What are the conditions for salvation?

[Guojing]

Not

Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38

 

[IamHope]

What I'm saying is that man is obligated to love. That's the very definition of justice/righteousness for man.

Wrong

 

[IamHope]

Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38

Have You Been Saved?​

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - John 3:3 NKJV

Jesus tells us there is only one requirement to be taken into His fold as one of His children. It's called Salvation.

[15] "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:15-17 NKJV

If you are born again, you have been saved. After this, it's all about living life as a Christian in good faith and walking in the same direction as Jesus. It includes learning how to let Him guide you through life with peace and joy in your heart and how to keep in good standing.

 

[IamHope]

Hmm, your response might almost be amusing if it wasn’t sad. Lots of novel ideas have managed to subvert the gospel for many. Consider this: the new covenant does not serve as a reprieve from man’s obligation to be righteous, but rather is the means to achieving that very thing. The greatest commandments are still obligatory, as is, for example, the following:

“He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

Have You Been Saved?​

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - John 3:3 NKJV

Jesus tells us there is only one requirement to be taken into His fold as one of His children. It's called Salvation.

[15] "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:15-17 NKJV

If you are born again, you have been saved. After this, it's all about living life as a Christian in good faith and walking in the same direction as Jesus. It includes learning how to let Him guide you through life with peace and joy in your heart and how to keep in good standing.

 

[Guojing]

Have You Been Saved?​

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - John 3:3 NKJV

Jesus tells us there is only one requirement to be taken into His fold as one of His children. It's called Salvation.

[15] "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:15-17 NKJV

If you are born again, you have been saved. After this, it's all about living life as a Christian in good faith and walking in the same direction as Jesus. It includes learning how to let Him guide you through life with peace and joy in your heart and how to keep in good standing.

The question is, under the gospel of the kingdom, what must members of Israel do (Acts 2:36-37) to be born again?

The answer is given in those 2 verses I have provided.

 

[ozso]

What I'm saying is that man is obligated to love. That's the very definition of justice/righteousness for man. And it's a good obligation, one that excludes sin from the world and is ultimately the source of full true uncompromised happiness for man, as well.

What kind of love and to what degree? Do you force yourself to love?

God wants the best for us-always has. And the only way to that love is Christ, as I've maintained, because Christ is the only way to God. Salvation is more than simply being saved from hell. It's man attaining to his purpose, his telos, becoming who he was created to be. I think it was Gregory of Nyssa who said that we're not even fully human yet in this life; just a seedling, so to speak.

That I agree with and have said so myself. But do you see that as the justification aspect of salvation, or the sanctification aspect that follows justification?

 

[fhansen]

The point boils down to the of the phrase "But now", one that is frequently used by Paul

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

The point is still, learn to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15)

And how have divided it there? Have you understood that real righteousness is given to man, righteousness that the law and prophets could only testify to but not deliver?! For that, only God is the source as we give up tru9ng on our own and turn to Him instead.

"...and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

 

[fhansen]

What kind of love and to what degree? Do you force yourself to love?

No! But love we must! We're obstinate, selfish, but by His grace God will draw us to His love, and garner in us an appreciation for it until it becomes the most important thing in our existence. But meanwhile, until we're "perfected in love", we can still resist and refuse and reject; we can fail to pick up our cross. God won't force it either.

 

[Guojing]

And how have divided it there? Have you understood that real righteousness is given to man, righteousness that the law and prophets could only testify to but not deliver?! For that, only God is the source as we give up tru9ng on our own and turn to Him instead.

"...and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

That means, there was a time when the Law needed to be kept by man, in order to be justified (James 2:24).

 

[IamHope]

The question is, under the gospel of the kingdom, what must members of Israel do (Acts 2:36-37) to be born again?

The answer is given in those 2 verses I have provided.

The post is about Salvation, there is only one true Gospel and Kingdom. Jesus is the truth. Christianity is about Christ. CHRISTIANS live and abide in His spirit and spread the Good News so that all who seek God can find him.

 

[fhansen]

That I agree with and have said so myself. But do you see that as the justification aspect of salvation, or the sanctification aspect that follows justification?

I see justification and sanctification as part and parcel of the same "operation". Justification is the seed of justice planted; sanctification is the growth of that seed. The RCC catechism puts it this way:
"Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man." CCC 1989 & 2019

 

[Guojing]

The post is about Salvation, there is only one true Gospel and Kingdom. Jesus is the truth. Christianity is about Christ. CHRISTIANS live and abide in His spirit and spread the Good News so that all who seek God can find him.

You are not addressing my point, nor the scripture I used to support it.

 

[fhansen]

That means, there was a time when the Law needed to be kept by man, in order to be justified (James 2:24).

Rom 3:21 means that real righteousness is now finally available to man. The law and the prophets were right, but they could not accomplish true righteousness in us. The law and the prophets can accurately tell us what righteousness "looks like", and that it's necessary, but that's all they can do aside from convicting us of sin when we inevitably fail to fulfill them. By being under the law, attempting to fulfill it on or own, no man will be justified. True righteousness comes from God alone, apart from the law:

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

Again,
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33

Becoming his people is the object of faith. The law He puts in our minds and writes on our hearts is the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. And that law does not even need to be heard. It was written in our hearts from the beginning of creation, in fact, but we failed to heed it. We overrode it, creating our own laws, our own morality, being our own "gods" instead of God's people. Augustine put it this way:
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart." God must make us into new creations, with new hearts, changed interiorly. And we have to want it, increasingly.

Man needs God, that's the whole point of the gospel. "Apart from me you can do nothing." John 15:5 But 'with God all things are possible.' Matt 19:26 Jesus gives us a God truly worthy of the name.

 

[fhansen]

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - John 3:3 NKJV

Jesus tells us there is only one requirement to be taken into His fold as one of His children. It's called Salvation.

We can leave His fold. And some will. We cannot even predict our own perseverance, and that's why were exhorted and warned to persevere, to strive, to be vigilant, to be holy, to put to death the deeds of the flesh, to love, to obey, etc, with eternal life (salvation) at stake.

 

[IamHope]

It would be a good idea to have everything you know about Salvation boiled down to God's most important thought. That being clear, concise and no more than is required. When someone has been called and comes to you for the first step towards Jesus, I hope the Spirit of Jesus guides you with His love to take their hand and transfer it to His.

[1] The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, his utterance. This man declared to Ithiel--to Ithiel and Ucal: [2] Surely I am more stupid than any man, And do not have the understanding of a man. [3] I neither learned wisdom Nor have knowledge of the Holy One. [4] Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know? - Proverbs 30:1-4 NKJV

[14] Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. ... [16] But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. ... [23] But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. ... [26] and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. - 2 Timothy 2:14, 16, 23, 26 NKJV

 

[ozso]

We can leave His fold. And some will. We cannot even predict our own perseverance, and that's why were exhorted and warned to persevere, to strive, to be vigilant, to be holy, to put to death the deeds of the flesh, to love, to obey, etc, with eternal life (salvation) at stake.

Are you saying we need perservere enough to fight off apostasy?

 

[ozso]

We can leave His fold. And some will. We cannot even predict our own perseverance, and that's why were exhorted and warned to persevere, to strive, to be vigilant, to be holy, to put to death the deeds of the flesh, to love, to obey, etc, with eternal life (salvation) at stake.

What seems to get left out of this is Jesus saying that he will go after the one who leaves the fold and bring him back Luke 15:3-6

 

[d taylor]

In any of the ancient churches, whether in the east or the west along with the early fathers, Christ is the center of it all. Without Him we don't even know God, a God truly worth knowing, believing in, hoping in, and loving.

It is not who is at the center. It is about what churches have stated a person must do to get to the Person at the center and that is along list of actions, depending on which church and what they believe.


...My belief is the belief taught by The Gospel of John, (Jesus, Peter, John, Mark, Luke, Paul, etc..).
Belief in Jesus gets the person back to God, nothing else is required. Not baptism, not repentance, not confession, not obedience, not saying a prayer, not loving God, etc....

...Now once back to God by belief in Jesus, the now born again child of God needs actions pleasing to God to have and stay in a right relationship (child to Father) with God (Jesus,Father,Holy Spirit).

...If the believers actions go worldly the believer gets out of harmony with God (their Father) and may end up looking more like an unbeliever than a believer. Depends on how far away from a relationship with God they stray. They may even identify as an unbeliever, even an atheist.

...But in God's eyes they never stop being a child, so God may discipline this straying child, God may even take their earthly life. Ending their chance at gaining any more eternal rewards and they may suffer loss at the believers judgment for rewards at the Bema Seat Judgment (The judgment seat of Christ) of believers.

 

[fhansen]

Are you saying we need perservere enough to fight off apostasy?

We need perseverance to remain in Him.

 

[fhansen]

What seems to get left out of this is Jesus saying that he will go after the one who leaves the fold and bring him back Luke 15:3-6

God is always working to bring one into the fold-or bring one back if they leave; He wants none to perish (2 Pet 3:9). But if we understand correctly...some will. Again, He does not force us to comply.