a lie? What about for truth?

I think the questions should be...

How many people would die for what they think(or assume) is a lie? What about for what they think(or assume) is truth?

 

[peepnklown]

Ape-like ancestor.

If you have a spine, four limbs, an ear with three bones and a jaw with one, fur, your females lactate and give birth to live young, warm blood, flexible fingers, forward facing eyes, general body plan, general dentition, trichromatic vision, fingernails, opposable thumb, no tail, larger than average brain cavity, then you are an ape. If you have a chin, your foramen magnum enters towards the front of the skull, a large Broca's Region, and are suited to bipedality, then you are also a Human.

 

[TheListener]

As I read here on CF, my Christian brethren (no offense meant Listener, you are an interesting poster ) are strangely the ones who are leading me the most away from Christianity. When I read much of what they say I am left puzzled. Most of it no longer seems coherent, logical or even sensible at all. Whenever I try to enter into arguments on theology with other Christians I find my efforts becoming bland and uninteresting because i'm trying to argue one theology I don't believe with another that I'm starting to find irrelevant also. I just don't think my heart or head is in it to argue that way much more.

Don't use CF for your serious research, read what real theologans have written.

Especially don't rely on what I have to say, I'm just a new Christian who hasn't yet embraced the "no fruitless quarelling" ethics of the New Testament.

 

[TheListener]

I think the questions should be...

How many people would die for what they think(or assume) is a lie? What about for what they think(or assume) is truth?

An eyewitness to an event may see things a bit differently.

I assume I read your post, in fact I know I did since I'm replying to it. Is there a difference in my case?

 

[NPH]

So there is undeniable evidence that man descended from apes?

See, things like this are what bother me. I have never seen where evolution says that man is descended from apes. What it does say is that we might have a common ancestor and that our genetic sequence is very similar (actually we are most similar genetically to chimpanzees, not apes).

This is nothing more than a straw man, I wish people would stop trying to use it.

 

[savvy]

Despite the fact that this thread appears to be turning into an evolution discussion, I found the first part of it regarding de-conversion very interesting.

I think I am in the process of "deconverting" or "desomethinging" myself and much of what i've read reflects some of how i've been feeling. There's a definite part that feels so much more free from superstition and blind obediance to things that make no sense at all ... and there's also some of me that feels a sense of loss and a desire to grip on tight to what belief is left.

As I read here on CF, my Christian brethren (no offense meant Listener, you are an interesting poster ) are strangely the ones who are leading me the most away from Christianity. When I read much of what they say I am left puzzled. Most of it no longer seems coherent, logical or even sensible at all. Whenever I try to enter into arguments on theology with other Christians I find my efforts becoming bland and uninteresting because i'm trying to argue one theology I don't believe with another that I'm starting to find irrelevant also. I just don't think my heart or head is in it to argue that way much more.

That's how things started with me. But once it started, I couldn't shake those ideas. Don't worry though; either you'll weather the storm out or you'll find a different path, and either one is ok. I will say that letting go of religion broadened my horizons in so many ways, I feel like I see reality clearer and I wouldn't go back if I had the opportunity.
also...cool avatar.